70 mile round trip commute... On the edge?

[jenjc]

Hello everyone,

I've rummaged around this helpful forum and learned the following with respect to extending range:

- Cold is bad, especially if you run the heater to keep warm.
- Bursts of speed and high speed is bad.
- Heavy traffic is good!
- Battery degradation is not really an issue.

So, my question is this.... Living in Atlanta with a 70 mile, NO-charge-at-work commute, am I expecting too much of the FFE to get to work and home again without turning more of my hair grey? The commute is 50/50 time-wise highway vs. surface streets. There is traffic.

The monetary incentives here in Georgia are so significant. But, I have a sinking feeling my commute is at the bleeding edge of realistic functionality at this point for current battery capability.

Your experienced thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[WattsUp]

So, my question is this.... Living in Atlanta with a 70 mile, NO-charge-at-work commute, am I expecting too much of the FFE to get to work and home again without turning more of my hair grey? The commute is 50/50 time-wise highway vs. surface streets. There is traffic.

Great job in digesting the basic considerations. You've got a pretty good picture of things.

I think you could make a 70-mile commute, provided you don't need to use heat very much (at all, probably), and are very careful with your driving patterns. (Using A/C should not eat into much the range, so you can be comfortable in the summer... but the winter may be a very different story.)

However, you will probably be routinely arriving at the end of your round-trip with single-digit range estimates remaining. It is possible you could get comfortable with this, once you get used to "making it" with only 5 miles, 2 miles, 1 mile (?!?) of range remaining all the time, but there may be very little margin of error (in case you need to take a little extra side trip certain days).

In short, I wouldn't "recommend" the FFE for your situation, but I don't necessarily want to outright discourage you... the FFE is a great car, and you might be able to make it work. I would be more eager to recommend if you had only a 50-, maybe even 60-, mile round-trip commute.

And now the inevitable questions and "what ifs".... So, are you definitely not able to charge at work? Even at Level 1 on a regular wall outlet? If you could (on a routine basis), then I would say definitely go for it.

 

[Bill]

{Post deleted by User}

 

[EVA]

You really did digest the site rather well!

Agree with others have said. The strange thing driving an electric car does to you - you start to notice things you'd never see. It is entirely possible there is a 110V outlet in your parking garage, or somewhere nearby, or one maintenance for your building might have. They are around in a lot of hidden places. And 110V charging while at work would give you plenty of range.

Just in case you can't find Plugshare:
http://www.plugshare.com/

Just enter Atlanta, GA in the search - there are 85 at first quick glance. No need to register at the site - you won't need to look up home addresses (that's about all registering gives you).

I'm thinking you have figured out we love the car.

One other thing the car does - it changes the way you do things. You might find a charging station at a library or someplace really interesting. Instead of hurrying home, you'll take your time and enjoy some quiet time for yourself. It could be a quality of life changer.

 

[WattsUp]

It is entirely possible there is a 110V outlet in your parking garage, or somewhere nearby, or one maintenance for your building might have. They are around in a lot of hidden places. And 110V charging while at work would give you plenty of range.

Just be sure it is okay to use such a "found" outlet. Don't buy the FFE "counting" on usage of such outlets, only to find out later that it rubs somebody the wrong way, or gets you in trouble. Those outlets belong to somebody who presumably pays the bill.

It never hurts to go through proper channels and ask, and you might find your employer is pro-EV or maybe at least intrigued. Call it a "trail program" and point out the positive, forward-looking impression it gives to employees and the community. If they are pro-EV, you might even suggest they install a special outlet (even just a regular 120V, or 240V if you're feeling ambitious) in a convenient and prominent (a painted "reserved for EV charging" spot) location for employees to use.

 

[Richmond72]

I think you can do it. But, I would take a test drive to prove it (let the windows down and run the heat for part of the drive to see what happens). Before I leased mine, I took a test drive and drove my work route to get a real idea of what the car can do. Here are my recommendations:

1. In winter, pre-heat before leaving. This will allow you to minimize heat use.
2. Park in the sun in the winter, this will minimize heater use in the afternoon.
3. Leave 5 mins early in the morning and go 5 MPH slower than you normally do (in the right lanes).
4. Summer will be fine, park in shade.
5. Find a charger nearby to your work or on the way home for emergency charges.

Good luck! Which area of the city are you coming from/going to for work?

 

[jenjc]

Thank you everyone for some good input!

110V possiblities: It was the answer to that question that drove me to this forum. It was "No" for safety reasons.

PlugShare: EVA, thanks for the link. This is very helpful information. There are plently of plugs on the way home.

Richmond: Nice summary of strategies. Pre-warming is possible. But on cold days it may be better if I leave the EV at home. We won't be getting rid of the car the EV would be replacing.

On the subject of cold... what is considered "cold" with respect to EV performance? Any time you want to run the defroster or heater?

For those with Atlanta geography knowledge, I live in East Cobb (north) and work near the airport.

 

[ElSupreme]

I'm in Atlanta as well. My round trip is 60 miles. And about ~60% clear interstate. Driving ~65mph maximum and I easily make the 60 miles with ~1/3 battery to spare.

I have a surface street route that cuts interstate to ~40% and cuts ~10 miles off my round trip. I can do this and still have 45 miles left when I make it home. Check some surface streets and see if you could cut some miles out of your commute. If you can on the really cold days you could take the shorter route.

But this is the summer. I know with the Model S winter brings out ~20% more energy usage. You won't be able to run heat, you could probably just deal with the seat heater. This isn't that bad if your car is garaged. If you are doing any stretches at 65mph you'll probably have to slow down. And you might want to look for a place (120VAC is more than fine) to plug in and get ~10 extra miles on those dozen or so sub-freezing commute days we get in Atlanta.

I have not done a winter in the FFE yet, but do have experience in the Model S. As for getting used to going to zero. It happens pretty easily over time. Here I am with less than 1% buffer on a 255 mile trip to my brother's house.

 

[hybridbear]

Hello everyone,

I've rummaged around this helpful forum and learned the following with respect to extending range:

- Cold is bad, especially if you run the heater to keep warm.
- Bursts of speed and high speed is bad.
- Heavy traffic is good!
- Battery degradation is not really an issue.

So, my question is this.... Living in Atlanta with a 70 mile, NO-charge-at-work commute, am I expecting too much of the FFE to get to work and home again without turning more of my hair grey? The commute is 50/50 time-wise highway vs. surface streets. There is traffic.

The monetary incentives here in Georgia are so significant. But, I have a sinking feeling my commute is at the bleeding edge of realistic functionality at this point for current battery capability.

Your experienced thoughts?

Thanks!

Have you considered other EVs with a slightly longer range? The i3 and Mercedes B-Class Electric both have slightly longer ranges (and higher price tags) which would probably alleviate any range anxiety you'd have.

I've done an 80 mile highway trip in the Focus with about 10 miles of range to spare. This was in the summer with no climate control use and speeds of 55-65 MPH. Someone on the Forum you can find my results.

 

[jenjc]

I would consider the Mercades if my pocket was deeper. They seem to be estimating close to a 100 mile range. The BMW range is similar to the FFE without the range extender. For me, part of the joy of an EV will be freedom from the burdens of a combustion engine. I wouldn't be interested in a range extender.

The FFE is right in my sweetspot partially because the price is right. Ford is offering some serious incentives which combined with the tax credits make it quite affordable. Plus, it's a very nice car.

Thanks for all your insight and suggestions. I'll pop back and let you know what we decide.

Range happy!

 

[hybridbear]

I would consider the Mercades if my pocket was deeper. They seem to be estimating close to a 100 mile range. The BMW range is similar to the FFE without the range extender. For me, part of the joy of an EV will be freedom from the burdens of a combustion engine. I wouldn't be interested in a range extender.

The FFE is right in my sweetspot partially because the price is right. Ford is offering some serious incentives which combined with the tax credits make it quite affordable. Plus, it's a very nice car.

Thanks for all your insight and suggestions. I'll pop back and let you know what we decide.

Range happy!

Perhaps you could get a dealer to let you borrow a FFE overnight to charge at home and then drive to work and back.

 

[michael]

As much as I would like to see another FFE on the road, my advice is to get a Volt. You will get the first 40 miles on electricity, and 35-40 mpg for the balance. And you will never have to worry about making it safely. Best estimates 11 kWh and less than a gallon per day.

If you can ever get charging at work, you can make the whole trip on electricity.

If you lived in California, I suggest a RAV4 EV...your commute would be easy.

 

[chiapet6]

I live in Los Angeles and have a 60 mile round trip. Most of the commute is bumper to bumper (until I get the HOV lane stickers) on the way to work. Half bumper to bumper on the way home, until I get to a long strech where I am going about 70mph. I can charge at home at night, drive to work and back with usually around 30 miles left of charge.

 

[michael]

It would be really good if one of our board members happened to live nearby and would take a test drive with you. You'd get a much better indication than anything we can estimate here. But if that doesn't happen, I'd look at it this way....

If you have 70 mile trip, plan for 75 so you have a little margin.

I estimate battery capacity at 18.5 kWh (although others may have slightly different estimates)

So to make it, you would need to maintain 18.5/75 = 246 Wh/mile. This is a reasonably achievable value, even at freeway speeds.

But what if you need to heat the car? In extreme cold, heater can consume 6 kW, but let's assume only 2 kW. Assume one hour commute, so you use 2 kWh in the heater, have 16.5 left for travel.

Then you need to maintain 16.5/75 = 220 wH/mile. This is getting pretty good, need to be careful to achieve this.

Plus what if you want to go for lunch? to the bank?.

If it's REALLY cold and you need to run the heater at 4 kW, you have only 14.5 kWh left, and you need to maintain 14.5/75 = 193 kWh/mile. That's not so easy....

It CAN be done, that's for sure, especially in mild weather. But you will need to be careful. If you have a backup car for bad weather, that would help a lot. If there is reasonable backup charging along the way, that would be a huge benefit.

 

[hybridbear]

It would be really good if one of our board members happened to live nearby and would take a test drive with you. You'd get a much better indication than anything we can estimate here. But if that doesn't happen, I'd look at it this way....

I believe Gigi is in East Cobb County. Perhaps he would be able to help.

 

[pjam3]

Do you ever have business lunches or after work dinners or errands to run? If you are barely making it home each night, you won't be able to do any of these things. Not that big of a deal if you never do these things anyway, but if you do, you would become "that guy who never drives or does anything extra" at work and at home. And that is never a good thing.

For me, I barely get 60 miles most of the time, so I try to keep my trips rather short. I have inclines and hills though and I can never use the Freeways. There is a grocery store about 1.5 miles away from me, if I use the freeway to get there and go about 65MPH, I'll wind up starting with 65 Miles of range, drive 3 miles round trip, and have about 40 Miles of range left. And that's with nothing else turned on. So I avoid the freeways at all times because of this.

If you have very few inclines, know you can make it the 70 miles and back, go for it. But you'll also have to remember you're going to be that guy who can never do anything else during and after lunch or simple errands because your car won't make it.

 

[Richmond72]

One more important thing I forgot with my earlier post... Make sure you can charge at home, only a complete fool or idiot would buy an electric car and rely on public charging.

 

[EVA]

Cold = 45 degrees. It seems like the range changes the most when the temp drops to 45. Above that, things are pretty good. Below that, the range drops.

ElSupreme's advice about surface streets is great. Until you start driving an electric car, you don't think about surface streets. In Atlanta, that might actually get you where you are going faster, given how unpredictable your highways are. I've found in the Chicago area, surface streets get me where I'm going in about the same amount of time, maybe 5 minutes longer. Not the half hour you might be thinking.

El - 2 miles left? Man you were just asking for it. I got nervous when I had 20 left.

 

[hybridbear]

Cold = 45 degrees. It seems like the range changes the most when the temp drops to 45. Above that, things are pretty good. Below that, the range drops.

Are you referring to the increased aerodynamic drag from cold air causing this? Or the fact that when the HVB temp drops it doesn't have as much energy available? I'm really curious to see how we fare for range etc in winter. Since we park in a heated, underground garage which is heated to 55 F the HVB should never get cold to have a lower ETE that way. Our tires also stay warmer which means they flex better. But none of that combats the increased aerodynamic drag from cold, dense air.

ElSupreme's advice about surface streets is great. Until you start driving an electric car, you don't think about surface streets. In Atlanta, that might actually get you where you are going faster, given how unpredictable your highways are. I've found in the Chicago area, surface streets get me where I'm going in about the same amount of time, maybe 5 minutes longer. Not the half hour you might be thinking.

I started doing this when we first got our Fusion Hybrid in 2012. I found that in many cases I could drive less miles on surface streets rather than taking the freeway. Less miles means less energy needed to propel the vehicle and the less miles helps offset the time penalty.

 

[jmueller065]

Are you referring to the increased aerodynamic drag from cold air causing this? Or the fact that when the HVB temp drops it doesn't have as much energy available? I'm really curious to see how we fare for range etc in winter. Since we park in a heated, underground garage which is heated to 55 F the HVB should never get cold to have a lower ETE that way. Our tires also stay warmer which means they flex better. But none of that combats the increased aerodynamic drag from cold, dense air.

(Answering for EVA): Below 45 degrees, heated garage or not, the battery doesn't perform as well as 70+, in addition the TMS runs to heat the battery also reducing range. For last winter my car was parked outside up until February. After late February it was kept in our garage (which, I guess you could say, is "heated"--its attached to our house and even when the temps were <<0F outside the garage never dipped below freezing). I really didn't notice a difference in performance between the two (using go times to heat the car to 85F outside vs the same in a garage). Once the car is outside things start to get cold fast.