Thinking about the car, questions

[slingxshot]

Hello,

My wife's lease is going to end in several months. I am deciding on what car to get her. (She leases a Civic)
This car is 90% work to home, home to work car. Her round trip is about 38 miles. If she goes off route, she might add 5-10 miles, but 90% of the time she doesn't do that.

My concern and questions.

What typical range does the car get in miles for a full charge?
How does winter conditions affect the car? Let's say 0 Degrees F. How much % does it affect?
Is this the right car for her as a commuter car?
Is the car safe?

Thanks!

 

[jmueller065]

Typical range varies based on weather, driving styles, etc. At best in the summer you could get 100 miles out of it if you drove it relatively slow speeds. At worst I've seen 50 miles in the dead of winter (<0F temps). The EPA rated range of 70 miles is a good rule of thumb to use.

You can get some distance out of the car in the winter if you're willing to go to some extremes (e.g. wear lots of winter cloths, don't run the heat, only use preconditioning). If you want to run the heater I'd use 40-50 miles as a rule of thumb around 0F.

The FFE is a perfect commuter car for a round trip commute of 38 miles (my round trip is 30 and I have a coworker who also has an FFE his round trip commute is 50).

The FFE is safer than the ICE Focus (I'm guessing you are asking because of the rather lengthy SSN topic on here. The reason for most of the SSN issues was corrected in a recall over a year ago.

 

[hybridbear]

The Focus Electric is a great car for commuting! I'd agree that ~50 miles is about the realistic range at 0F with the heat on. We had some days that were close to -10 F last winter and the FFE worked just fine. The heat keeps up pretty well in the cold.

 

[JTCalif]

Is this the right car for her as a commuter car?
Is the car safe?

Adding to other responses here:
Very good as a commuter car as it excels in stop-and-go traffic, and a single driver can use "diamond lanes" (HOV / meant for multi-occupant) in some states. Quick response to accelerator, to take advantage of openings. Good to at least 80 where you can safely speed.

Safety: 2015 window sticker shows 5 stars for Rollover (NHTSA), and IIHS gives it top rating for side, rear, and roof strength according to Edmunds.
According to http://www.safercar.gov, 2013 and 2014 FFE's were rated top (5 stars) in all 4 categories, by NHTSA. (Later years not rated, but Very little changes in FFE, year to year.)
Note that there is no fear of gasoline fumes catching on fire in a pure EV, anywhere. I read of people starting fires at gas. stations by use of cell phones, for example! I don't go near those.

 

[Abelgoddard]

Ditto to everyone here. My round trip is about 34, not counting driving to get lunch.

Cold weather is a problem. But, ever since I installed my level 2 charger, I breathe easy. There wasn't much cold weather left here in Texas when I got it installed, but the commute became a lot easier without worrying about any extra side trips. With only level 1, I used a heating blanket and gloves and coat and my range stayed pretty good because I rarely ran the heater.

Overall, I really love the FFE. In winter, I merely like it a lot, but in Spring and Summer and Fall, I love it.

 

[slingxshot]

50 miles with 38 mile commute, way too close for comfort. And Nissan Leaf, horrible safety. Anyone seen this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgxpGCib0PY

 

[JTCalif]

The Leaf is quite a different design, and got lower crash test ratings (according to safercar.gov).

 

[hybridbear]

50 miles with 38 mile commute, way too close for comfort.

I don't think you'd need to worry. 50 miles is a bare minimum range on days that are below 0 F all day. Where are you located? How cold does it really get in the winter?

I guess it really depends on what your motivation is. Our motivation is both to save money & to reduce our carbon footprint. We are willing to make little adjustments to our life to accomplish those goals. My parents are less willing to make adjustments & they don't get the maximum value out of their C-Max Energi. They are still saving money & using way less gas than before, but they aren't willing to make adjustments to their life in order to really minimize their gas use. After a year of driving the FFE there aren't really adjustments to be made, it's just second nature. There's more adjustment required to burn the least amount of gas possible in our Fusion Energi. With that car we are always cognizant of how many miles we'll be driving, speed & traffic conditions so that we don't run out of electric range.

 

[jmueller065]

50 miles with 38 mile commute, way too close for comfort.

Why? You don't think 12 miles of margin is enough?

12 Miles is quite the distance when you really think about it--its almost 1/2 of my commute.

If you or her have a smartphone download the iEV App: http://www.ievapp.com/ and drive around with it for a few weeks (you have to leave it running while you're driving around). The app will tell you if your driving style, distance, etc. are a good fit for an EV (you can pick which EV you are interested in and it will show you if it works for you).

I used it while I was waiting for my FFE to be built. It told me I had a greater margin than I had originally calculated (and once I got the car I found I had an even greater margin).

 

[NightHawk]

Perhaps a comparison in typical cold weather total miles range between different EV models that use a heat pump vs electric heater would be useful?

 

[slingxshot]

12 miles might seem a lot, but it means she won't able to go off route that much. Plus it will make her nervous.

The only reason I want an EV car is because its cheaper than gas. You don't have to ever make plans to go to a gas station. And the most important HOV lane.

I am not going to make my self or my wife struggle with 10 layers of clothe just to drive that extra mile.

 

[jmueller065]

12 miles might seem a lot, but it means she won't able to go off route that much. Plus it will make her nervous.

The only reason I want an EV car is because its cheaper than gas. You don't have to ever make plans to go to a gas station. And the most important HOV lane.

I am not going to make my self or my wife struggle with 10 layers of clothe just to drive that extra mile.

Then wait about 18 months and pick up a Chevy Bolt.

 

[brogult]

@Nighthawk

You'd need a lot of data at different temperatures. Heat pumps are great at 50F. At 0F they are worthless.

 

[slingxshot]

12 miles might seem a lot, but it means she won't able to go off route that much. Plus it will make her nervous.

The only reason I want an EV car is because its cheaper than gas. You don't have to ever make plans to go to a gas station. And the most important HOV lane.

I am not going to make my self or my wife struggle with 10 layers of clothe just to drive that extra mile.

Then wait about 18 months and pick up a Chevy Bolt.

Can't wait that long. Probably will go with a Hybrid. What hybrids you guys recommend?

 

[michael]

I strongly recommend a Volt. My family has the FFE (for me) and two Volts (wife and daughter). Many women don't want to deal with the uncertainty of an EV, and the Volt solves everything. Mine has about 40 mile all electric range (new upcoming 2016 models promise somewhat more) and then the automatically and seamlessly become hybrids

If your wife's commute is 40 miles, she will rarely use any gasoline, but if she wants to go 200 miles, no problem, she just goes.

In my opinion it is an easy choice to make.

 

[hybridbear]

Plus it will make her nervous.

Hahaha so true! My wife gets nervous when the FFE charge gets below half, even if she's only 5-10 miles from home! I don't get nervous unless my surplus gets below 5 miles.

I strongly recommend a Volt. My family has the FFE (for me) and two Volts (wife and daughter). Many women don't want to deal with the uncertainty of an EV, and the Volt solves everything. Mine has about 40 mile all electric range (new upcoming 2016 models promise somewhat more) and then the automatically and seamlessly become hybrids

If your wife's commute is 40 miles, she will rarely use any gasoline, but if she wants to go 200 miles, no problem, she just goes.

In my opinion it is an easy choice to make.

I agree! The Volt sounds like it would be a great fit! In the winter she would probably use gas every day because of using the heat, but in the summer should should be able to make it without using any gas at all. Some friends of ours have a 2013 Volt & they love it. He commutes about 25 miles one-way, but he has access to L2 charging in the ramp downtown so he makes his whole commute without using gas.

You could also look at the Ford Energi vehicles. They have less EV range, but some additional features that the first gen Volt lacks, such as:

• Adaptive Cruise Control
• Lane Keep Assist
• Memory Seats
• Power Seats
• Moonroof
• Preconditioning via the mobile app
• Location-based charging
• Rain sensing wipers
• Automatic high beams
• Driver coaching displays
• And more

We chose a Fusion Energi as our 2nd car because of how many things the Volt is lacking compared to the Ford Fusion Energi. We don't use any gas in the Fusion Energi except when taking trips that are over ~100 miles, since all our other driving is either EV in the Fusion or EV in the Focus. The additional features of the Fusion Energi were more important to us than the longer EV range of the Volt.

 

[slingxshot]

I hate the Volt for what it is, pretending to be an EV.. but is isn't.

My problem is that these companies are trying to sell gas cars. And they don't want to sell EVs so they they instead give us $hit.

1. They make almost all EVs look like $rap.
2. They make them way too small. Almost smart car category.
3. They give them low range
4. Ford for example doesn't even care about Ford Focus EV.
5. They don't care that Nissan Leaf fails in one crash safety category.
6. Chevy Bolt, may be with higher range, still looks like $hit.

Just my take on the EV issue. I am very frustrated.

 

[michael]

I hate the Volt for what it is, pretending to be an EV.. but is isn't.

My problem is that these companies are trying to sell gas cars. And they don't want to sell EVs so they they instead give us $hit.

1. They make almost all EVs look like $rap.
2. They make them way too small. Almost smart car category.
3. They give them low range
4. Ford for example doesn't even care about Ford Focus EV.
5. They don't care that Nissan Leaf fails in one crash safety category.
6. Chevy Bolt, may be with higher range, still looks like $hit.

Just my take on the EV issue. I am very frustrated.

I used to feel this way, but I have revised my feeling about the Volt since owning them in addition to the FFE.

The Volt isn't a little mouse car like the Smart, Spark, Fiat, etc. It isn't dorky "look at me I'm green" like Leaf or BMW.

The original Volt had OK all electric range, the new one is even better. Volt now has a 18.4 kWh battery (vs 23 for the FFE...The BMW has 18.8 kWh) so it's substantial. I absolutely hate the Plug In Prius with it's stupid little Double-A size battery and lawnmower size electric motor, think it's a travesty so people can get EV privileges without any meaningful EV range (or incentive to ever plug in for that matter). But Volt is quite capable...for 40-50 miles it is totally electric powered.

In several important ways, it's design is more advanced than the FFE. It has a more aggressive thermal management system (keeps the battery cooler). At high speeds it uses the generator as a second drive motor, decreasing motor speed and enhancing efficiency. And of course it can take trips that even a Tesla cannot.

As a steppingstone into a pure EV, the Volt allows many people to try plug in cars without feeling risk. I have "sold" perhaps 10 Volts to friends, but apart from my own FFE, I have only "sold" one other BEV (a RAV-4 EV). My wife would never, ever have accepted any BEV short of a Tesla, but she loves her Volt and advocates them to her friends. My daughter nearly ran out of charge late one night in my FFE (stupid GOM told her 30 miles left when nearly empty due to long downhill before reaching home). She would NEVER take the FFE out again but loves her Volt as well. Two of her friends now drive them as well based on her experience.

If your trade-off is a hybrid, there is little logic in rejecting a Volt. Consider getting one now, and a Bolt, Tesla 3, or long range Leaf when something like that becomes available in a few more years. If your wife has a 40 mile commute, she is likely to go months between gas fill-ups...for all practical purposes it is a "real" EV in her application.

Look at my stats, below. The only reason the Volts use more that a few pints of gas a month is because we take them on trips...Las Vegas, San Diego, Coachella, etc, trips that would be impractical in any EV short of a Tesla. In daily use, nearly 100% electric.

I agree, Ford has not followed through with electrification and I fault them for that. I have said before that if they would simply stuff a bunch of batteries in an FFE, I'd buy one in a second.

 

[JTCalif]

My problem is that these companies [...] don't want to sell EVs so they they instead give us $hit.
1. They make almost all EVs look like $rap.
2. They make them way too small. Almost smart car category.
3. They give them low range
4. Ford for example doesn't even care about Ford Focus EV.
[...] Just my take on the EV issue. I am very frustrated.

1~ Quite a few people like the look of the Focus, including ones "just looking."
2~ FFE is not small by my standards: seats 4 easily, and 5 if one of them is a bit slender. Handles a BIG load of groceries fine. Volt is an honest 4-seater, I read.
3~ We are getting 80 to 90 mi. range now (nice weather, mix of highway + side street speeds): that is more than enough for nearly all normal trips. Our gasoline 2nd car collects dust, most of the time.
4~ I agree about Ford corp., but dealers are more interested.

 

[michael]

My problem is that these companies [...] don't want to sell EVs so they they instead give us $hit.
1. They make almost all EVs look like $rap.
2. They make them way too small. Almost smart car category.
3. They give them low range
4. Ford for example doesn't even care about Ford Focus EV.
[...] Just my take on the EV issue. I am very frustrated.

1~ Quite a few people like the look of the Focus, including ones "just looking."
2~ FFE is not small by my standards: seats 4 easily, and 5 if one of them is a bit slender. Handles a BIG load of groceries fine. Volt is an honest 4-seater, I read.
3~ We are getting 80 to 90 mi. range now (nice weather, mix of highway + side street speeds): that is more than enough for nearly all normal trips. Our gasoline 2nd car collects dust, most of the time.
4~ I agree about Ford corp., but dealers are more interested.

I agree with JT especially on the first two points. The FFE is visually the same as a very popular (the Focus hatchback) and that's among the reasons I chose it...not making a statement, looks totally normal. In fact, once I was in EV area of the parking lot at work comparing my FFE with a Leaf owner. A woman came by and said: Is that an electric car? That's what I want, not one of those ugly ones...."

And while the back seat of the FFE is pretty small, it handles my daily needs (one passenger max, plus a bunch of "stuff") just fine. I really don't want a mouse car, but at the same time I think a Tesla Model S is too big for my taste.