CCS upgrade for older Focus Electrics

[Texas FFE]

Now that the 2017 model is out we know what parts are needed to give the Focus Electric CCS fast charging capabilities. Ford should come out with a CCS conversation kit, including fender replacement, for older FFEs or at the very least a service bulletin explaining how to use the 2017 model parts to add CCS charging capabilities to older FFEs.

 

[Pearl]

doubtful

 

[awefulspeller]

TexasFFE, I'm with you brother. Ford should get with the program. Offer upgrades to existing customers for their existing vehicles. Just like in video games. If Ford did that, and made a nice website to compliment...they would see a 1000% increase in webpage visits. Once upgrades are available, those details should be pushed to the car's screen to remind the customer of his/her options. Ford is such followers, only reason they invested in 'electrified vehicles' is because all the other car companies were blowing them out of the water. WAKE UP CALL, you're too late! Need to figure out something else. Vehicle upgrades.

Telsa has the right idea and is why I will make the switch. Tesla is American, just like Ford. Thank god. I know in 5 years I can upgrade my Telsa instead of having to buy an entire new vehicle. Most vehicles owners don't need a new vehicle frame, seats, motor, etc at 5 years...but would be interested in purchasing electrical components...with a warranty. Increase service products. Ford will most likely take the course of action of least resistance, increasing immediate profits by not changing anything. This guarantees management ability to line their pockets with fat bonuses and have good performance evaluations now, hoping big government will bail them out again when they fail due to lack of change to customer demands.

Eventually, once the current political lobbyist and entwined senior leadership old farts die off and the younger generation customer's voice/ideas are heard...the good ol' boy system that has been supplying companies like Ford and their antiquated methods of doing business fade away, will do just that. Current Ford senior management can be summed up with one word = lackership.

 

[jmueller065]

hoping big government will bail them out again when they fail due to lack of change to customer demands.

Um you do realize that "big government" did not bail out Ford. Ford leveraged everything (including the name on the building) with loans (from banks and other creditors, not government) to cover their re-organization under Mulally. They have long since paid back those loans as well.

There is another American car company that is starting to produce a compelling 200+ mile range EV these days, you know the "big guys" on the block: GM and its Bolt. I'm waiting to see how it does vs the Model 3. I'm guessing the Bolt will sell really well (my own personal opinion based on the few Bolts I've seen on the road--its a really nice car).

(Yeah in the Detroit area Bolt's have been driving around now without manufacturer plates for a month or so--I'm guessing management leases.)

 

[triangles]

jmueller Actually ford did take government money in the form of ATVM loans of about 5 billion. Granted they didn't screw the taxpayers like GM and Chrysler. Ford used that money to retool factories. I'm not certain but I think the Michigan assembly plant where the FFE is made was one of them.

I don't like how Ford has been basically ignoring EV's but I don't blame them for what they are doing. If you're not making money or significantly less profit on a particular product then it would be bad business sense to promote it. Like it or not FFE owners are such a small group it doesn't pay Ford to cater to us. I think when ford figures out how to make money on their forthcoming model E series vehicles, it will only further push EV's mainstream.

I don't expect the Bolt to be much of a success for much of the same reason the FFE isnt. Magna basically presented the FFE to ford and said look here we built you an EV would you like to manufacture it? I don't see LG's roll in designing the Bolt as much different from Magna's in the FFE. The next 10 years will be interesting as more and better EV's become available. Even more interesting when they reach purchase price parity with gas cars.

 

[jmueller065]

jmueller Actually ford did take government money in the form of ATVM loans of about 5 billion. Granted they didn't screw the taxpayers like GM and Chrysler. Ford used that money to retool factories. I'm not certain but I think the Michigan assembly plant where the FFE is made was one of them.

Yup but they also repaid those loans as well...which is why they are called loans.

(I knew someone would bring that up...sigh).

I don't expect the Bolt to be much of a success for much of the same reason the FFE isnt. Magna basically presented the FFE to ford and said look here we built you an EV would you like to manufacture it? I don't see LG's roll in designing the Bolt as much different from Magna's in the FFE. The next 10 years will be interesting as more and better EV's become available. Even more interesting when they reach purchase price parity with gas cars.

Have to disagree here as well as GM is doing something Ford hasn't done much of for the FFE: Marketing. GM seems to be pushing the Bolt a bit more than Ford did with the FFE. Granted doing any marketing at all is more than Ford did for years.

I think Ford lost its EV way when Fields became CEO. Bill Ford had Alan Mullaly's ear a lot more than Mark Fields and Fields is more of a gearhead. I really think the FFE is Bill's baby and Fields decided to take a bit more control... Thus I'm pretty sure "losing its EV way" was entirely intentional and I bet they got the president they want so any gov't incentives for EVs will be gone now for at least 4 years...

 

[michael]

I have to agree with jmueller. The Focus is a sales failure because Ford makes no effort to sell it. And now it's obsolescent.

At the Los Angeles Auto Show this year, the FFE, together with Energi models was behind a wall, out of sight from the main display of ICE cars and trucks.

In the GM booth, the Volt and Bolt received prominent display. In addition to the ones on the sales floor, there was a separate stage with a Bolt and a Volt, and a huge video wall describing them. In fact, I would say that GM's EV sales effort was more prominent that any other manufacturer there except possibly BMW.

On another forum, a Los Angeles Chevy dealer reported that he has 144 Bolts allocated to him over the next few months, and that 100 have been pre-sold (or at least deposits placed). I think the Bolt will be a real success.

How does a 120 mile FFE compare with a 238 mile Bolt? Not too favorably IMO.

 

[campfamily]

The only thing the Focus has going for it is the price. With steep discounts from the dealers, and rebates from Ford, it's not unreasonable to expect to pay under $15,000 for a brand new FFE after the government giveaways. The Bolt is at least $12,000 more than that.

Having said that, I agree with jmueller as well....the Ford EV display at the LA Auto Show was a joke, whereas at the Chevrolet display, they had several folks there taking names and numbers of interested people, and offering test drives. I signed up, and I plan to go for a drive once my local dealer gets one. Who knows, maybe they'll give me enough for my FFE to make it worthwhile to trade.......

Keith

 

[fbitz777]

T

Telsa has the right idea and is why I will make the switch. Tesla is American, just like Ford. Thank god. I know in 5 years I can upgrade my Telsa instead of having to buy an entire new vehicle.

Not sure where you got that idea! a few weeks back Tesla added Autopilot AP 2.0 and made it clear that older cars can't be upgraded.
If you think this thread is "busy" you should get into the Tesla forums and see how many people are upset about not being able to upgrade.

I have a Tesla X on order for over 3 years and not convinced I actually want it at that high price ...might want to go to S, Model3 or Bolt.

Telsas should however last much longer than FFEs mostly because you'd do only 500 charge cycles to get to 100k miles vs 1500 on an FFE! On the plus side I can buy 4-5 FFEs for each Tesla X.

 

[jmueller065]

On another forum, a Los Angeles Chevy dealer reported that he has 144 Bolts allocated to him over the next few months, and that 100 have been pre-sold (or at least deposits placed).

Well there you go: One dealer from CA already has more orders for a Bolt than Ford's entire average monthly sales for the FFE! LOL

 

[awefulspeller]

Okay, so I was venting/complaining. I do love the FFE - overall great car, but just new technology.

 

[triangles]

Well there you go: One dealer from CA already has more orders for a Bolt than Ford's entire average monthly sales for the FFE! LOL

I will admit I may have let my bias against GM get the best of me. I guess I was also misinformed that the Bolt would only be available in CARB states. I was unaware there were any rolling around in MI. Also about the ATVM loan, I don't think that is a bad thing as long as it gets paid back. I didn't know they had paid it back already. I figured they'd still be paying on it. 5 billion is a lotta Benjamins!

 

[jmueller065]

Well looks like I spoke too soon. It would appear that Ford still owes the govt about $6 billion and is scheduled to have it all paid back by 2020.

Found a couple of articles about it on Forbes (but Forbes now is like a guest blog) here is one: http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2012/08/29/automakers-report-card-who-still-owes-taxpayers-money-the-answer-might-surprise-you/#72714a916a8c

And here is a green car reports article that briefly mentions it: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1091220_doe-reboots-advanced-auto-tech-loan-program-that-funded-ford-nissan-tesla-fisker

(I usually don't trust web sources unless I can find multiples with the same info all with independent sources--which made me suspicious of the Forbes articles.)

Ah this Inside EV's article has more information: http://insideevs.com/tesla-repays-entire-doe-loan-taxpayers-make-12-million-on-the-deal/

Ford – received $5.9 billion, and has since paid off about $450,000 and is making quarterly payments of $148 million (according to a SEC filing earlier this year). There loan will be paid off around June of 2022

Here is the DOE link about Ford's loan with no mention of payback: http://www.energy.gov/lpo/ford

 

[awefulspeller]

So yea. Here I am waiting until midnight-30 waiting for my Focus to finish charging at the local Nissan dealership iso I can drive home. No level 2 betweeen this town and my house (60 miles). Luckily there are a couple nice taverns in this town. Although this kind of adventure is the reason I purchased the vehicle in the first place...I'd rather have a 1 hour adventure instead of a 4 hour (minus driving time)

D.C. Fast charge capability for older focuses has a legit demand.

 

[Texas FFE]

Here it is, December 29, 2016, there are over 400 new 2016 Focus Electrics listed on AutoTrader.com and not a single 2017 model listed. Since Ford announced that the 2017 was going to have CCS charging many perspective FFE buyers are probably holding off until the 2017 model become available so they can get DC fast charging. These 2016 models might be a lot easier to move off of the lots if Ford made a CCS upgrade available.

 

[ATL-FFE]

This car is a hall pass for Ford to sell F-150's in California. It just so happens to make sense for a tiny number of people outside the CARB states too... but if I were Ford, I'd spend no more money than I absolutely had to on this car. What we're seeing is small, incremental features that keep it alive for another couple of years. I'd be shocked if the investment in the FFE has recouped 10% in revenue. This car is the definition of the cost of doing business.

However, I bet a week's worth of F-150 sales MORE than make up for it, and make it all worthwhile.

On the flip side, though -- is the aftermarket. A company that could reliably add quick charging and do battery swaps for the Leaf and FFE could be a nice niche -- likely in a CARB state or one where the government made it easy to go BEV. Georgia was a HUGE market for the Leaf because of the tax credit (now gone). LOTS of leased Leafs around here.

 

[EVA]

Have any 2017 with CCS shipped yet? My local dealer has a 2017 FFE, but it is a continuation of the 2012-2016 standard model. It doesn't have the 100 mile range or CCS.

I just happened to search for used FFEs in the Chicago area - there are a ton available. Way more than when I was looking a month ago.

Not so sure about how profitable that quick charging / battery changing business would be. It would take a lot of engineering to get something to work. And the labor involved in the swap is probably pretty darn big. Not sure anybody would pay the price to have that done. The battery alone would be pretty darn steep - probably north of $3,000 (you'd have to do a full battery swap).

Given $9,000 used cars that run great and have full capacity still left in them. Pretty hard to see that aftermarket battery business doing very well. Leafs might be a different story.

And think about the market, just the physical number of FFE's that were sold:
2012 680
2013 1,738
2014 1,964
2015 1,582
2016 800
Total = 6,764

There's no way in the world anybody is going to make aftermarket parts for that few cars. The Leaf and FFE would be totally different engineering, so there is no economy of scale between the two cars.

Yeah a totally dead idea for a business. For a hobby, maybe yes. To make money, no, never.

 

[Omen87]

And think about the market, just the physical number of FFE's that were sold:
2012 680
2013 1,738
2014 1,964
2015 1,582
2016 800
Total = 6,764

Didn't realize my 2012 was such a rare breed, lol

 

[Jamez]

Have any 2017 with CCS shipped yet? My local dealer has a 2017 FFE, but it is a continuation of the 2012-2016 standard model. It doesn't have the 100 mile range or CCS.

I'd love to see photos of the charge door open and closed on that 2016.99 car.

Which begs the question; what makes it a 2017 model? Because they "said" it was? Sure if the VIN has it classified as it being made at the end of November, that's a good start, but all the documentation says that the 2017's have the CCS and + range batteries. So it looks like we have to be wary of a few cars on the market that may be poorly labeled or entirely wrong (for pricing and insurance reasons too).

If you give me the dealership info, I'll gladly track this down.

 

[Jamez]

Didn't realize my 2012 was such a rare breed, lol

Rare? Count the Canadian ones!