Anyone managed to get a Juicebox yet?

[az erik]

I've been working on coming up with a way/reason to get one. Winter electric rates just hit, and now I have a reason as I can't charge the car in the 9pm to 5am time frame on 120v. And Value charging is pretty much broke in this car so I might as well go with a big on off switch, but I don't want to be the one flipping it off at 5am

I contacted EMW and they said Jan time frame for anything after the 80 kickstarter Premium units ship. I want 25/30a and this seems to be the way but I also want that 30% kick back from the feds.

 

[unplugged]

I want 25/30a and this seems to be the way but I also want that 30% kick back from the feds.

I should be receiving my Juicebox in the next week or so. I'll give it the full test and see how it performs.

 

[hcsharp]

I've been working on coming up with a way/reason to get one. Winter electric rates just hit, and now I have a reason as I can't charge the car in the 9pm to 5am time frame on 120v. And Value charging is pretty much broke in this car so I might as well go with a big on off switch, but I don't want to be the one flipping it off at 5am

That's not how you do that. The Juice Box might be OK, (can't remember all the details of their design) but the way to turn it on and off is NOT with a big 30A on-off switch. You manage it with the pilot signal. If the Juice Box is programmed to charge from, say, 1AM to 5AM, then it starts the pilot signal at 1AM. You should also look into Open EVSE which looks to me to be a better design, but not sure if it does timed charging yet.

 

[Dannymack]

Mine is supposedly shipping this week, but it is the base model so the value charging isn't an option. I'll still post up how it does when it arrives.

 

[hcsharp]

Time of Use charging, or Value Charging as Ford calls it, really is better if it's controlled by the car. The Juice Box, for example, can't decide whether or not the battery needs thermal conditioning, and provide only enough power to do that periodically while waiting for the start of lower rates. If charge times are not controlled by the car, the FFE will just use any excess not used for heating/cooling to charge the car during peak hours which is not good. Ford needs to fix their web site.

 

[az erik]

I've been working on coming up with a way/reason to get one. Winter electric rates just hit, and now I have a reason as I can't charge the car in the 9pm to 5am time frame on 120v. And Value charging is pretty much broke in this car so I might as well go with a big on off switch, but I don't want to be the one flipping it off at 5am

That's not how you do that. The Juice Box might be OK, (can't remember all the details of their design) but the way to turn it on and off is NOT with a big 30A on-off switch. You manage it with the pilot signal. If the Juice Box is programmed to charge from, say, 1AM to 5AM, then it starts the pilot signal at 1AM. You should also look into Open EVSE which looks to me to be a better design, but not sure if it does timed charging yet.

You missed my point. I don't want to do "time of day charging" with a big switch. Which is what I currently do, or only plug it in when I need. I know the JB will use a signal to flip a relay inside to do time of day, that's why I want it. Otherwise my option is a Clipper Creek on my own timer.

As for having the car plugged in all the time and using the cars time of day to charge, I and many others cant because it simply doesn't work. If I have a value charge even put in my car I can't select Charge Now. Which doubly sucks as my only chance to charge would be my value time, if it decided to do so. I know something is wrong in the software, it's added to the list of things to fix, during the SSN recall and charge ring replacement, and...

 

[hcsharp]

You missed my point. I don't want to do "time of day charging" with a big switch. Which is what I currently do, or only plug it in when I need. I know the JB will use a signal to flip a relay inside to do time of day, that's why I want it. Otherwise my option is a Clipper Creek on my own timer.

No, JuiceBox (or any other EVSE) does not implement time-of-use charging by "using a signal to flip a relay." I don't think you understood what I said, and I don't think you understand how EVSEs work. Sorry I didn't explain it very well. And you should never put an EVSE on a timer (it's bad for the car). I'll try to explain it better. The charging electronics in the car are what decides when and how much electricity to pull from your EVSE power supply. Make no mistake, the car controls how many amps it is pulling. Having said that, your car needs to know how much power is available for it to pull. So the EVSE communicates with the car using something called a pilot signal. This pilot signal does not control a relay but it tells the car how many amps it can safely pull. Using this information, the car then decides when, and how many amps to pull. If your EVSE has time-of-use charging implemented, then it just sends a pilot signal indicating 0 amps are available until you reach the time with reduced rates. Then it changes to a new signal that tells the car what's available. When you reach the start of peak rates, it changes the pilot signal again to let the car know 0 amps are available.

While the EVSE does contain a relay, it never get's switched on or off hot. It doesn't ever start or stop current flowing to the car (unless there is a ground fault or other emergency). Again, the car controls how much current it will take, and starts and stops the flow of electricity. It is the car that tells the EVSE when to turn its relay on, and then shortly after that it begins to draw power.

Like I said before, If you live in an extreme climate (cold or hot) then using the EVSE to implement Time-of-Use or Value Charging is a bad idea (although maybe better than nothing for now). The reason is because your car often needs to draw power to heat or cool the battery when it's not charging. It's also handy for the car to use power from your EVSE to run accessories when not charging so it doesn't run your battery down. If I were you I would make an effort to get Value Charging working again. I believe there's a way to Charge Now.

The only exception to all this is the 110v charger that only operates at 12A. It has the pilot signal grounded. When the FFE sees a grounded pilot, it just charges at 12A. But even a 110v charger should not be plugged into a timer.

As for having the car plugged in all the time and using the cars time of day to charge, I and many others cant because it simply doesn't work. If I have a value charge even put in my car I can't select Charge Now. Which doubly sucks as my only chance to charge would be my value time, if it decided to do so. I know something is wrong in the software, it's added to the list of things to fix, during the SSN recall and charge ring replacement, and...

That sucks. I recommend you get that working. I'm not having much better luck than you are.

 

[az erik]

It's possible with the replacement of the ring and some fiddling with my car the dealer plans on doing most of next week I'll be able to get the value charge working. For now I'm stuck on 120v anyway so I'm just plugging it in @ 9 and unplug it in the morning. I live in Phoenix. This whole battery conditioning thing is actually quite a PITA when one goes to work. Due to my parking garage not having any kind of useable outlet I have to let my car just sit in the heat. Not 90 degrees we're talking 115+ providing I get a shaded parking spot and not stuck on the roof of the garage.

At home the car is in a sealed garage that's insulated. Bad this is exactly this. Even when the battery is conditioning it's heating the garage up to 90+ and it's go no where to go. Aside from looking at punching a hole in the wall for a vent I'm running out of cooling options.

From what I'm getting about what you're saying (as the FFE is the only EV I ran into with active cooling) the Juicebox will backfire as it wont condition in "off peak" hours using the internal timer on the premium. I might as well just get a clipper or the base JB and fight the value charge.

 

[hcsharp]

At home the car is in a sealed garage that's insulated. Bad this is exactly this. Even when the battery is conditioning it's heating the garage up to 90+ and it's go no where to go. Aside from looking at punching a hole in the wall for a vent I'm running out of cooling options.

I know some EV owners who have done just that - installed a large fan in the attic of their garage to vent the heated air coming from battery cooling. I just looked out the window and noticed it was snowing. Wish I could trade some of your heat for some of my cold!

From what I'm getting about what you're saying (as the FFE is the only EV I ran into with active cooling) the Juicebox will backfire as it wont condition in "off peak" hours using the internal timer on the premium. I might as well just get a clipper or the base JB and fight the value charge.

That's right, with the possible exception of manually conditioning your battery (more below). When I built my first wall-mounted charger, I programmed a feature that I called "cool-down." When I get home and my battery temp is above 30C, I plug it in and hit the cool-down button. It then allows the car to charge at a low setting like 14A, 240V for about 30-40 minutes to cool the pack. Then it reduces the pilot signal to 0A until off-peak, at which time it raises the pilot signal to 40A (but the FFE only draws 30). While this works, it's not as good as Value Charging because your car may need to be cooled (or heated in some climates) again before off-peak charging starts.

You can perform this "cool-down" manually if you want. The problem is that the FFE and most chargers don't let you manually reduce the amps, so the charging itself will cause some heating and it will take much longer to cool it off - not what you want during peak rates. That's where the JuiceBox might help - if it has a feature allowing you to temporarily lower the amps via the pilot signal. I don't know if it does or not. In any case it's a PITA because you have to go back out to your garage after 40 min and stop charging, raise the amps back to 30, and reset everything to start at off-peak. Open EVSE has a better system IMHO. If you're handy you can build one fairly easily.

Hope I haven't confused anybody...

 

[davideos]

I did poke around the Juicebox site. I thought I read somewhere on the site that you can get the Audrino code and make your own modifications. I haven't looked at Open EVSE, but at least the thought is that with Juicebox, at least you would have the hardware platform and could add the "cool down" feature to the code...if you or someone you knows a bit of programming.

Probably the easiest thing to do is get the Value Charge working and use any of the EVSE options. I do know the site has some issues with some FFE owners and hope those get resolved soon. Fortunately mine is all set up; however, since the merge of the FFE site with the Plug in Hybrids, I can't make changes. It was suggested that remove my car from myfordmobile and then re-add; however, I'm going to take the 'If it aint broke, don't fix it' approach for the time being.

 

[Dannymack]

According to Fedex my Juicebox will finally arrive tomorrow. I will post up here how it goes for the first week or so. Just for reference of time it took to receive:

Ordered Oct 9th
Receiving Dec 11th

So about a 2 month lead time. They had my unit ready for a while, but were having issues getting enough J1772 cables. So I'm excited to finally get mine set up.

 

[unplugged]

I have the basic Juicebox unit. It is a 60 amp unit, so it is far more than necessary for the FFE. I connected my own plug cord because I wanted to use the 50 amp plug that most units use. I have adapters for most plugs including 120 volt 15 amp up to the standard dryer plugs.

When I opened the unit to attach the plug cord, I found an over-built relay assembly and related wiring. This thing looks pretty industrial. I have used it many times now, and it has worked perfectly from the start. The unit is waterproof enough that it will take a strong stream of water on a direct hit anywhere on its aluminum case. All attachments have gaskets or watertight seals.

 

[Dannymack]

I have the basic unit now as well. For the past few days it has done its job quite well. I mounted it on hooks on the wall in case I do decide to take it with me for longer trips. Only complaint I will have so far is that the j1772 plug is a bit snug. You've got to do a little wiggling to get it in. I will likely be doing a little sanding with high grit to get it to slide in better. For the price of the whole unit though I can't really complain. It has done exactly what it is designed for. My dad is waiting for his premium unit currently for his leaf, but they're still finishing case design for those.

 

[az erik]

Now that tey are shipping I'm placing my order. They don't have cables but I found a cable on Amazon, bad thing is it's a 15amp Leviton J cable. I'm thinking it'll melt @ 6.6 kw.

Still digging but waiting for my emw activation to buy the basic kit.

 

[Dannymack]

They should still have cables. Check here. http://www.emotorwerks.com/products/online-store/product/show/38-j1772-cables-for-juicebox-or-emw-dc-charging-systems/related_product-44

It'll still be a few weeks to get one, but worth it.

 

[unplugged]

...bad thing is it's a 15amp Leviton J cable. I'm thinking it'll melt @ 6.6 kw.

Yep, that'l melt it alright. The base cable sold by EMW for the unit is a 32 amp cable. It is plenty husky, but a bit stiffer than my GE cable. (The GE cable is made in the U.S. and is labeled "super flex" or something like that. It really is flexible.)

I noted that when charging, there is no heat felt from any of the connections, so the wire is well within the levels necessary for the FFE.

 

[az erik]

I skipped the JB and went CC-40 for a bit more but now I don't have to work as much on it.

 

[unplugged]

I skipped the JB and went CC-40 for a bit more but now I don't have to work as much on it.

The Clipper Creek is getting closer to the price of the manufacturer assembled Juice Box. But I don't see any less work for the CC. If you want it to be portable, you will have to wire it with a plug. The JB is available entirely provisioned with all the cables if you buy the cables from them. And it will not only be less expensive, but have the capacity for up to 60 amp output that is user adjustable. And it automatically switches over to 120 volt, so you don't have to carry around the OEM 120V unit.

That being said, the Juice Box is not yet UL rated. And its longevity is unknown. (Although the insides are built for 60 amps, so it should be overbuilt.) Also, the CC comes with a 3-year warranty, and the JB is more like, "Well, if it stops working, give us a call."