Charging ettiquette vs battery thermal management

[sactorunner]

Hi all. I am a Leaf owner and trade commuting with a FFE owner. At the end of a 9 hour workday I walk out to the parking garage and find his car is still parked in the Level 2 parking space. Considering there is 4-hour signage in the spot, I offered to move his car for him at lunchtime, thinking he didn't have time to move the car. His response was that he was not willing to sacrifice his car's battery to hot weather and that no one could ticket him for doing-so. I would like to lightly suggest that he move to a Level 1 outlet but I first I would like to find some kind of convincing evidence that the thermal management system works on Level 1. Any suggestions?

 

[michael]

One question is how hot is it? I am finding that the TMS doesn't kick in until the battery reaches a much higher temperature than I originally expected. I also am finding that it heats up quite slowly unless the car is in direct sunlight.

Listen to the car, and see if the EVSE is showing any current draw. If the car is silent and no current being drawn, the TMS isn't doing anything.

 

[sactorunner]

Right now it's about 85 degrees but summers here can be 100-deg. And the car is parked outside in the sun.

 

[michael]

Yes, in that case the TMS is very likely to kick in. I understand the dilemma

I have a shared charging situation here, three sometimes four cars so I cannot possibly hog the charger all day. There is a single 6 kW EVSE but there's also a 220 outlet that nobody else uses, so I got a 220 V Turbo cord and leave myself hooked up when it's very hot. Nobody else has a portable 220 charger so I'm OK.

When the temperature is moderate, I just park in a shady spot. The TMS doesn't kick in anyhow so there's no benefit in plugging in. For what it's worth, if he can park in the shade he's probably better off than being plugged in with the sun beating down

 

[scoops]

The common consensus on this forum seems to be that the the FFE only does thermal management at L2 -- I've hear a quiet pump (presumably coolant) running when plugged into L1 so I'm not sure.

I have a question for you, Leaf owner: Can you disable the three LEDs on your dash while charging?

<scoops-

 

[scoops]

BTW, the FFE driver sounds like a total jag... Tell him that your car NEVER has thermal MGT and to quit being a selfish ****.

<scoops-

 

[sactorunner]

I was hoping TMS worked on 110V as that might have been a good option for him. Personally, I move my EV when it texts me and says it's done charging, which is generally a couple of hours after I arrive at work. When everyone else is walking out to go smoke, I move my car...probably healthier, haha.

And no, to my knowledge you cannot shut off the flashing blue lights on the Leaf.

 

[WattsUp]

The guy sounds like a real charmer. You can try to nicely suggest to him that any EV charging spot is for (duh) charging only, not thermal management.

I have another question for the Leaf owner: Can the Leaf plug locking mechanism be disabled? I recently came across a Leaf at a public charging station. It was done charging (according to its dash lights and the station), but I could not swap the plug to my Focus because it was "locked" in the Leaf. That seems like another "charming" move on the part of an EV owner. Are there "clueless" Leaf owners out there that don't realize the plug in locked in their car (because that feature is activated by default)? Or, does the owner have to explicitly enable jerk-, I mean, lock-mode?

 

[michael]

The guy sounds like a real charmer. You can try to nicely suggest to him that any EV charging spot is for (duh) charging only, not thermal management.

I have another question for the Leaf owner: Can the Leaf plug locking mechanism be disabled? I recently came across a Leaf at a public charging station. It was done charging (according to its dash lights and the station), but I could not swap the plug to my Focus because it was "locked" in the Leaf. That seems like another "charming" move on the part of an EV owner. Are there "clueless" Leaf owners out there that don't realize the plug in locked in their car (because that feature is activated by default)? Or, does the owner have to explicitly enable jerk-, I mean, lock-mode?

Yes, that's a very good point. I was reading on the RAV4 forum and some people there were cooking up all sorts of ways to lock the J1772 connector to their car. Apparently they were worried about some idiot unplugging them for fun. I mentioned that they were jeopardizing other EV people by locking.

The first thing I did when I got my Volt was to switch off the alarm-upon-unplug "feature"

 

[sactorunner]

I have another question for the Leaf owner: Can the Leaf plug locking mechanism be disabled?

Yes, there is a switch with "off", "auto" and "lock". Default is off. Auto releases the charge handle when the car is done charging and I believe lock keeps the j1772 handle locked to the car. I'm not sure why you would ever use the latter and I have never used any of the lock features.

buttons L to R are "charge timer override", the J1772 lock button, charge door release (also on keyfob) and steering wheel heat.

I have kindly suggested he move his car when it's done charging but he didn't seem interested. I've seen what I believe is a note left on the car, but I didn't ask about it. I will bring it up again, but that day is not today.

 

[GladeStorm]

Yes - the TMS runs on L1 and also (in a derated fashion) off the 12V battery when not plugged in. Some of us hardly ever plug into L2. [It's not as if the warning message says "It's hot outside; plug into an L2 outlet! - it just says plug it in]. The danger in leaving it unplugged is not so much damage to the HV battery, but that of depleting the 12V battery (if left unplugged in extreme temperatures for several days). -But I understand that a little bit of OCD can go long way ...

 

[sactorunner]

Thanks for the information.

What I really want in my next EV is a TMS and the ability to choose what % I want the car to charge to. The Leaf only offers 80% or 100%, unless you play with charge timers. I charge the Leaf 80% most of the time because my 40 mile RT commute does not necessitate 100%, and maintaining a full state of charge breaks-down a lithium battery quicker than maintaining a lower SOC. I would like the ability to leave the car plugged in at home (or on 110V at work) to keep the TMS active on our 100-degree days, but not have the car sitting at a full charge.

 

[michael]

Thanks for the information.

What I really want in my next EV is a TMS and the ability to choose what % I want the car to charge to. The Leaf only offers 80% or 100%, unless you play with charge timers. I charge the Leaf 80% most of the time because my 40 mile RT commute does not necessitate 100%, and maintaining a full state of charge breaks-down a lithium battery quicker than maintaining a lower SOC. I would like the ability to leave the car plugged in at home (or on 110V at work) to keep the TMS active on our 100-degree days, but not have the car sitting at a full charge.

I am totally in agreement. Every time I talk to Ford about the actual bugs in the MyFord software, I also beg them to provide an adjustable charge ceiling...and as you say, not just 100 or 80 (although I'd be happier with at least that choice) Tesla provides complete adjustability. Ironically, Nissan has removed the 80% option from the 2014 model. Since their previous EPA range rating was based on an average of the 80 and 100% values, they got a 10% boost in rating by removing this valuable option.

I also agree about the TMS. It's too early for me to report, but my initial tests with an OBD scanner suggest that the Ford TMS is not agressive...it seems to allow unexpectedly high battery temperatures before kicking in. By contrast, the Volt TMS has been shown to keep the battery temperature between 86 and 72 F

 

[sactorunner]

Ironically, Nissan has removed the 80% option from the 2014 model. Since their previous EPA range rating was based on an average of the 80 and 100% values, they got a 10% boost in rating by removing this valuable option.

Exactly. Nissan was losing out in sales because the uninformed incorrectly assumed the Leaf had less range than the competition. I would have preferred if Nissan would have left that feature intact on the 2014s and just had it set to 100% by default so they could still get their rating. The new VW E-Golf is advertising a 100-mile range, even though it only has a 0.2 kw larger battery than the Leaf and reduced aerodynamics, so Nissan had to play along.

I also agree about the TMS. It's too early for me to report, but my initial tests with an OBD scanner suggest that the Ford TMS is not agressive...it seems to allow unexpectedly high battery temperatures before kicking in. By contrast, the Volt TMS has been shown to keep the battery temperature between 86 and 72 F

Like the 80% issue, I can see the uninformed complaining about high electric bills and ghost loads if the TMS was more active. Ford probably picked the highest temperature they felt safe without fear of consumers complaining about the power consumption.

It's almost like these cars need an "advanced options" menu. Keep most features simple for the simpletons and offer an expanded menu with charge settings, TMS settings, charge timers, etc., for those that know how these cars work and want to enhance the experience.

 

[sactorunner]

I knew it wouldn't take long...the parking attendant approached us and said the car would be cited if it remained in the charge spot for more than 4 hours. It was embarrassing for me to be part of that conversation since I move my car as soon as it's done charging, but at the same time, I felt a little bit of "I told you so" therapy. Now that there is monetary interest in him moving his car, hopefully he will do-so.

I won't be commuting with him much longer, so it doesn't really matter if sees this post sometime down the road. The whole point for starting this thread was to keep his interests in mind and find an alternative for him.