First Range Challenge

[Gigi]

Up until now, the longest trip we have taken in "Effie" has been 40 miles. In winter temperatures and needing to use the heater, I have been hesitant to turn the car over to my wife for her 54 mile round trip commute. I don't want her to worry about range and I would like her to be able to use the climate control freely when she needs it without worrying about making it home.

This morning, my wife left on a planned trip that will stretch the range we have previously driven. Her first leg is 27 miles to her office for work. Second leg is 24 miles to my office to meet me and our kids to ride to a show in another car. Third leg is 13 miles home for a total of 64 miles. She left with a charge of 89 miles and a budget surplus of +25. Temperature was 56 degrees and it was raining. The car was pre-conditioned to 72 degrees. She is likely to need to use the defrost to keep the windshield clear, which will affect the budget surplus.

The trip my wife is on today is 10 miles longer than her daily commute. I hope that if Effie makes it home tonight with kWh to spare, my wife will feel fully confident in the car taking her on her regular 54 mile commute. We shall see.

1st Update: First leg, 27 miles to work completed. 53 miles range remaining. Budget surplus decreased by 9 miles to +16. I am guessing that when she turned the car off the heater was on, negatively affecting the range estimate. I'm curious to see the numbers when we meet after work this afternoon.

2nd Update: Second leg complete. 39 miles battery remaining with the final leg being only 13 miles to go. Budget surplus up to +26. My worries about range are fading away.

Last Update: Effie made it home with 23 miles to spare. The total trip was 61.3 miles, which is 3 miles less than what the navigation system predicted. 61 traveled + 23 surplus = 84 available range for today's driving and today's conditions. This is close to the 89 mile range she started with this morning and 8 miles more than the 76 mile range that is advertized.

My hope has been that my wife can easily make her 54 mile commute and do a couple of errands on the way home without worrying - or rather, without me worrying about her worrying about range. I think that today's trip should put both of our worries at rest. Now we can both sit back and just enjoy driving on electricity.

 

[jmueller065]

LOL I'd love to have that kind of range (and temperatures)! When I left for work this morning for my 30 mile round-trip commute:

• - It was 8F out
  - The car somehow thought that it did not need to precondition
  - Our roads somewhat resembled yours last week with a bunch of ice on them (over the weekend we got snow, then sleet, then rain, and then the temps dropped to 8F...this winter can end any time now)

I was mighty cold arriving at work this morning....brrrr

When it was warmer last fall and summer I would regularly make 60+ mile trips without requiring a charge.

 

[Gigi]

Our roads somewhat resembled yours last week with a bunch of ice on them (over the weekend we got snow, then sleet, then rain, and then the temps dropped to 8F...this winter can end any time now)

I'm glad you survived the roads. When I got home Tuesday, I went on Amazon right away and ordered chains for all the cars in the household. I hope to never have to use them.

We didn't get down to the single digits, but we were in the low teens. I'd like for my wife to be able to drive to work and back with heat or AC if she wants it and not have to bother with charging or worrying about making it home. I'm fine with her using the FFEnergi on the coldest days so that she doesn't have to worry about range and me drive the FFElectric for my shorter commute. I am anxious to see whether the FFElectric can perform as advertized. Hopefully, today will be a confidence builder.

 

[jstack6]

The FFE doesn't have a very efficient heater or Air conditioner. Our 2013 LEAF uses a heat pump that seems to use less than half the energy of the FFE. We heard if you cycle the heater on and off it will do better. Also using the car seat heaters for 1 person can also save energy.

When the new Tesla Gen III comes out with 200 mile range we won't have to struggle very often. Until then the FFE and LEAF are not bad and getting better.

 

[jmueller065]

The FFE doesn't have a very efficient heater or Air conditioner. Our 2013 LEAF uses a heat pump that seems to use less than half the energy of the FFE. We heard if you cycle the heater on and off it will do better. Also using the car seat heaters for 1 person can also save energy.

Actually the A/C in the FFE is very efficient and doesn't use much power at all. Ford developed a very efficient variable A/C compressor.

 

[WattsUp]

Also using the car seat heaters for 1 person can also save energy.

Both front seats have heaters.

Are you saying that using (both of) them for two people doesn't save energy? (versus the climate heater)

Or, are you referring to one very wide person?

 

[Gigi]

My wife completed her 56 mile commute today with a 27 mile surplus. She could have run the heater more, but with people driving crazy in the rain and backups behind accidents this evening, she started to worry about having enough range, so she cranked up the seat warmer and drove most of her drive without the heater.

It'll take a while yet for her to learn how much to trust the range estimate and how much of that she can expend on the heater. Whenever it gets cold enough that range becomes a question, we will just switch cars and she can drive the Energi for her commute and I can drive the FFE for my shorter commute.

I like the idea of saving money by driving on electricity, but the virtue of that only goes so far when being uncomfortably cold and shivering is involved.

 

[jmueller065]

My wife completed her 56 mile commute today with a 27 mile surplus. She could have run the heater more, but with people driving crazy in the rain and backups behind accidents this evening, she started to worry about having enough range, so she cranked up the seat warmer and drove most of her drive without the heater.

That is a common thing most new EV drivers have to get used to: traffic jams are good for EVs range. Since you're not moving as fast you're using less energy and are more efficient. In addition sitting there stopped doesn't burn any power at all.
I've noticed this affect on the "first snow days" when you get very little snow but everyone drives like there is a blizzard out. In these instances I've almost have been as efficient as summer!
Of course the exception to this is the heater: being stopped in traffic may cause you to run the heater longer using up precious electrons in the process. It's all part of the EV experience...

 

[WattsUp]

... she started to worry about having enough range, so she cranked up the seat warmer and drove most of her drive without the heater.

...
Of course the exception to this is the heater: being stopped in traffic may cause you to run the heater longer using up precious electrons in the process. It's all part of the EV experience...

I think that is exactly the reasoning Gigi was alluding to.

 

[Gigi]

... she started to worry about having enough range, so she cranked up the seat warmer and drove most of her drive without the heater.

...
After 5 and a half hours stuck in the Atlanta Snow Jam last week, she's a little worried about being stuck in a car stopped behind a wreak for a long period of time in cold temperatures.

 

[pjam3]

It's a nice toy car, but if you have small children, who in their right mind would go out in the cold and let their kid freeze ? An abusive parent maybe, but not a caring one. That's why a car that can't really use the heater is kind of pointless in most of the country. It's a nice second car, but on days where your kids need to get back/forth to events and school, nobody wants to be stuck in a freezing car and get frost bite because they can't use the heater.

I also notices the FFE is pretty much useless when it comes to charging devices. I tried to charge two different phones (LG G2 & a Moto X) and it really doesn't do a damn thing. I tried the USB, the DC, and so on and it just sucks. If you have a dead phone, you pretty much can't depend on the FFE to charge it. I could charge either phone in no time at home or in my other truck. In the FFE, it pretty much went up about 2 percent on a day where I spent about 4 hours in the car or charging the car at a grocery store.

I love the car and try to use it more than anything else, but it's always a mission and a worry to do anything. I've been getting around 75 miles on avg these days, but coming back home, I know I'm screwed if I don't have 20+ miles. I can go 1.5 miles to the WF, charge it, come back home and it'll be -10. I don't thin it's some huge incline or hill, but no matter which way I go, it'll be -10+ by the time I get home. You would figure going down the hill I'd get that back, but I don't. I'll get around +5 most of the time.

All I know is when I had to go to the airport the other week I jumped in my truck at the last minute, drove for 35 minutes, parked it, and flew off to San Jose for a project. There was no thought at all of using the FFE because I drove to the airport before and I had to stop off to charge it before I got there. They have a couple of solar charging parking spots at the one airport now, but I can't leave my car plugged in for a week. But that's the thing about the FFE and many of these 80 mile cars. It's rarely just a get up and go and not think about kind of car. Most of the time I don't car, but there are many people who do and many times where I need to get somewhere in a hurry and don't want to worry about if I'll make it or not. For me, it's always like driving on E in a gas car. That is stressful and annoying.

 

[WattsUp]

I also notices the FFE is pretty much useless when it comes to charging devices.

Your FFE must have some kind of USB problem. Mine charges my iPhone normally.

That said, keep in mind the USB (and 12V) port are not powered when you turn the car off. So, if you're trying to charge things while you're away from your car (parked, turned off), they won't charge.

You would figure going down the hill I'd get that back, but I don't. I'll get around +5 most of the time.

Status is not regeneration. When your Status goes up, your not necessarily getting anything "back". The math is simply working out differently.

Status is mainly based on the current average Wh/mi and the current SOC (although these are both indirectly affected by regeneration). The most likely reason for your status to go up is that your average Wh/mi decreased. But this doesn't necessarily mean that any energy has been "added back" to your battery.

For me, it's always like driving on E in a gas car. That is stressful and annoying.

Sounds like you chose the wrong car for your use case.

I use my FFE mainly to drive to work (which is 15 miles away) and do errands (within a 30 mile radius). For this use case, the car is pretty much "drive without thinking". It's not a toy, it's my real car. But, that's the use case I understood that I was addressing when making my choice.

I am not stressed and annoyed with my FFE. I love it!

 

[davideos]

I look forward to every chance I get to drive my FFE. When I first got it, I didn't use the heater or the AC much as for some reason I was trying to get as much distance as I could on the car. So unless I'm "trying something different", I just use the cabin temp controls as they are intended to be. I do fiddle with it a little bit to ensure too much energy isn't unnecessarily used. For instance, if I just want some outside air, I ensure the temp is down to 'LO' so the heater doesn't come on unnecessarily.

Currently, I don't top off the car anymore as a rule of thumb. I go 15mi to work on Monday and charge at 120v everyday for at least half the day and I don't charge at home. Sometimes I get more charge at work than energy expended to get to work. My goal is to keep this up through Friday without ever having to charge at home.

One weekend I did take the car out for a somewhat challenging road test. I had about 80mi to go so I kept in the slow lane on the FW driving behind the slowest vehicle. This kept me around 55MPH and I was able to stretch my miles a long way. I think I ended up with more than 10 miles to spare. I don't like driving this way, but at least it assures me that if it appears I'm going to miss my mark, and I'm driving *my* normal, I can take measures to increase my range.

If find the whole experience quite fun and enjoyable. I realize it isn't as convenient for everyone and I can only hope my arrangement lasts until I get an EV with longer range.

 

[pjam3]

I also notices the FFE is pretty much useless when it comes to charging devices.

Your FFE must have some kind of USB problem. Mine charges my iPhone normally.

That said, keep in mind the USB (and 12V) port are not powered when you turn the car off. So, if you're trying to charge things while you're away from your car (parked, turned off), they won't charge.

You would figure going down the hill I'd get that back, but I don't. I'll get around +5 most of the time.

Status is not regeneration. When your Status goes up, your not necessarily getting anything "back". The math is simply working out differently.

Status is mainly based on the current average Wh/mi and the current SOC (although these are both indirectly affected by regeneration). The most likely reason for your status to go up is that your average Wh/mi decreased. But this doesn't necessarily mean that any energy has been "added back" to your battery.

For me, it's always like driving on E in a gas car. That is stressful and annoying.

Sounds like you chose the wrong car for your use case.

I use my FFE mainly to drive to work (which is 15 miles away) and do errands (within a 30 mile radius). For this use case, the car is pretty much "drive without thinking". It's not a toy, it's my real car. But, that's the use case I understood that I was addressing when making my choice.

I am not stressed and annoyed with my FFE. I love it!

This is my point though, it's a toy car that costs a lot of money. If the only use for the car is about 30 miles a day, that is an expensive toy and to do anything else, you have another car. That's not going to get anybody buying it. It'll just get a bunch of us with extra funds to buy it.

I get annoyed and stressed because I try and max out as much as I can and I can't charge at home as I live in a condo that isn't putting in any charging stations or upgraded outdoor outlets. There was a guy who has a Tesla on order and we were talking to the Condo Association and developer of the complex and they thought it was interesting, but to much hassle and not enough usage. So not anytime soon.

It's not just the USB. It's also the DC outlet/would have been some old school lighter outlet back in the day, that doesn't really charge either phone. It takes forever to charge them and it's rather useless to even think if you have 5 percent on your phone, you'll get enough on some 30 minute drive that you'll be able to use said phone.

The FFE is a great car and I love it, but it's a great car, as you said, if you don't really use it that much. Which means you need another car that gets far more miles to do anything else. I really want the Electric car market to expand and become better, I'm not sold on a car that will easily handle your 15 mile commute to/from work.

In all honesty to me, a 15 mile commute is a bike commute, not really a car commute. There might be days it's cold or raining or you don't feel up to it, but in the grand scheme of things, 30 miles a day on a bike is far better than a FFE. Better for the environment, better for your health, and so on. I used to ride a bike up in the Bay Area about 25 miles a day to/from work and on weekends I would ride from San Jose up to San Fran and back. To me, you don't need a car to drive 15 miles to work.

 

[Richmond72]

I really don't understand why someone would buy an electric car without confirming they were able install a charger at their home..... and then blame the car for their range anxiety. If you were able to charge at home, I think you would enjoy your car more. If I were as miserable as you sound regarding owning your car, I would have to trade it in. No need to be that unhappy.

I don't mean to sound like as a$$, I just think life is too short to be unhappy with a car.

 

[jmueller065]

This is my point though, it's a toy car that costs a lot of money. If the only use for the car is about 30 miles a day, that is an expensive toy and to do anything else, you have another car. That's not going to get anybody buying it. It'll just get a bunch of us with extra funds to buy it.

My driving patterns have not changed since I got the FFE: Before the FFE I drove my F-350 which got to be too expensive for daily use so I leased a commuter car (our 2012 ICE Focus) then Ford had the great lease deals on the FFE last year so I handed over the ICE Focus to the wife and leased the FFE. For all 3 cars my daily driving was the same: weekday commute of about 30 miles followed by general running about in the evening for "stuff" (grocery store, my son's sporting activities, etc.). I wouldn't call my F-350, or the ICE Focus a toy car and they went the same distance as the FFE every day. In addition: The lease on the FFE is the about same monthly as the lease on the ICE Focus. (We went from spending over $500/month in gas for an Edge + F-350 to spending about $120 on gas and $30 on electricity monthly for the two Focuses.)

It's not just the USB. It's also the DC outlet/would have been some old school lighter outlet back in the day, that doesn't really charge either phone. It takes forever to charge them and it's rather useless to even think if you have 5 percent on your phone, you'll get enough on some 30 minute drive that you'll be able to use said phone.

I also have no issues charging my iPhone and iPad via the USB ports. In addition we have a 12V to USB converter plugged into the rear 12V outlet that my son uses to charge his iPhone as well: We've had no issues with that either.

In all honesty to me, a 15 mile commute is a bike commute, not really a car commute. There might be days it's cold or raining or you don't feel up to it, but in the grand scheme of things, 30 miles a day on a bike is far better than a FFE. Better for the environment, better for your health, and so on. I used to ride a bike up in the Bay Area about 25 miles a day to/from work and on weekends I would ride from San Jose up to San Fran and back. To me, you don't need a car to drive 15 miles to work.

That may be true in your area of the country, not here: For a good 6 months of the year there is no way you'd want to ride a bike or walk for 30 miles daily--especially now: The piles of snow everywhere are taller than the people walking around. (In fact on the news they keep warning people about riding a bike in the snow--apparently there are a few brave souls who try it and sometimes the end up being a hood ornament.)

I agree with Richmond72: Your biggest issue is simply that you can't get a Level 2 charger at home. Its a big difference when you know you'll wake up every day with a "full tank". Before I got our Level 2 at home I was always careful not to drive it more than about 40 miles because I knew at Level 1 it wouldn't be full in the morning.

 

[Gigi]

. . . I love the car and try to use it more than anything else, but it's always a mission and a worry to do anything . . . For me, it's always like driving on E in a gas car. That is stressful and annoying.

I'm sorry things aren't working out between you and your FFE, pjam3. Perhaps, the first thing a sales consultant should ask a prospective FFE buyer should be, "Will you be able to install a level 2 charging station at home?" If you were able to charge at home overnight and wake up in the morning with a full charge, I'll bet you would like your FFE a lot more.

My situation is not so difficult as yours and I don't have to worry about kids being bored when the car is charging or complaining when it's cold.

Being new to the FFElectric, my wife and I are trying to figure out our most comfortable balance among commuting distance (54 miles for her), outside temperature, heater use, and a reliable amount of surplus left in the evening for her to use for other purposes like grocery shopping, going to choir practice, visiting our adult children, etc. We like the idea of driving past gas stations, but neither of us is so committed to reducing our carbon footprint or saving money that we are willing to give up being comfortable temperature-wise when we drive.

When it is cold, our "plan B" is simple. I drive the FFElectric for my shorter commute and she drives our Fusion Energi in comfort for as far as she needs to go. Our "plan C" is also simple. If we both need more miles than the FFE will give in comfort, she drives the Fusion and I fire up my F-150. It sucks a lot of gas, but I need to run it every now and then anyway. I'm just in the process of figuring out the mileage and ambient temperature numbers that give us confidence and comfort. So far, our plan has been trouble free.

This morning, ambient temperature is down in the 20s. Rather than worry about the heater affecting her range, my wife just drove the Fusion Energi. Now I get to decide whether I drive the Electric or the truck. I've got 62 miles to go today. MFM tells me that I have 87 miles on the battery. If it were in the 50s or 60s outside, I would count on returning home with 15-25 miles to spare, but in this temperature, in order for me to be comfortable, I am going to run the heat. I am still in the process of learning how much that cuts into range. How close am I willing to cut it today? What will it be, FFE or F-150?

Update: It was just cold enough that I decided to take the F-150 this morning knowing that I could drive in comfort with no range worries. When I went out to the truck, I found the battery dead. This is what I get for parking a vehicle with an old battery for two weeks. Rather than just going with the FFE, I got a jump and headed off with stopping at Sam's Club for a new battery on my itinerary. If you're going to rely on a backup, it's a good idea to make sure it can start in cold weather!

 

[jdorff]

It's a nice toy car, but if you have small children, who in their right mind would go out in the cold and let their kid freeze ?

Hey now, I take my kids to preschool and kindergarten every weekday and we are perfectly warm and safe. The kids love "charge up car" and they love plugging it in and watching the ring glow.

 

[danholl]

Plus you can warm up the car while it is still plugged so it is nice and cozy when you get in. Morning temps in Rochester NY this year have mostly been near zero - nice to have a warm car to start out in.