Chevy Volt

[bobdavisnpf]

Chevy Volt is the other "big dog" in this space so far, to the extent an EREV to is in the same space as an EV.
Our 2012 Volt has 13 months and 16000 miles on it, getting 246mpg lifetime. I actually intend for that to be lower, since I plan to average one 400 mile overnight/weekend trip per month; so far we've only done 9 such trips in 13 months.

I just got interested in FFE after seeing one at a Seattle Sounders game promo. Might have gotten the FFE over the Volt if I'd known it was available in Jan 2012, when we ordered the Volt. We just sold our last Prius and planned to replace with a 2014 Volt, but now that I know FFE's available I'm more interested in Ford.

I think for a 2-car family an EV and an EREV would be our ideal combo. Nissan dealer is giving away 5 free ICE loaner days a year for my friend's lease; that makes the Leaf an EREV of sorts, although "extending the range" is less convenient when it involves going to a dealer and shifting all your stuff from one car to another.

ps - Starting a new thread since the last one is so old.

 

[michael]

Volt is currently my top choice for my second EV. 40 mile range gets me each way to and from work on electricity. Wife and daughter won't have to plan trips, can just "go"

Interior appointments definitely not up to the same standard as the FEV. Beige leather interior not available...they have combination of leather and ultra-suede in beige. Ground clearance is inadequate...scrapes all the time.

Still, it's almost an EV so unless something better comes up, it's next in my fleet. Bye-bye BMW 328....you are a great car but ICE is on the way out...

 

[michael]

Just sold my BMW today...shopping for Volt tomorrow! In a year, lease on Acura ends...no more ICE for me...ever!

 

[v_traveller]

Just sold my BMW today...shopping for Volt tomorrow! In a year, lease on Acura ends...no more ICE for me...ever!

Cool, Michael!!! Just got mine last Sunday, to replace my C230 Sport Sedan that was sold the week before... Here's my story on getting a Volt:

http://vinn.myevblog.com/2014/01/29/window-shopping/

To summarize, for a 36-month 10Kmi/yr lease:

My final deal was 35 payments of $244.68/mo+tax, $0 drive-off. That was for an el-strippo base model that was in stock at Valencia. They are the only ones that said they could use my GM employee discount (used to work for a GM subsidiary), although I don't think they really needed it nor ended up using it.

Keyes verbally quoted $301/mo+tax, $0 drive-off for one that had the leather package only. In transit, was due in by 2/7.

Rydell verbally quoted $302/mo+tax, $0 drive-off for one with the leather package and Safety Package 1, also in transit to arrive by 2/7. I was all set to go to Rydell to negotiate further in person (I think they had some room to work with), but decided I'd rather get the one in stock (too anxious!) and forego the leather (which, after one week, I really don't miss).

These dealers all did waaay better than the national deal on the Chevy website. Perhaps these #s might help you negotiate?

BTW, If you haven't seen the Keyes and Rydell postings on gm-volt.com, you might want to take a look.

Have fun! Hope this helps. Please let us know what you get!

 

[v_traveller]

I just got interested in FFE after seeing one at a Seattle Sounders game promo. Might have gotten the FFE over the Volt if I'd known it was available in Jan 2012, when we ordered the Volt. We just sold our last Prius and planned to replace with a 2014 Volt, but now that I know FFE's available I'm more interested in Ford.

I think for a 2-car family an EV and an EREV would be our ideal combo.

Nice to hear that there's some effort out there to promote the FFE! I totally agree with you on the EV/EREV combo... Last year when I got my FFE the Volt was the only other car worth really considering, a close second. Now I have the best of both worlds! Didn't really consider the Leaf since it was (and still is) more expensive to lease in SL trim than either the Volt or FFE. Also, Its battery isn't thermally managed like the Volt and FFE, so there are battery range/longevity issues that are being reported by current Leaf drivers.

After shopping for a Volt, I have to say that the FFE is quite the bargain... similarly optioned, the Volt seems to come out about $4K more than the FFE. And if you have to use a public EVSE that charges by the hour (I charge at work every day), the FFE will cost half as much to charge because it has a 6.6kW L2 charger, versus the Volt's 3.3kWh charger.

Please keep us posted on your quest!

 

[WattsUp]

And if you have to use a public EVSE that charges by the hour (I charge at work every day), the FFE will cost half as much to charge because it has a 6.6kW L2 charger, versus the Volt's 3.3kWh charger.!

Um, not quite. Charging costs also need to take in account the total energy required, not just the charging rate.

The Volt's battery's total energy storage capacity is 16 kWh, the FFE's is 23 kWh. I don't know what the usable capacity of the Volt's battery is, but the FFE's is about 85%; let's assume the Volt is similar. So, a full charge for the Volt will need to store (replenish) about 13.6 kWh of energy back into the battery, and for the FFE will need to store 19.5 kWh. However, typical charging efficiency is about 80%, so the Volt will actually require 17 kWh of energy, and the FFE will require 24.4 kWh, to reach a full charge from empty.

Thus we have the following:

At the 3.3 kW charging rate, the Volt will take just over 5 hours to charge, and the FFE will take about 7.3 hours. At the 6.6 kW rate, the FFE will take about 3.6 hours. So, assuming up to 6.6 kW is available from the given EVSE, the FFE can be fully charged about 25% faster than the Volt.

But... you also really need to factor in the car's capabilities (e.g., what it can do with that charge).

The FFE can go about 75 miles miles on a full charge. Whereas the Volt (in EV mode) can only go about 30 miles. So, with the Volt's 5 hour charge time, you get 6 miles per hour while charging, whereas with the FFE you get about 21 miles per hour. With regards to the actual range (the practical application of the energy stored in the battery at the rate it can be stored) we can say that the FFE actually charges at about 3.5 times the rate of the Volt.

In other words, if my battery is empty and I need to drive 21 miles with an FFE, I will need to charge for 1 hour. But, with a Volt, I will need to charge for 3.5 hours!

 

[v_traveller]

As you might imagine, I totally agree on your calculations and assumptions regarding the FFE.

However, based on the advertised range and L2 charge time of the Volt, as well as my experience during the 2 days last week that I drove mine to work, I cannot agree with the numbers you used above to characterize the Volt...

The total EV-only range on the Volt averages out to over 50 miles in my use case. That's much better than the advertised 38-mile range, but I have to go really slow on the freeway in the morning since I don't have HOV stickers for the Volt yet. I suspect once I get my HOV stickers that my average range will drop to the mid-40s.

Using L2 EVSE, the Volt charges up at about 10 miles/hour (using the advertised 38-mile range estimate), not at 6 miles/hour. This is in my experience and of others on gm-volt.com. After using 10.8 kWh, the battery is deemed fully "discharged" from an EV-only standpoint (there is some reserve for operating as a hybrid). Per GM's Volt website, the Volt needs about 4 hours on L2 to go from fully discharged to fully charged. On Friday I used up 10.1 kWh commuting from home to work and then going out to lunch, and it charged up on L2 in 3 hours, 50 minutes.

So, if the battery is "empty" on a Volt, and I need to drive 21 miles, and want to do it using no gas, I need to charge for 2 hours on L2, not 3.5 hours. That's about twice as long as the FFE (your estimation of 1 hour for the FFE to gain 21 miles on L2 sounds about right to me).

 

[WattsUp]

As you might imagine, I totally agree on your calculations and assumptions regarding the FFE.

However, based on the advertised range and L2 charge time of the Volt, as well as my experience during the 2 days last week that I drove mine to work, I cannot agree with the numbers you used above to characterize the Volt...

Thanks for the read-world info on the Volt. Admittedly my characterizations were a guess based on numbers for the Volt that I found on the web. (But wow... if you're getting 50 miles of EV range from your Volt, you must be a very conservative driver. My Volt friends would be jealous.)

In any case, my point with all the above was to simply explain (by way of example) that the "cost" charging is based on many factors, not just the charging rate. I wanted to make sure that people weren't led to believe that charging at 6.6 kW is somehow "simply" double the cost of charging at 3.3 kW, which of course it isn't.

 

[v_traveller]

wow... if you're getting 50 miles of EV range from your Volt, you must be a very conservative driver. My Volt friends would be jealous.

Ah, they have nothing to be jealous about... I am jealous of them because they probably don't have do deal with the crappy morning traffic that forces me to achieve such efficiency. It takes 1.5+ hours to cover 40 miles. Can't wait to get my HOV stickers! Seven more weeks and counting...

EDIT: I miscalculated, looks like I'm averaging about 45 miles of range per full charge on the Volt, not 50. On the way to work I got 56 miles of range on average, but going back home (uphill) I got 33.7 miles of range consistently.

I wanted to make sure that people weren't lead to believe that charging at 6.6 kW is somehow "simply" double the cost of charging at 3.3 kW, which of course it isn't.

My bad... what I was trying to convey is that the FFE, with its 6.6kW charger, costs half as much to charge per kWh than the Volt with its 3.3kW charger. With the L2 charger at work that charges $1/hr, it costs less per kWh to charge my FFE (about 17 cents/kWh) than it costs to charge my Volt per kWh (about 33 cents/kWh). You make a good point about how the platforms may differ in how much energy actually ends up in the battery and translates into miles of range.

 

[WattsUp]

With the L2 charger at work that charges $1/hr, it costs less per kWh to charge my FFE (about 17 cents/kWh) than it costs to charge my Volt per kWh (about 33 cents/kWh). You make a good point about how the platforms may differ in how much energy actually ends up in the battery and translates into miles of range.

Sure, since your cost to charge at work is affected by time (as it sounds like the station has a timed-based cost, regardless of the energy consumed) your observation is true (about a 6.6 kW rate "costing" half as much as 3.3 kW, assuming all other factors are equal).

However, not all station costs are time-based. Some station costs (perhaps more sensibly?) are based on the kWh consumed (regardless of the time spent). And, of course, some stations are free.

 

[michael]

My morning commute is just under 40 miles, almost all freeway. I borrowed a Volt and just made it to work on battery, The Volt has about 10.5 kWh usable, so economy is pretty much the same as the FFE.

I definitely prefer the idea of a pure electric, but my wife and daughter can't handle the risk of running out of power. At work, I usually charge at 3 kW anyway (using a Turbocord) so the FFE and Volt will both charge in the same amount of time.

Looks like Rydell is competitive with Keyes. I'm also going to give Bunnin a try.