Weighing costs... Is it worth it?

[jdeciccio]

So I am considering leasing-buying a FFE in hopes of saving money. I am trying to calculate everything and only want to jump if I will be saving money. Here is where I am at. I can get a lease at around $250 without anything down. I understand the electric bill will go up about a 3rd of what I pay for gas (is that correct?) which would be around $80/mo. I will get maybe $2500 for my truck and then I get the $7500 tax credit in Jan (Right?). I will opt out of getting a charging station for now and see how that goes.
I currently drive a 4 cyl. Ford Ranger that gets high 20's in mileage and I drive about 1400 Miles a month. That puts me at about $240 in gas. I have oil changes, brake changes, rust issues, and anything else unexpected coming up.
Is there anything I am missing when thinking of this. What do ya'll think about value? I am not necessarily thinking about total cost, but more of a monthly cost. I am hoping that eventually I will own it and not have payments and save a ton then- grant the batteries hold out.
Second, do ya'll try to save in your electric to cut costs? How do you curb that? I called my Electric company to see if they had any prorated system for electric vehicles and they said maybe in a couple years, but not yet.
Thanks for the input guys.

 

[Arthur]

3 tips for high temperatures:

1) If you don't need to charge it up all the way, every day, then don't. Letting the battery sit at high temperature AND high state of charge, for long periods, will reduce your battery life. If you only make short trips, charge it up twice a week, instead of every day. That way, your battery will spend a lot more time with less than 2/3 charge.

2) When you know you're going to be driving during the hottest time of day, always precondition the battery by plugging the car in (or doing a remote start, if you're in a parking lot, somewhere), maybe 10 - 15 minutes before you're going to leave. If you don't do this, the car might make you wait, anyway, while it does the precondition (after you start the car). Again, this is all in the interest of extending battery life. However, a hot battery will generally have a lower current allowed, which means that you'll have less power going up hills and get really poor regen going down hills.

3) Get a 240V charging station (Leviton EVB32-M5L). One hot day (by upstate New York standards), I was planning a long trip and wanted to leave with a full battery charge, but also wanted to precondition the battery (and cool off the cabin) before leaving. With only the 120V charging cord, I ended up drawing down my battery, by a few percent, and it would have taken forever to charge that last few percent back up, at 120V. With a good 240V charging station, you will never have this problem. You'll be able to start out fully charged and fully cooled and conditioned.

 

[timf]

If you lease, you don't get to claim the $7500 tax credit. It is already factored into your lease payment.

 

[EVA]

Money is one side of the equation. I'm not certain you do this to save money. Realistically if this was just a dollars and sense issue, you'd keep your truck and repair it - the thing is paid for and it makes a lot more sense to keep the old one and repair it over a new car payment.

The other side of the equation is stuff I never imagined I would love so much. I love driving this car. I have calmed down, drive better, and enjoy the ride much more than I ever did in any other car. It's incredible to me how much cars vibrate, especially when stopped. Electric cars do nothing when they are stopped - there's no noise, no vibration, nothing. I look forward to traffic now. I've also been told it is a pleasure to ride with me now, I used to throw people all over the car; not any more. I also look for surface streets as opposed to highways to go places. The view is so much better and interesting. The journey is part of the adventure, not something to just get me someplace.

My view was if this was somewhere near close to the same price as a gas car, I'm in. I chose to buy my car. With credits, Ford bonus money, 0% financing, Illinois rebate, and the $7500 federal tax credit; I was about even with the cost of my 2012 Ford Focus Titanium. It was a no brainer to me. Remember what somebody else posted here - this is a federal tax credit for a brand new car you purchase, not lease. Any state rebates are probably based on owning the car brand new, not leasing. Even if you buy, this is a tax credit - you get the money back as a refund when you file your taxes. It is highly likely your annual tax bill is over $7500 - remember this is your total tax bill, after you've counted all your deductions. Not the amount you might pay or get refunded when you file your taxes. If by some wild chance you have enough deductions to have less than $7500 in total taxes, you won't use the full credit. Just remember - this is advice from somebody over the internet - not a tax professional.

Now add in, you never have to go to a gas station. Think of the inconvenience that is. You plug in at home, where you park your car - how simple is that? I'm never going to change the oil, have a tune up, and all the other nonsense I have to do with a gas engine. I'm never going to waste my time with that nonsense. I'll need to rotate tires, maybe change the brakes someday, and change the coolant at 100,000 miles.

Notice I never even said anything about the environment. Factor that last bit in, and it's hard to see a why not buying an electric.

Range is something to think about - 70 miles or thereabout is not huge. That works great for commuting and short trips. It doesn't work when you have a 3 or 4 hour drive ahead of you 200 miles away. The solution, rent a car for those trips. That's my reasoning behind why I think a hybrid is a bad idea. In a hybrid, I'm hauling around a gas engine, gasoline, and all the maintenance for the times when I want to go farther. Seems like a silly thing to do for the 10% of the time I'd want to go farther.

Sorry for the long answer. You can probably tell, I'm just a little bit passionate about how much I love this car. My entire family is so sad that the car was in an accident and will be a while before it is repaired or replaced. We all miss it almost like a family member. Yeah, you might not get that far, but we do love this car.

 

[dmen]

Is there anything I am missing when thinking of this. What do ya'll think about value? I am not necessarily thinking about total cost, but more of a monthly cost. I am hoping that eventually I will own it and not have payments and save a ton then- grant the batteries hold out.
Second, do ya'll try to save in your electric to cut costs? How do you curb that? I called my Electric company to see if they had any prorated system for electric vehicles and they said maybe in a couple years, but not yet.
Thanks for the input guys.

Thoughts:
- 1400 miles a month at EPA's efficiency estimate (you'll easily beat those numbers outside of freezing temps) equals 450 kWh a month. The cost of fuel will depend on your utility rates. For me, that would cost $45. Yours could be half that, or could be 3 times that.

- If your electricity costs are like mine ($0.10/kWh), then your gas savings and trade in will cover the lease payments completely with $500 still in your pocket after a 36 month lease. And you'll save whatever you would have spent on the truck's maintenance. You didn't mention any money due at signing?

- you should really consider a level 2 home charger. Many drivers who have experienced the Stop Safely Now stall-outs have charged mostly on level 1. We know the battery thermal mgmt system doesnt work well with level 1 charging. Plus, you can get one for ~$600 I think. A bit more than you have left from trade-in, but many states pay back part of home EVSE install.

- purchase calculations are harder for me to guess. If you get the full fed credit and trade-in, car costs you $30k plus tax. Any state credit/ rebate? If you drive it for 10 years, it costs you $250 per month assuming state credit cancels out sales tax. Plus electricity, say $300/ mo. If you think maintenance on your truck ends up more than $60 a month average, then owning will be cheaper. Or if you assume gas will cost significantly more in a few years while electricity will rise more modestly, the numbers would look better for purchase.

- if it's purely financial for you, be sure to check insurance rates in your area. I've seen some mention of rates significantly higher on FFE/EVs for no good reason.

- again, if purely financial, are there any free public chargers in your area? You could save some on your bill by working these into your commute or weekend routines.

 

[WattsUp]

- again, if purely financial, are there any free public chargers in your area? You could save some on your bill by working these into your commute or weekend routines.

And/or also if your employer provides, or can be persuaded to provide, free charging at work.

 

[v_traveller]

jdeciccio - to help calculate your FFE electricity vs. Ranger fuel cost savings, try this:

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/calc/

 

[jdeciccio]

Thank you all for the advice.
For the lease, I wouldn't be putting anything down.
I would love a charging station, but don't know if I can do it right away. I am working on getting my work to cover the charge there. Wisconsin doesn't seem to have any deductions/credits. But I am going to continue working with my electric company to see if I could get some sort of break- as a test subject or something like that.
I think the car is coming in this weekend for me to test drive.

Are there ways that you are saving on electricity? I am starting to get into good habits with lights, unplugging things not in use, and using a fan over air if possible. Any more ideas?

 

[Jasper7821]

Let me tell you my reason for getting the car. Putting aside all the SSN issues I've had and now the windshield problem, I still think its a great car.

I calculated everything out and it pretty much worked out to be a free car and cash in my pocket.
I got a 2013 titanium with leather and paid $500 down and $340 a month out the door for 36 months. I also got 15k miles a year which you will also need at the 1,400 miles you do.
I had a 2012 BMW 325 and my tags were $550 a year.My gas was about $2.500 a year. And my insurance was $600 more a year.
The FFE registration is only $30 a year.

I bought a Clipper Creek LCS-25 level 2 charging station for $500. I strongly suggest just putting one on your credit card if you don't have the cash. Trust me, you'll want it.
I got a 3 pin dryer plug put on the end and in the garage I installed a 3 pin receptacle. And this station is only a few pounds and tiny so it's fully portable.
I got my work to install a outdoor box and the 3 pin receptacle alongside one of the buildings on a concrete pad and now I charge at work for free and I have my own private parking spot.

Even in the beginning I charged at home and the electric calculated out to only about $40 a month extra.

I drive 75 miles a day round trip to work and I have enough to make it and not have to charge at home.

Any way you look at it the electric Focus will put cash in your pocket. And that's only because of the price they are selling them for. Now take a Tesla on the other hand and after 3 years I'm sure you'll be paying less for a gas car.

And lastly, the quietness of an electric car is amazing. And the regeneration is awesome. My 75 mile a day commute is 30 miles street and the rest freeway. So on my 10 mile street drive to the freeway I only use a out 1 mile or so because of the regeneration.

I live in the burning hot desert and my car sits outside at work all day sometimes in the 110 degree heat and my mileage only goes down a mile or 2 from the heat.

 

[WattsUp]

And the regeneration is awesome. My 75 mile a day commute is 30 miles street and the rest freeway. So on my 10 mile street drive to the freeway I only use a out 1 mile or so because of the regeneration.

I agree that the FFE is great, and has nice regeneration, but what you're describing is just the change in the running budget reflected in the status number, not "regeneration" of 9 miles worth of range during a 10 mile drive.

What's much more likely going on is that, when you drive away in the morning, the car (due to your freeway driving the day before) is starting you out with a smaller budget than your slower 10-mile surface street drive then appears to be consuming, so the predicted range is adjusted to reflect the lower energy usage per mile, and the status number naturally goes up. But, that's not "regen" happening. And, I'm sure the status number starts to go back down after you hit the freeway. Again, that's just the running budget being adjusted to reflect the higher energy usage per mile.

See here:
http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1343

Also, at the end of any trip, right after you turn the car off, you can always check the actual number of regenerated miles in the summary displayed on the left side of the dash. The number of miles from regen will usually be quite small and will almost always have nothing to do with the status number. It they ever do match, it's just coincidence.

 

[jdeciccio]

I got my work to cover charging costs and I get a personal parking space because of it . Now I'm just waiting on my pop to locate one for me. We missed two "ice storm" colored FFE's and so I am beginning to become more relaxed about the color. As for overall cost, the only price increase at this point is ins. and that will comp for what I pay in oil changes every other month and other maintenance. The gas vs. lease price are almost an exact match.
Thanks all for your time and advice. Let's hope it works.

 

[wizeguy]

Never mind mister late to the party guy. "I drive about 1400 Miles a month."

I'd think that would put you out on leasing. Aren't most leases a lot less then that? 16,800 miles a year.