The FFE Sync and MyFord Mobile End will end before 1/1/17

[unplugged]

I was reading about how Verizon will be shutting down its 3G network in a few years. It has already begun "re-purposing" its 3G network for 4G use. http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/04/technology/mobile/verizon-killing-off-3g/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 I began to think about our AT&T account with the FFE. When will AT&T shut off the 2G system if Verizon is already begun to kill its 3G?

As many of you are aware, your MyFord Mobile and Sync accounts have a free subscription for five years:

"MyFord Mobile subscription complimentary for five years from vehicle sale date as recorded by the dealer. Subscription fees apply after five years. MyFord Mobile requires a compatible 2G independent cellular network. Evolving technology and cellular networks may affect future functionality."

Of course, this might as well be a lifetime subscription if the cellular network disappears. Ford uses AT&T as its exclusive cellular carrier for MyFord Mobile (there is no roaming). Our FFEs use the very archaic 2G network. AT&T has announced that it will kill its 2G network by end of 2016. http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/customer-migration-going-fine-att-prepares-2g-network-shutdown-year-end-201/2014-07-16?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Editor&utm_campaign=SocialMedia

This means that your Ford Sync, and MyFord Mobile, which includes charge time sync, charging information and energy usage, (including your MFM mobile phone apps for communicating with your FFE) will disappear by the end of 2016. So two years from now, it looks as if we won't have a Sync or MFM account to renew. The signal will be gone.

 

[michael]

Actually, isn't it even worse? According to the article, the 2G network is already halfway shut down.

I had the impression that SMS was used for a lot of the functions, but maybe this is wrong? Anyone know what part is SMS and what part is 2G?

And is the Edge function still working? Would that be a slow but at least functional backup to 2G?

 

[unplugged]

Actually, isn't it even worse? According to the article, the 2G network is already halfway shut down.

What happens is that carriers shutdown or re-purpose different wavelengths of the 2G network effectively narrowing the pipe of the available data stream. We will still have 2G data, but it will be available with less and less bandwidth.

I had the impression that SMS was used for a lot of the functions, but maybe this is wrong? Anyone know what part is SMS and what part is 2G?

Off the top of my head, I would say that that the SMS and 2G are one and the same. Both are data and both use the 2G network for communication.

And is the Edge function still working? Would that be a slow but at least functional backup to 2G?

No, the Edge will be retired as well as the rest of the GSM network at the end of 2016.

 

[jmueller065]

I'm very doubtful that we'll lose connectivity. The OEMs will typically sign contracts for such support for 10 years or more past the last date a car with said features is built.
AT&T terminating a piece that is under contract to Ford opens themselves up to big legal issues.

 

[EVA]

Tesla is 3G only - NO 4G. However, it actually does use wireless instead of cellular data if you have it available for updates (the wireless access point in the car is very strange, possibly older equipment - a lot of people had trouble connecting to their networks reliably).

The obsolete happened to On Star several years ago - the cellular devices in the cars were analog. GM warned customers of the impending doom and maybe even offered upgrades to certain systems. The day that cellular network was shut down, the On Star no longer functioned. There was nothing you could do. We had a 2002 Buick with On Star (I hated the system and never subscribed). Can't remember when it stopped working. But it was useless hardware in the car I wish I could have removed.

My guess - Ford will warn customers as the time approaches. Some cars will be able to upgrade to the new system and others will not. Those that won't, well that equipment will just stop working, nothing you can really do about it. No real reason to speculate or worry.

 

[davideos]

I'd like to see the FFE use, as an option, a WiFi connection or bluetooth as an alternative. It already has the ability to make these connections. Then when the cellular network changes, there will be a way to continue the services.

 

[unplugged]

I'm very doubtful that we'll lose connectivity. The OEMs will typically sign contracts for such support for 10 years or more past the last date a car with said features is built.
AT&T terminating a piece that is under contract to Ford opens themselves up to big legal issues.

All I know is that AT&T is unequivocally terminating its 2G system by the end of 2016. Fords use the 2G system. I doubt there is a way for Ford to economically put a 3G radio in the car, but I suppose that would be a way out. Otherwise, loss of connectivity is a given. There will be no 2G service by AT&T. That leaves T-Mobile, but I think they are also dismantling their 2G system. Verizon and Sprint would not be compatible.

But as to the issue of a 10 year contract; no cell provider would guarantee a system to work for 5 years, let alone 10. I haven't had a cell phone keep the same service in recent history for more than 4 years. The shortest had to have been Sprint's 4G Wimax service that lasted a bit more than 3 years before they scrapped it and went to 4G LTE.

So far, cell service has progressed from Analog (around 1985 for most purposes), to Digital 2G (used in both TDMA for Verizon and Sprint and GSM for AT&T and T-Moble) (2G implemented around 1990), which moved to 3G (around 2005) and now 4G LTE (first implemented around 2010) used by all 4 U.S. carriers. Continued use of 2G by any carrier would be a waste of needed bandwidth because the spectrum needs to be redeployed to handle the incredible expansion of smartphone digital use.

 

[unplugged]

However, it actually does use wireless instead of cellular data if you have it available for updates (the wireless access point in the car is very strange, possibly older equipment - a lot of people had trouble connecting to their networks reliably).

Do you perhaps have that reversed? (Or I don't understand the difference between "wireless" instead of "data." Aren't they one and the same?) You can't use voice for data, but you can use data for voice. In other words, we all know about VOIP and I can make Wi-Fi calls from my phone, using the VOIP (internet) for voice transmission, thus avoiding voice charges entirely. Using voice on 3G (or 2G for that matter) is essentially digitizing the voice call into data. But I can't get my head around the use of a voice network for data.

 

[unplugged]

I'd like to see the FFE use, as an option, a WiFi connection or bluetooth as an alternative. It already has the ability to make these connections. Then when the cellular network changes, there will be a way to continue the services.

That is an interesting proposition. The FFE can now broadcast Bluetooth to your phone and your phone can communicate via Bluetooth for download, like music files and your telephone directory. Could the whole thing be adjusted for more than music and files and include internet data? Hmm. I don't think so because I have never seen it done. But it is an interesting possibility.

As to using Wi-Fi for two-way data transmission, it is done quite often with our computers and media centers. Why can't Ford just bypass the cell radio and use the Wi-Fi to the phone? It is possible now, but you have to have a Wi-Fi tether or hotspot plan in order to implement adding another Wi-Fi to connect to the your phone's cellular service. (I think there are some hack programs that allow this tether for free.)

 

[davideos]

Tethering is what I had in mind, but if the smartphone had an app that communicated to the car via Bluetooth, then that wouldn't be tethering. In any event, changes would be needed by Ford to allow any such access...if only there were an interface guide into the sync system...then software could be developed by third parties that interfaces with it. How about an Android based system?

 

[hybridbear]

All I know is that AT&T is unequivocally terminating its 2G system by the end of 2016. Fords use the 2G system. I doubt there is a way for Ford to economically put a 3G radio in the car, but I suppose that would be a way out.

Recently the TCU in the Fusion Energi was replaced as part of a TSB for another issue. A side-effect of this is that Key Personalization no longer works. Only 2013 Energis that require a TCU replacement lose this feature. 2014+ Energis where the TCU is replaced do not have this issue. This issue was reported by the dealer to the MyFord Mobile team. Ford Corporate called me today and told me that at this time there is nothing they can do to fix this, but when the 3G modems are made available to the dealerships this will be fixed by installing a 3G modem in our car. They also said that additional features may be added to MyFord Mobile when the 3G modems are sent to dealers to install in the cars that came with a 2G modem. I pressed her for more info about the 3G modems & she said that she could not share any more details about the 3G modems with me at this time because Ford has not released details about them publicly.

So it appears that 3G modems are coming. The question now will be if they will be a cost option for owners, or if Ford will install them under warranty. The dealer told me that accessing the TCU in the Fusion Energi is an expensive job for Ford. It is located under the rear package shelf, between the two Sony speakers. When removing all the required moldings there are two that the dealer said cannot be reused. The parts cost over $400 combined to order new moldings. The dealership went through two new sets of these moldings for our Fusion Energi when trying to solve the missing key personalization issue.

 

[jeffand]

Why not just install a duel mode 3G/4G modem. It simple uses what signal is available at the time. This would extend out the life of the hardware longer. Ford should also offer at the time of the upgrade customer the option of extending the service. Ford could possible offer mobile hot spot service subscription, like Tesla does.

 

[hybridbear]

Who knows what they're doing or even how accurate the info I was given is... I'm just glad to hear that they're working on an updated TCU that will continue working once 2G goes the way of the Dodo...

 

[breeves002]

Why not just install a duel mode 3G/4G modem. It simple uses what signal is available at the time. This would extend out the life of the hardware longer. Ford should also offer at the time of the upgrade customer the option of extending the service. Ford could possible offer mobile hot spot service subscription, like Tesla does.

Glad to hear that its possible they will be giving us a new free modem.

The reason they don't put a 4g modem in is because they are crazy expensive. 3G modems are going to cost them at least $75 a piece. 4G modems are even more expensive. If they have to replace the entire TCU it will cost them a few hundred per car!

 

[scottt]

Any further update on this. Communication with my car used to work about 85% of the time. Now it's more like 10%.

 

[henryfocus]

You guys probably already did this, but just in case any new owners are reading this thread, you can have the car connect to your home or work WIFI if it is parked in range. This will give it better connectivity and also allow it to download system updates.

 

[WattsUp]

You guys probably already did this, but just in case any new owners are reading this thread, you can have the car connect to your home or work WIFI if it is parked in range. This will give it better connectivity and also allow it to download system updates.

No, this is not correct. The FFE does not use wi-fi to talk to the Ford servers. It always uses the cellular modem.

Also, the FFE cannot receive any kind of software update "over the air". MFT updates are always installed by USB drive or SD card, and updates to the drivetrain firmware are always installed by the dealer using specialized equipment.

Yes, you can set MFT up to "use" a wifi connection, but all this feature does is "re-broadcast" the connection inside the car, so passengers can share the connection on their devices. MFT doesn't even use the connection for anything itself. It is not a very useful feature (as most devices these days already have their own network connections).

And, yes, sometimes MFT can randomly reboot and display a screen with a bogus message about "system maintenance", but don't be fooled -- no system update has actually occurred. You get the exact same screen each and every time you simply pull and reset the MFT fuse. It's just the boot screen.

Also, be aware that the MFT software is completely unrelated to the car's drivetrain firmware. The MFT software only runs the infotainment system (the center screen) and is unimportant to the car's operation. Proof: You can pull the MFT fuse and still drive the car. Car works. Dash works. It's all run by other software (the real car firmware that only the dealer can update).

 

[Fraggle]

You guys probably already did this, but just in case any new owners are reading this thread, you can have the car connect to your home or work WIFI if it is parked in range. This will give it better connectivity and also allow it to download system updates.

No, this is not correct. The FFE does not use wi-fi to talk to the Ford servers. It always uses the cellular modem.

Also, the FFE cannot receive any kind of software update "over the air". MFT updates are always installed by USB drive or SD card, and updates to the drivetrain firmware are always installed by the dealer using specialized equipment.

Yes, you can set MFT up to "use" a wifi connection, but all this feature does is "re-broadcast" the connection inside the car, so passengers can share the connection on their devices. MFT doesn't even use the connection for anything itself. It is not a very useful feature (as most devices these days already have their own network connections).

Actually WattsUp, you are incorrect partially here. The 2016 Focus Electric with Sync 3 DOES connect to a WiFi network and IS able to download updates to the Sync system over it. (It says so in my manual, and under the "WiFi" settings in my car. I'm not sure if it can do MFM updates over it though, and that's what I'd like to find out, since when AT&T sunsets it's 2G network WiFi might be a partial replacement for me, since it is ubiquitous to where my car is usually parked.

 

[WattsUp]

Actually WattsUp, you are incorrect partially here. The 2016 Focus Electric with Sync 3 DOES connect to a WiFi network and IS able to download updates to the Sync system over it.

You are correct:

http://owner.ford.com/how-tos/sync-...tml?year=2016&model=Focus Electric&sync=sync3

"Sync 3" appears to be replacement for "Sync with MyFord Touch" (or what all refer to as "MFT") and runs the infotainment system in the 2016 and later FFEs.

I still maintain that the Sync 3 software really has nothing to do with "the car". It only runs the infotainment system, which can be completely powered-down (fuse pulled) and car would still drive normally. But, the ability to update over wi-fi is a nice improvement over the old USB/SD system.

Question remains, is the wi-fi connection used only by the Sync 3 infotainment system, or is it also used by the telematics unit for control over remote start, remote locking, retrieving car status, etc.. I would not be surprised if telemetry is still only carried by the modem. The other car systems really have nothing to do with Sync (or MFT).

 

[jmueller065]

Question remains, is the wi-fi connection used only by the Sync 3 infotainment system, or is it also used by the telematics unit for control over remote start, remote locking, retrieving car status, etc.. I would not be surprised if telemetry is still only carried by the modem. The other car systems really have nothing to do with Sync (or MFT).

You are correct: The WiFi used in Sync 3 is only used to update Sync 3--it is not used for any My Ford Mobile communications; that all still goes through the telematics module with the cellular modem. The Sync 3 infotainment unit is a drop in replacement for MFT; it even handles all the same network CAN messages that MFT did (I wonder if anyone has attempted replacing their MFT with a Sync 3 system?).

Note that MFT does have WiFi connectivity in that it can connect to WiFi but does nothing with it at all. You can plug in a USB cellular modem into MFT equipped cars and it will share a hotspot but that is the extent of MFT's WiFi abilities.