2018 FFE Wrench codes and battery capacity loss

[hoprocket]

I have a 2018 FFE that recently threw a bunch of codes and has had a significant drop in battery capacity. I'm hoping to get some help with diagnosis and opinions if fixable of if car is a lost cause. I love the car and would like to keep it as long as possible.

A couple months ago I noticed the high voltage contactors clicking on and off, repeatedly and constantly. I unplugged the charger, trickle charged the 12V battery and the problem seemed to go away. I didn't think much of it at the time, but I later pulled the code U0100: BECM lost communication with ECM/PCM. Seems like the beginning of the end. After this event the guess-o-meter seemed off (low) and I noticed regen often didn't work as usual. At the time battery voltage was: HEV_BAT_VAR_V: 0.04 V, HEV_BAT_MIN_V: 4.05 V

Just last week the wrench light came on with the following codes: P0BBE - Hybrid/EV Battery Pack Voltage Variation, P0C30 - Hybrid/EV Battery Pack State of Charge High, P0A1F - Battery Energy Control Module 'A' Performance. Currently the battery voltages are HEV_BAT_VAR_V: 0.36 V and HEV_BAT_MIN_V: 3.94 V.

I performed a run down test a couple days ago which showed 17.1 kW battery capacity, which is about 40% loss if I calculate correctly. ETE currently shows just over 14 kW battery capacity in Forscan. It seems like every time I drive then charge it gets less and less. Has anybody seen these codes or this much capacity loss in a such a short amount of time? Is there any way to force re-balance the cells? What is control module "A"? Is the battery dead or dying? Should I take it into the Dealer? Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks

-Tim

 

[spirilis]

My 2017 is seeing substantial capacity loss fwiw, at 101K miles, but one thing I can offer is I noticed the Rebalance status is usually Disabled by Vehicle when the car's turned on, but midway through charging it's running - so I guess it rebalances while charging, and possibly at the end?

My battery was showing 0.17V variability earlier when driving it down, now while charging it's around 0.36V but I expect that to clean up once it's done charging & balancing.

I'm curious if the FORScan app for PC has more options than FORScan Lite for android, which is all I've used with mine so far.

 

[hoprocket]

Spirilis, I did see your other post. Our problems do sound similar. What is your battery capacity at? I'm also curious if your voltage variation recovers. I expected mine to get better with balancing, but it didn't. I haven't used FORScan Lite for android, but the options for the PC version seem pretty limited to me, so I'm guessing not significantly more functionality.

 

[Anti_Climax]

HEV_BAT_VAR_V: 0.36 V and HEV_BAT_MIN_V: 3.94 V.

This is the cause. You have one or more cells that are no longer charging/discharging correctly. Healthy cells will all stay very close in voltage and, since full and empty are dictated by any one cell hitting a voltage limit, that drift will prevent you from using charge left in other cells or prevent you from filling others all the way.

You'd likely have to pull the pack and replace at least one cell or module.

 

[scottt]

Spirilis, I did see your other post. Our problems do sound similar. What is your battery capacity at? I'm also curious if your voltage variation recovers. I expected mine to get better with balancing, but it didn't. I haven't used FORScan Lite for android, but the options for the PC version seem pretty limited to me, so I'm guessing not significantly more functionality.

Are you still under the 8 year battery warranty? If so, go directly to the dealer, do not pass go.

 

[hoprocket]

Are you still under the 8 year battery warranty? If so, go directly to the dealer, do not pass go.

Yes, under 8 years. I have an appointment at the dealership on Friday. I'll report back results.

 

[hoprocket]

So, apparently I didn't have an appointment today. I had a "check in" at which I described the problems and they took my info and told me it would be 2-3 weeks before they could even look at the car. I got in their system queue and have to bring it back when they call. The experience did not give me a warm fuzzy. When I got there and told the greeter I had an appointment to check a battery problem, she initially directed me to the 'quick lane' where they "do oil changes and replace batteries." When I told her that it wasn't that kind of battery she called the service manager and asked me "what kind of car is this?". I spoke with the service manager for a bit about the problem, and at one point he said "I've never seen one of these before." I suspect a long battle to get my battery fixed. The car drives normally other than the reduced range, so I guess I'll just keep driving until I can get it looked at.

 

[Heima]

In my 2017's charging history, it has twice done the contactors clicking at the end of level 1 charging. When I discovered it, it was about 24 hours after finishing charging, and I had not disconnected the EVSE. This happened with a first generation Fiat EVSE. I calculated the the contactors had clicked about 25,000 times, so I am now dreading an early end of life for them. Ugh. No, not using the Fiat EVSE anymore. Now using a Tesla UMC.

 

[scottt]

So, apparently I didn't have an appointment today. I had a "check in" at which I described the problems and they took my info and told me it would be 2-3 weeks before they could even look at the car. I got in their system queue and have to bring it back when they call. The experience did not give me a warm fuzzy. When I got there and told the greeter I had an appointment to check a battery problem, she initially directed me to the 'quick lane' where they "do oil changes and replace batteries." When I told her that it wasn't that kind of battery she called the service manager and asked me "what kind of car is this?". I spoke with the service manager for a bit about the problem, and at one point he said "I've never seen one of these before." I suspect a long battle to get my battery fixed. The car drives normally other than the reduced range, so I guess I'll just keep driving until I can get it looked at.

I get texts (from multiple Ford dealers) to bring my car in for an oil change. If I have time to kill, I stop in, pop the hood, and have them try to tell me where the oil goes.....

 

[Heima]

Better yet, pay for the oil change, and demand that they do it.
If they claim to have done it, then call in the local TV consumer advocate video crew, and have the dealership explain how they didn't commit fraud.
I bought my 2017 used from a Honda dealership. They still email me stuff that I need to bring my Ford in because it is seriously lacking its 50000 mile maintenance, or that they can provide me an extended warranty. Car only has 17,000 miles on it.
Just as the many mortgage lenders that are telling me that I need to refinance, and that they can get me a better rate.
Excuse my language, but I don't have a f&%king mortgage, @$$holes!

 

[Anti_Climax]

The number of mail pieces that are "regarding your loan with XXXX" after you refinance... Man.

 

[hoprocket]

I finally got the dealer to take a look at my car. The prognosis was not good. Surprise, surprise, it needs the HV battery replaced. I didn't hear about it from the dealer, actually. I got a call and an email from Ford corporate customer service. They gave me two options. 1) They will replace the battery under warranty. The replacement would be a refurbished battery and would take 10 to 12 days to install. The refurbished battery comes with a 2 year warranty. or 2) They offered to buy me out for $12.5k. A little bit of a low ball offer, but considering the current state of plummeting EV prices it could be, and will continue to get, worse. I'm considering taking it. What do you all think? Replace the battery or take the buy out? I have 7 days to decide.

 

[spirilis]

That's a hard one. Depends on how much else is wrong with the car I guess. Bushings, shocks, etc... all fixable but with what hassle..

I'm getting more interested in PHEVs nowadays, I'd probably take the buyout and look for a plug-in hybrid using it as a down payment. TBH I might be in that boat soon as I'm taking my 2017 in next week for wrench light/capacity loss (determined cell 25 is going bad- that will need HV battery swap)

 

[Heima]

I finally got the dealer to take a look at my car. The prognosis was not good. Surprise, surprise, it needs the HV battery replaced. I didn't hear about it from the dealer, actually. I got a call and an email from Ford corporate customer service. They gave me two options. 1) They will replace the battery under warranty. The replacement would be a refurbished battery and would take 10 to 12 days to install. The refurbished battery comes with a 2 year warranty. or 2) They offered to buy me out for $12.5k. A little bit of a low ball offer, but considering the current state of plummeting EV prices it could be, and will continue to get, worse. I'm considering taking it. What do you all think? Replace the battery or take the buy out? I have 7 days to decide.

I am thinking that most likely it would be a newly made battery, as there is no means of storing an HV battery this long, (since 2018) without it having degradation. And how much time is left on your battery warranty? If 3 years are left, then they are obligated to provide those 3 years of warranty. What if you asked for $15k buyout?

The reason for the buyout is because they do not want to have to deal with your car anymore. And who knows, after they buy you out, they may ask if you want to buy the car back. Of course under a salvage title.

So you could tell them, that you have been talking to a lawyer, and they have advised you that such options are not equitable, and that litigation might be necessary for Ford to provide a satisfactory solution. 7 days is insufficient time to make a determination of their offerings. Do not do this unless you have actually talked to a lawyer. lol

 

[scottt]

I finally got the dealer to take a look at my car. The prognosis was not good. Surprise, surprise, it needs the HV battery replaced. I didn't hear about it from the dealer, actually. I got a call and an email from Ford corporate customer service. They gave me two options. 1) They will replace the battery under warranty. The replacement would be a refurbished battery and would take 10 to 12 days to install. The refurbished battery comes with a 2 year warranty. or 2) They offered to buy me out for $12.5k. A little bit of a low ball offer, but considering the current state of plummeting EV prices it could be, and will continue to get, worse. I'm considering taking it. What do you all think? Replace the battery or take the buy out? I have 7 days to decide.

Try selling your car to Carvana, Vroom, etc. See how much they'll give you. Use that as a counter to Ford. I was getting $17k for my 2017 about 9 months ago, but supposedly used EV prices are dropping.

 

[hoprocket]

Thanks all for the feedback. Ford customer service used the terminology 'Final offer', so I doubt they'll negotiate. They also offered to replace the battery pack, which is really all they are obligated to do under warranty, so I'm not sure a Lawyer is warranted. After browsing new EV models and prices, and driving both the Mach-E and Ioniq 5, I'm now leaning toward having the FFE battery replaced. Sure, the newer cars are a nice, a little bigger, and a little quicker off the line, but at the end of the day I don't drive much and the FFE meets my low mileage commuting needs. $0 out of pocket to have the battery replaced is sounding better the more I think about it.

 

[hoprocket]

I pulled the trigger on the battery pack replacement. 7 to 10 days for the battery delivery and I expect another week or so for the dealership to get it scheduled and installed. So a couple weeks out.

 

[hoprocket]

So, I got the car back yesterday. Guess-o-meter was showing 130 miles when charged fully. I'm sure it won't go that far, but all seems well with the refurbished replacement battery pack. They even refilled and bled the coolant. I'm happy. Hopefully I can get another six years out of it this one!

 

[Heima]

Congrats!

 

[nate4surf]

I just got the wrench today. Not sure what the code is but I’ll take it in this weekend.