Any Phoenix Drivers?

[Sogorman]

I am on the fence about how a FFE will preform in the summer months of Phoenix where the typical high in August is at least 105 degrees. I was hoping some Phoenix drivers could share their experiences with real world range with 100% AC usage as well as if they have to start the FFE on hot days just to cool the battery down.

My work commute is only 16 miles round trip (75% freeway) and I have covered parking at work which should help keep the battery temp down a bit.

Thanks much!

Sean

 

[vivavegas]

Im not in Phoenix, but in Las Vegas. And had no problems with my FFE this year, you will get some of the "its hot outside plug vehicle in when not in use" messages. I didnt see any problems during the summer, and I get the message that said something like "power will be reduced do to heat" or something like that, I got it 4 times when we were around 115 degrees. One mistake people in warm climates make is the color of the car, if you get anything other the White youll probably have some overheating issues. As far as range issues, during that heat wave I saw a drop of 5-8 miles, but a few days after it cooled down I was back to normal range. During winter/spring I was getting close to 5 miles a kWh while in summer with the AC blasting I was getting 3.8-4 miles a kWh, now that its dropping into the 90's again im at 4.3 miles a kWh. (so you know ive yet to crank that AC up to full as its super cold due to not having an engine heat from a normal gas engine, it cools down fast). Also, the one thing I do that helps is while its plug in at home is pre-condition the car about 10min before I leave that way the AC cools that car down fast while using the juice from the Level2 wall charger. One other thing I highly recommend besides getting only the White FFE, invest in high end tint. (not the cheapo $100 tint specials, invest in Nano or Ceramic Tint, it will block a large part of the infrared heat coming into your car (along with the UV), this will help keep your car cooler inside on those hot sunny days.

 

[Sogorman]

Thanks vivavegas, I appreciate the reply and detail. Let me run some numbers by you and correct me if I am wrong. With the FFE's 23 kWh battery I'm only going to budget that I can use 80% which takes my useable capacity down to 18.4 kWh, and at 3.8-4 miles a kWh with the air blasting provided our driving habits are alike I shouldn't have a problem getting 65+ real world miles in hot summer day with the AC blasting?

One other question, does the battery TMS function even if the car is not plugged in? Do you know if the system runs to keep the battery cool on a hot day even if the car is off? I would assume it did but I have seen where people have gotten the "plug the car in, it's hot" message and have instead just remote started it for 5 minutes to cool the batteries down. Oh and that reminds me of my final question, if you had to estimate the kWh usage of pre-cooling the car for 5 minutes while not plugged in what do you think it would be?

I appreciate the insight,

Sean

 

[WattsUp]

The usable capacity is actually 19.5 kWh. To drive the 76 miles estimated by the EPA, your rate of consumption needs to be 256 Wh/mile, which is very realistic to achieve. It's about my average rate, and I easily get 70-80 miles on a full charge.

In my experience, running the A/C to cool takes a pretty small hit on range. But, then again, I live in the SF Bay Area, where it only gets moderately hot in summer. Heating takes a much higher hit.

Yes, if necessary, the battery thermal management system kicks in when the car is on and driving around. When turned off and charging, it only seems to function when plugged in at Level 2, but not Level 1. It does not function when the car is turned off and not charging.

 

[Sogorman]

WattsUp, thanks for the additional detail. It sound like the reports of having to turn on and run the car for 5 minutes or so here in Phoenix on very hot days is a result of the battery TMS not running when the vehicle is turned off. Sounds like even with full AC usage I could budget 60-60 mi range without issue.

I appreciate all of the help here!

sean

 

[oilman]

Sean - I live in Houston where it is also known for getting a little warm at times . I drove two 50 mile legs yesterday, 90% freeway with the cruise set at 65 and the AC on auto. The outside temp was about 80 F on the first leg and over 90 F on the second. I started fully charged, and then recharged to about 95% between legs. Based on the remaining range at the end of each leg, I could have travelled at least 75 miles. I haven't had a chance to run a longer test without the AC, so I can't comment on the range penalty you see by running the AC. Knowing Houston weather, it will be at least November before I can find out .

Hope this is useful. Oilman

 

[georgek]

Yes, if necessary, the battery thermal management system kicks in when the car is on and driving around. When turned off and charging, it only seems to function when plugged in at Level 2, but not Level 1.

WattsUp,
I was wondering about this, also. FYI, I just checked my garage, and I had plugged in about 6 hours ago with my 120v outlet. When about 25' away, I distinctly heard a kind of droning. As I got close to the car I leaned over to see that the sound was coming from the smaller, lower grill. I'm almost sure it was the fan. I also felt an air-flow when touching it.
MFM says I'm at 97%, and charging.

 

[WattsUp]

Yes, if necessary, the battery thermal management system kicks in when the car is on and driving around. When turned off and charging, it only seems to function when plugged in at Level 2, but not Level 1.

WattsUp,
I was wondering about this, also. FYI, I just checked my garage, and I had plugged in about 6 hours ago with my 120v outlet. When about 25' away, I distinctly heard a kind of droning. As I got close to the car I leaned over to see that the sound was coming from the smaller, lower grill. I'm almost sure it was the fan. I also felt an air-flow when touching it.
MFM says I'm at 97%, and charging.

Interesting... personally, I have never heard any kind of fans when charging at Level 1. Others have noted similar experiences.

What was the ambient temperature when you noticed a fan running? Maybe the fan does run sometimes, but only very rarely.

 

[Sogorman]

Georgek,
Thanks for the info. I was hoping the TMS would kick in even at level 1 since I'm going to try and use just 120v for the first 45-60 days until I move.

Thanks all.

 

[georgek]

What was the ambient temperature when you noticed a fan running? Maybe the fan does run sometimes, but only very rarely.

I

WattsUp,
It was inside my garage, and I don't (yet) have a thermometer there. But it had been in the closed garage all day. It especially heats up in the afternoon with the western sun beating on the doors. I would guess, high 80's (maybe a little more). Though this is the first time I noticed the fan noise.

Outside temp was low to mid 80's.

Also, keep in mind, it was toward the end of a charge cycle, so I would expect it to be at/near it's peak temp. :?:

 

[WattsUp]

What was the ambient temperature when you noticed a fan running? Maybe the fan does run sometimes, but only very rarely.

It was inside my garage, and I don't (yet) have a thermometer there.

A real thermometer is always good, but I meant what did the car report as the ambient temperature?

The temperature outside the car is shown on the MFM website and in the mobile apps (in the "remote control" section). It is also shown inside the car on the right-hand side of the dash and, if you have MFT 3.5+, on the main MFT display.

 

[vivavegas]

It was a mild 102 degrees today and I snapped a pic of the dash to show the difference between AC off and AC on full blast. As you can tell my status dropped -4 miles (from 93 to 89) with the AC, but still dont think having the AC is much of a range killer. (now the heater in winter, thats where you get zapped, which is why in winter I try to not use the heater much, but instead just use the heated seats as much as I can). Like I said, nano/ceramic tint, pre-conditioning and having the car color white is probably the best things I think you can do in extreme heat climates. (Sogorman, if your visiting Vegas anytime soon, message me and ill let you try out the FFE around town).

 

[Sogorman]

That's great vivavegas! Since I don't mind the cold at all it looks like I shouldn't have much of a problem with the HVAC eating up my range. I really appreciate all of the great information found on this fourm and how helpful everyone is. Getting stoked about picking up an FFE!

Sean

 

[georgek]

What was the ambient temperature when you noticed a fan running? Maybe the fan does run sometimes, but only very rarely.

It was inside my garage, and I don't (yet) have a thermometer there.

A real thermometer is always good, but I meant what did the car report as the ambient temperature?

The temperature outside the car is shown on the MFM website and in the mobile apps (in the "remote control" section). It is also shown inside the car on the right-hand side of the dash and, if you have MFT 3.5+, on the main MFT display.

Sorry WattsUp. I forget!!? I do remember that, when I remembered :roll: , it didn't come close to the temp in the garage, it was lower, so I assumed it was the outside temp. My garage was much warmer.

 

[WattsUp]

What was the ambient temperature when you noticed a fan running?

Sorry WattsUp. I forget!!? I do remember that, when I remembered :roll: , it didn't come close to the temp in the garage, it was lower, so I assumed it was the outside temp. My garage was much warmer.

No problem... my second posting was more to point out that the car/MFM can report the outside temperature to you.

The car's outside temperature is derived from a sensor somewhere, so it should reflect the temperature in your garage. It might not reflect it immediately upon pulling in, but it should eventually be accurate.

- MAtt

 

[georgek]

[/quote]
No problem... my second posting was more to point out that the car/MFM can report the outside temperature to you.

The car's outside temperature is derived from a sensor somewhere, so it should reflect the temperature in your garage. It might not reflect it immediately upon pulling in, but it should eventually be accurate.

- MAtt[/quote]

OK. I always thought it was the temp outside, like, from the weather bureau??? Thanks for that.

George

 

[phxdiesel]

I'm a phoenix FFE owner so figured I'd throw out a quick response.. I know this thread is relatively old.

In the extreme heat, the A/C can consume significant amounts of power.. especially if the car has been sitting in the sun for quite a while. It will max out the "climate" power usage graph, and mileage will suffer by around -20. Once it can stabilize the temps inside the car, the compressor will spin down and the power usage will drop dramatically. Unfortunately for me, I do not have covered parking at work so the afternoon commute home is especially harsh with the A/C running full blast all the way (only about 15 miles).

The car will complain that it's hot outside and to plug it in. Usually when the temps hit somewhere in the 90's you'll get a text(sometimes I'll get one later in the day when it has made it to that "transition point" temperature wise). I always leave the car plugged in when at home.. but can't at work. So far there hasn't been an issue.

When charging on a L1 charger, it seems like it charges for a while, then runs the thermal management (A/C turns on for a while) before going back into charging mode. It will continue that cycle until fully charged. If it's plugged in but not charging, it will cycle coolant through the battery at regular intervals. This does not turn the A/C on, but just pumps coolant for a minute or two then shuts off again.

As for mileage.. You are pretty safe going 65 miles even with the A/C cranking away as long as you aren't doing 75 on the freeway. If you plan to discharge the battery past 50% regularly I would highly recommend an L2 charger. It generally won't finish charging overnight if you wait until the off-peak hours.

I live in the very northwest corner of town and can just squeak out a round-trip to fashion square mall as long as I'm driving conservatively.. but this drives the wife crazy so I just charge there while shopping.

 

[az erik]

I've experienced pretty much the above. I only picked my FFE up on Friday and noticed the cooling running with the L1 charger. I have had the AC on auto 72/73 since I got it. and usually drop a butterfly within a minute of getting it. I usually run in the -2 range but end up driving exactly what it thought I could. I havn't dropped the battery past 50% but planned on running it near dead if possible, then running the value charge from 9pm to 9am. Hoping to be able to pull a full charge in 12 hours. I live in Chandler and it looks like I'll need to charge if I ever use this to run to my buddies house on 56th ave, but only for an hour or 2.