Looking to buy - will the range work for me?

[breeves002]

I looked around this forum quite a bit and really didn't find that many threads on what people are getting real world range in specific driving scenarios.

Also when searching 'battery range' the forum tells you it's too generic and won't return results. What a worthless search feature.

My daily commute is 46 miles round trip. It's 90% highway at about 65 miles per hour. It gets very cold in the winter and very hot in the summer. I have access to a 120v/15a charging at the office and will install a 240v quick charger at home myself.

Do you think the FFE will work for me? Will I have plenty of range left even if its 0 degrees outside? If I get 50 miles of range I will have no issues. I will be able to plug in for 5-9 hours while at work to 120v so how much battery do you think I'll regain in that time?

Thanks! Contacted my local Ford dealer yesterday about ordering me one. The price is just unbeatable!

 

[NightHawk]

Should be fine, you should get ~75miles range except in cold weather which will depend on how much you use the heater.
I drive a 50mile round trip that is mostly freeway at 65mph+ and typically have 20+miles left range when I get home only charging at home. Air conditioning use doesn't reduce the range significantly in the summer. The range is affected most by how much uphill vs downhill elevation change there is on the driving route.

If you will have a 240V L2 charging station at home, use a Go Time to heat the car in the morning using external power before leaving.
With 120v charging at work, you should get about 4miles added range per hour.

Labor Day weekend is one of the best times to make a deal with Ford's added incentives this weekend and September gets good deals from dealers for the end of the quarter too.

 

[WattsUp]

With 120v charging at work, you should get about 4miles added range per hour.

Yes, 110V (Level 1) charging is more useful than people think. If you can charge all day at Level 1, expect to recover around 50% charge.

And, if you can do so reliably, this effectively increases commuter range of the FFE, under ideal conditions and assuming you always start fully charged, to around 113 miles round-trip (76 miles initial range + 38 miles added at work).

Extend this to 152 miles round-trip (76 x 2) if you reliably have access to Level 2 at work and can always fully charge before going home.

 

[breeves002]

Fantastic, thanks!

I'm going to a dealer very soon to see if I can get one. I live in St. Louis, MO and I'm pretty sure its going to be difficult for them to get one for me. We'll see though! I don't want a Leaf!

 

[michael]

Let me give you a very conservative (i.e. pessimistic) view, and I think that even from this perspective you would be fine. A 46 mile round trip commute should be very safe given your circumstances....

My commute is 90% freeway at 65-75 MPH, and my overall is 275 wH/mile. After two years and 42,000 miles, the useful capacity of my battery is down to 16.5 kWh during the summer, so my summer range is 60 miles (when the battery is cold, it will be somewhat less, can't tell you how much though...). Air conditioning is quite efficient so it doesn't make too much of a hit. And remember this is with a car that has seen a lot of miles...when new the range was greater.

Even if you assume only five charging hours at work, you should put in around 5 kWh, 18 miles or so during the summer, even with a well used battery. (again, I'm being deliberately conservative...you indicated even more time available)

The heater consumes about 6 kW when running full blast. So assuming your round trip commute takes an hour and the heater has to run a maximum the whole time just to keep you comfy, 6 kWh would be consumed.

Other people here who live in cold climates can tell you the hit to battery capacity from cold, but for the following, I'm going to wildly assume 25% reduction in battery capacity at very low temp

So by my reckoning, even:

When the car is older
If your driving consumption is like mine, 275 Wh/mile
When you need an hour of maximum heat
When you get only 5 hours of 110V charging at work
If the battery capacity is down by 25% simply by virtue of being cold

You would still make a 46 mile trip.

If you EVER found yourself getting home with uncomfortable reserves, mitigations are

Charge longer at work
Bundle up (or get a 12 V electric blanket) and reduce the heater

I think people here will say I'm being needlessly pessimistic, but I'm trying to anticipate the worst combination of factors. Having said that, I do think you are OK with an FFE.

 

[breeves002]

You know, I'd MUCH rather be conservative and on the safe side then not. Thanks a bunch for your input!

I figure I'll be able to make it back without charging at work, but hey - its free electricity!

I'll keep everyone posted on how buying one goes...

 

[damania]

Extreme weather excluded, I've learned as long as you don't go over 65mph on the freeway you will ALWAYS have the minimum advertised range of 76 miles. I've run my AC on low my whole trip and I never go drop below expected range any more.

 

[WattsUp]

Extreme weather excluded, I've learned as long as you don't go over 65mph on the freeway you will ALWAYS have the minimum advertised range of 76 miles.

Well, not always.. not if you're going up an incline on the freeway doing 65 mph the whole way.

Besides, the real measure is the energy consumption rate, not speed. So it might be more informative to say, if you keep your average Wh/mi around 250, then you will "always" achieve the advertised 76 mile range:

19 kWh usable energy / 76 miles range = 250 Wh/mi consumption rate

Sure, you can "spend" the 250 Wh/mi doing 65 mph on the freeway (no heat or A/C, on flat ground) and hopefully drive 76 miles. Or, you can spend the same 250 Wh/mi over the same 76 miles traveling at 45 mph with the heat blasting (just my guessimate, for illustration). Or, any number of other ways... so long as you limit energy consumption to 250 Wh/mi.

 

[jmueller065]

Or, you can spend the same 250 Wh/mi over the same 76 miles traveling at 45 mph with the heat blasting (just my guessimate, for illustration). Or, any number of other ways... so long as you limit energy consumption to 250 Wh/mi.

Not really LOL. With the heat blasting you'll be burning more like 350 - 400 Wh/mi even at 45 mph.

WattsUp example still stands though

 

[michael]

If you are going 45 mph and the heater is drawing 6 kW then the heater alone is using 133 Wh per mile.

That's why I didn't suggest to the original poster that to slow down was a mitigation. Usually it would be, the the resistive heater tends to defeat that in really cold weather. What I can't predict is whether the heater would or would not need to run full blast in his circumstances in order to maintain a comfortable cabin..

 

[breeves002]

Well as impossible as these are to find, it looks like it will probably have to be ordered. Fingers crossed it doesn't take 5 months...

That or I could buy a Focus ST

 

[triangles]

breeves002,
I live in northern Ohio. I got my FFE last Nov. In cold weather the worst I got was 47mi with 4 miles left on the guessometer. This was on a day it was 6F in the morning at the high got up to a whopping 12F. This was using the heated seats for warmth and only ran the heat on defrost intermittently to keep the windows clear. A lot of this was freeway similar to what you described. I can imagine a worse case scenario with more generous heat usage being about 40 miles. I've never charged off 120V aka L1 (Level 1) but I've read the battery thermal management system does not function on level 1 charging. The thermal management system kicks in to keep the battery between 50F and 95F (someone correct me if I am wrong, the temps are from memory). I don't know how the chemistry of the batteries in our car react to charging in cold temps but I have a lithium starter battery on my motorcycle and the battery becomes pretty useless below 32F, very difficult in single digits, and likely impossible to start at temps below 0F. I ride year round and tried to start it once at -13F I gave up after 5 minutes of trying because my fingers began to freeze.

Anyway back to the FFE and your situation. Some math to help give you an estimation of charging and how it applies to your situation:
When charging on L1 the max the FFE will charge at is 12A. This is 12A * 120V = 1,440W or 1.44kW.
If you can only charge for 5 hours the amount of useful charge you would get is 1.44kW * 5hr = 7.2kWh but you only get about 80-85% charge efficiency. In other words you only get about 80% usable of what you put in while charging. So, 7.2kWh * 0.80 = 5.76kWh is the amount of usable power you can put in the battery while charging 5 hours at work. Again looking at worst case scenario, we'll pick 400Wh/mi (normal winter power consumption for me is usually 350-380Wh/mi) to calculate how much range that will get you. 5.76kWh / 0.400kWh/mi = 14.4 miles.

Assuming it's really cold and you only get 40 miles on a charge plus the 14.4 miles charging for only 5 hours, you'll have plenty of reserve battery to get you home or do some errands on the way home. What is really nice in the winter is using the "GO times." This uses the your house's line power to preheat the car before you leave for work (car plugged into L2(240V) charge station). My commute is about 1/3 of yours and I preheat my car to 85F and crack the window to keep the windows from fogging and don't have to turn on the heat. If it's low teens or colder I use the heated seat. In the summer, moderate use of the AC will only take about 5 miles off your range. I haven't tried it but I'd imagine going 70-75mph with the AC cranked you'd be hard pressed to get less than 60 miles. You can follow my calculations to play other what if scenarios. For summer 250Wh/mi is reasonable for 60mph with AC on low. It takes some practice but the more you can restrain from fast acceleration, you can really increase your range. Also if you're cutting it close on your range, assuming it is safe to do so, slowing down to 60 instead of 65 will get you a few extra miles. Like others have already said range really drops off fast over 65mph. I hope some of this was useful

 

[triangles]

Well as impossible as these are to find, it looks like it will probably have to be ordered. Fingers crossed it doesn't take 5 months...

That or I could buy a Focus ST

If this year is anything like last year, late July was the last chance to order for the year. If you didn't get your order in then you had to wait till I think it was Feb. this year... Good luck I hope you can still order one.

 

[breeves002]

Any thoughts on buying one used?

$15,500 asking price with 9,600 miles for a 2014 at a dealer across the state. I have a F150 and car trailer to tow it back.

I like the look of the 2014 better anyways. Anything I should look out for if I buy it used? May go next week to test drive.

P.S. Thank you triangles, and all others. You have reassured my that my commute will be just fine to make round trip (even if I don't charge it).

 

[Elektra]

Any thoughts on buying one used?

$15,500 asking price with 9,600 miles for a 2014 at a dealer across the state. I have a F150 and car trailer to tow it back.

I like the look of the 2014 better anyways. Anything I should look out for if I buy it used? May go next week to test drive.

P.S. Thank you triangles, and all others. You have reassured my that my commute will be just fine to make round trip (even if I don't charge it).

Do you live in a state that has extra incentive other than the irs refund and you also qualify for the full irs refund? If so, buy new since it will cost about the same as the used one you are looking at.

 

[breeves002]

I am eligible for the 7500 Federal refund, that is it. I live in MO, and they don't have much love for EV's. Handful of leaf's and teslas and thats it in St. Louis!

I found out that this FFE I was looking at is a Ford Lemon buyback. It was bought back due to "Driver information systems - warning lights, gaugues, chimes". I called Ford and they said all original warranties are still good, including the 8 yr 100k mile battery warranty. They also include a 12mo/12k mile supplemental warranty on top of that from date of purchase.

I figure if I can get the dealer to drop the price down to 14000 or lower and the car seems to have no issues, I may buy it still. I will bring along FORScan to check on the battery. Anyone know the technical details I need to look for? I may take the 4 hour trek tomorrow to go look at it.

 

[damania]

I am eligible for the 7500 Federal refund, that is it. I live in MO, and they don't have much love for EV's. Handful of leaf's and teslas and thats it in St. Louis!

I found out that this FFE I was looking at is a Ford Lemon buyback. It was bought back due to "Driver information systems - warning lights, gaugues, chimes". I called Ford and they said all original warranties are still good, including the 8 yr 100k mile battery warranty. They also include a 12mo/12k mile supplemental warranty on top of that from date of purchase.

I figure if I can get the dealer to drop the price down to 14000 or lower and the car seems to have no issues, I may buy it still. I will bring along FORScan to check on the battery. Anyone know the technical details I need to look for? I may take the 4 hour trek tomorrow to go look at it.

some states even have incentives on used EVs

 

[scottt]

I am eligible for the 7500 Federal refund, that is it. I live in MO, and they don't have much love for EV's. Handful of leaf's and teslas and thats it in St. Louis!

I found out that this FFE I was looking at is a Ford Lemon buyback. It was bought back due to "Driver information systems - warning lights, gaugues, chimes". I called Ford and they said all original warranties are still good, including the 8 yr 100k mile battery warranty. They also include a 12mo/12k mile supplemental warranty on top of that from date of purchase.

I figure if I can get the dealer to drop the price down to 14000 or lower and the car seems to have no issues, I may buy it still. I will bring along FORScan to check on the battery. Anyone know the technical details I need to look for? I may take the 4 hour trek tomorrow to go look at it.

It should be a LOT cheaper than that. I paid $15,389.99 for my 2015 FFE, out the door, with no trade, and NO state incentive.

 

[breeves002]

I am eligible for the 7500 Federal refund, that is it. I live in MO, and they don't have much love for EV's. Handful of leaf's and teslas and thats it in St. Louis!

I found out that this FFE I was looking at is a Ford Lemon buyback. It was bought back due to "Driver information systems - warning lights, gaugues, chimes". I called Ford and they said all original warranties are still good, including the 8 yr 100k mile battery warranty. They also include a 12mo/12k mile supplemental warranty on top of that from date of purchase.

I figure if I can get the dealer to drop the price down to 14000 or lower and the car seems to have no issues, I may buy it still. I will bring along FORScan to check on the battery. Anyone know the technical details I need to look for? I may take the 4 hour trek tomorrow to go look at it.

It should be a LOT cheaper than that. I paid $15,389.99 for my 2015 FFE, out the door, with no trade, and NO state incentive.

How the heck did you get it that cheap brand new?! Thats crazy! Just insane!

I liked this one. The reason it was a lemon I discerned from the documentation was because the 12v battery died. FORScan showed all ok and the test drive was great. Still think leasing a new one may make more sense though.

 

[scottt]

I am eligible for the 7500 Federal refund, that is it. I live in MO, and they don't have much love for EV's. Handful of leaf's and teslas and thats it in St. Louis!

I found out that this FFE I was looking at is a Ford Lemon buyback. It was bought back due to "Driver information systems - warning lights, gaugues, chimes". I called Ford and they said all original warranties are still good, including the 8 yr 100k mile battery warranty. They also include a 12mo/12k mile supplemental warranty on top of that from date of purchase.

I figure if I can get the dealer to drop the price down to 14000 or lower and the car seems to have no issues, I may buy it still. I will bring along FORScan to check on the battery. Anyone know the technical details I need to look for? I may take the 4 hour trek tomorrow to go look at it.

It should be a LOT cheaper than that. I paid $15,389.99 for my 2015 FFE, out the door, with no trade, and NO state incentive.

How the heck did you get it that cheap brand new?! Thats crazy! Just insane!

I liked this one. The reason it was a lemon I discerned from the documentation was because the 12v battery died. FORScan showed all ok and the test drive was great. Still think leasing a new one may make more sense though.

PM me, more than happy to go over my purchase.

If you do lease, remember, don't put ANY money down (no cap cost reduction).