Battery deplate to 14.2 Kwh after Ford rebuild it

[Santo9]

After an SSN ( stop safely now ) on the beginnig of september , the dealer get an error code from the battery and the wiring . After sending the battery in Michigan for inspection and repair , i get it last friday . The dealer reinstall , check error message , and call me after 1 month and a half to pick up the car .

What amazing the car was charged to 100% but said 1.0 hour to full charge on ( 240 V ) and after take the road and 10 km ( 6 miles) the 100 % still there.....
I connect for the night and made road test the next morning and find that battery % and mileage fall rapidely. To be short i drove to empty the battery and see the capacity of available Kwh . When i received the message " battery deplated " 0 km to do and 0% battery , i stay in the drive way to finish empty the battery with the heater at max for about 3 min and reach cold air and car not able to drive. Result 14.2 Kwh battery capacity instead of 18.6 kwh before. Of course range fall from 125 to 90 km ...about 25% .... i imagine on winter max 65 without heater....

What did these guys do with the battery ??? I asked to the 1st day to get a new battery but answer was ....we are not authorized because your battery could be repair . I think Ford not specificate on the warranty what is a dead battery as Nissan do ( i think it is 15% and less )???
I will try for a full replacement.

 

[triangles]

Maybe you got a different battery that was more heavily used back as a replacement?

 

[fbitz777]

I would go through a whole cycle of charging. The fact that it took a long time to charge means that it might be balancing the cells of the battery ..happened to me a lot when car was new.

Then you can do a test drive and see how many kwh are used when really at zero

 

[Santo9]

Yes Fbitz777

I went to the dealer early in am and they will balance cell to have the maximum available Kwh from the battery . They need to plug the battery for a long time and wakeup cell with IDS or something like this acronyme ( Ford computer ) .

For myself I think the 100% battery charged with an indication of 1 hour remaining to full charge at 240V , is the 4 kwh missing . Even at 6.6 kw charge for 1 hour at the end of the cycle ( end of the charging session ) do not provide 6.6 kw but more around 4 kwh of capacity.

I will probabely have the answer tomorrow ....if battery will get is full capacity

 

[Jamez]

OMG I'm so sorry to hear this. What year is the car?

Unfortunately this is EXACTLY what I was concerned about with Ford, them not caring about the BEV's and their lack of a battery degradation warranty. It's polar for them: "Does it work?" Yes/No. You have a battery that works now. They don't care if you have 30% less battery than before, it works now. I have real problems with that philosophy or business practice.

Sounds to me like they changed some cells - hopefully they'll re-balance and it will all work out. Please keep us updated.

Again, I'm so sorry to hear this.

 

[Santo9]

OMG I'm so sorry to hear this. What year is the car?

Unfortunately this is EXACTLY what I was concerned about with Ford, them not caring about the BEV's and their lack of a battery degradation warranty. It's polar for them: "Does it work?" Yes/No. You have a battery that works now. They don't care if you have 30% less battery than before, it works now. I have real problems with that philosophy or business practice.

Sounds to me like they changed some cells - hopefully they'll re-balance and it will all work out. Please keep us updated.

Again, I'm so sorry to hear this.

Thank James ......we don t leave in a Anti lemon law like some States in USA unfortunately

I think they care but you need to speak a little bit louder . But i can tell you the dealer does . ( try to do their best ) i received a call today from the service and they update SYNC and work on rebalance the Cells ( i think there is 26 cell total but can wrong on the exact number ) If i am considering 4.3 kwh is missing , they replace 4 to 5 cell ( 23 kwh for 26 cell ).

After they charge the battery to max and start to deplate it with running and heater to max . They going to the point they have to push the car because the battery is completely deplated to 0% and no hot air and 0 km to do ....... the Kwh total consume is 17.6 , so a big gain . Ford Canada told them we need to see 17 to 18 kwh to be happy . It is a 2013 put on the road in oct 2013 with 31,000 on the meter ....and i never deplated the battery ; in the worst case 15 % of remaining charge + the buffer .

Tommorrow they will call me to let me know if after a 100% charge , the car show and extra time remaining to full charge .....i add 1.0 hour to do at 240 V . We will see if tomorrow will be 0 hr remaining at 100%

 

[Santo9]

jamez

I don't think Ford does not care if your battery drop to 70% of original capacity . A small capacity loss could be normal , with 30% you are out of the grey zone and they have to replace it. Of course they don t specified where is the bound or limit ,but other electric car makers does and this become , unfortunately for them, a benchmark for Ford .

BTW , when i deplate the battery to 0% the car was outside at 7 C ( 44 F ) and get 14.2Kwh but when the dealer did it , the car spent the night inside at 18 C ( 67 F) but in the morning the put the car outside at 5C for 2 hour and deplate the battery to 0% and get 17.6Kwh

I don't like to send the battery to 0% but no have the choice to get an easy way to see the capacity of the " lithium tank "

 

[Santo9]

I pick up the car on friday and showed a complete deplate capacity of 17.8 Kwh so a big gain.

Now the remaining time to full charge after i got 100% charged , drop from 1 hre to .7 to .4 hr . I saw a big increase of mileage . A regular comute ( 48 miles ) showed , before the battery problem , a 38% deplate , 13% after incident, and a 40% saterday ( road, meteo,temp,wind,speed all the same for this 3 test ) .

The dealer told me it will take several charge to rebalance the cell completely and show a remaining time of 0 hre to fully charge after the 100% have been reached.

I will post for the benefit of FFE drivers and futur FFE drivers

 

[Jamez]

I pick up the car on friday and showed a complete deplate capacity of 17.8 Kwh so a big gain.

Now the remaining time to full charge after i got 100% charged , drop from 1 hre to .7 to .4 hr . I saw a big increase of mileage . A regular comute ( 48 miles ) showed , before the battery problem , a 38% deplate , 13% after incident, and a 40% saterday ( road, meteo,temp,wind,speed all the same for this 3 test ) .

The dealer told me it will take several charge to rebalance the cell completely and show a remaining time of 0 hre to fully charge after the 100% have been reached.

I will post for the benefit of FFE drivers and futur FFE drivers

Great to hear there was an improvement! Thanks for keeping us updated.

jamez
I don't think Ford does not care if your battery drop to 70% of original capacity . A small capacity loss could be normal , with 30% you are out of the grey zone and they have to replace it. Of course they don t specified where is the bound or limit ,but other electric car makers does and this become , unfortunately for them, a benchmark for Ford .

Emphasis mine
Ford is under no obligation to do so. They don't have to do anything if the battery still works, they don't even have to give you back a battery that's new.

This is an important thing to make people aware of so they don't "get into bed with someone the're not comfortable with". Ford's warranty is very specific with the lack of a degradation clause and when questioned on it, they standby the current text with the lack degradation clause.

Anything they do end up doing for owners is goodwill and cannot be counted on to happen across the board.

Once they put down a degradation clause in writing, then they will catch up to the rest of the the market. It's up to us to be as loud as possible to help them develop something that will be equivalent to the market. BUT the problem still is, this is a very limited production vehicle and they are still not concerned with producing, advertising or selling them yet.

 

[campfamily]

Once they put down a degradation clause in writing, then they will catch up to the rest of the the market.

Do other EV manufacturers have this clause? (Nissan, Tesla, GM in particular)

 

[Santo9]

I pick up the car on friday and showed a complete deplate capacity of 17.8 Kwh so a big gain.

Now the remaining time to full charge after i got 100% charged , drop from 1 hre to .7 to .4 hr . I saw a big increase of mileage . A regular comute ( 48 miles ) showed , before the battery problem , a 38% deplate , 13% after incident, and a 40% saterday ( road, meteo,temp,wind,speed all the same for this 3 test ) .

The dealer told me it will take several charge to rebalance the cell completely and show a remaining time of 0 hre to fully charge after the 100% have been reached.

I will post for the benefit of FFE drivers and futur FFE drivers

Great to hear there was an improvement! Thanks for keeping us updated.

jamez
I don't think Ford does not care if your battery drop to 70% of original capacity . A small capacity loss could be normal , with 30% you are out of the grey zone and they have to replace it. Of course they don t specified where is the bound or limit ,but other electric car makers does and this become , unfortunately for them, a benchmark for Ford .

Emphasis mine
Ford is under no obligation to do so. They don't have to do anything if the battery still works, they don't even have to give you back a battery that's new.

This is an important thing to make people aware of so they don't "get into bed with someone the're not comfortable with". Ford's warranty is very specific with the lack of a degradation clause and when questioned on it, they standby the current text with the lack degradation clause.

Anything they do end up doing for owners is goodwill and cannot be counted on to happen across the board.

Once they put down a degradation clause in writing, then they will catch up to the rest of the the market. It's up to us to be as loud as possible to help them develop something that will be equivalent to the market. BUT the problem still is, this is a very limited production vehicle and they are still not concerned with producing, advertising or selling them yet.

I am not sure , because a normal degradation will happen with time ...the samething with human ....but a large degradation is not normal . If cells of the battery are dead they will replace it and the battery will operate again . No need to change the battery .I did the same with my drill lithium battery , i bring to the reparation and the guy rebuild it ( change bad cells )and great again .

To extrapolate the case , i don't think Ford will said " your car is ok because the battery still propulse your FFE ,but we are sorry if you only made 5 miles per charge , mileage depend on driver's habits" And be happy because now ,you can charge your car battery empty to full in less than 10 minutes !!!!!

 

[Jamez]

Do other EV manufacturers have this clause? (Nissan, Tesla, GM in particular)

Yes (emphasis mine):
http://www.nissan.ca/en/electric-cars/leaf/charging-range/battery/

"Lithium-ion Battery Gradual Capacity Loss:
In addition to the Lithium-ion Battery Coverage for defects in materials or workmanship (96 months/160,000 kilometers), the Nissan LEAF® Lithium-ion battery is also warranted against capacity loss below nine bars of capacity as shown on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge. See your Owner's Manual for tips on maximizing battery life and capacity."

But I've also seen it in the other sales documentation from them as well.

 

[Jamez]

I am not sure , because a normal degradation will happen with time ...the samething with human ....but a large degradation is not normal . If cells of the battery are dead they will replace it and the battery will operate again . No need to change the battery .I did the same with my drill lithium battery , i bring to the reparation and the guy rebuild it ( change bad cells )and great again .

To extrapolate the case , i don't think Ford will said " your car is ok because the battery still propulse your FFE ,but we are sorry if you only made 5 miles per charge , mileage depend on driver's habits" And be happy because now ,you can charge your car battery empty to full in less than 10 minutes !!!!!

I don't know if I should praise your positive outlook or remain disgruntled with my previous experiences with other manufacturers (albeit in ICE realms).

I attempted to protect myself as much as I could from the stories we've seen posted here about 1 month+ loss of the car due to battery issues, and that I've researched as much as I could about this issue before I made my decision to buy the car.

The battery repair (if necessary) is a specialized job requiring a specialized container to be shipped to your dealer to then be crated and shipped out for repair. None of which happens via air. All of which will take time. If it ever happens it's not a basic 12 cell setup.

Hope for the best and plan for the worst is my advice.

 

[campfamily]

Do other EV manufacturers have this clause? (Nissan, Tesla, GM in particular)

Yes (emphasis mine):
http://www.nissan.ca/en/electric-cars/leaf/charging-range/battery/

"Lithium-ion Battery Gradual Capacity Loss:
In addition to the Lithium-ion Battery Coverage for defects in materials or workmanship (96 months/160,000 kilometers), the Nissan LEAF® Lithium-ion battery is also warranted against capacity loss below nine bars of capacity as shown on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge. See your Owner's Manual for tips on maximizing battery life and capacity."

But I've also seen it in the other sales documentation from them as well.

Interesting..... ammunition to use if (when?) battery capacity drops making the car unuseable for anything but a run to the grocery store.

Keith

 

[Santo9]

Great Mealage now .......may be too much



Update from Ford battery upgrade


Today I start from home with a 145 km GOM ( 91 miles ) and a 100% charged. I leaved the car plunged for 4 fays without unplugged. I drive 20 km ( 12 miles ) before the 100% become 99% and 3.1 KWh burned I never saw that but after my regular comute (48 miles) My battery % showed a reserve of 54% and a 11.8 KWh burned ......
If I calculate 12 kWh x 2 give a 24 kWh of reserve for a battery who can produce a 19.5 kWh max???? Something wrong?

Now to a complete update , I need to leave the car plug at least 72 to 96 hour to have a complete charge ....and a 0 hour to complete charge
..even if 100% is indicated after 2 hour , it will said .3 hr need to complete charge

 

[Jamez]

...after my regular comute (48 miles) My battery % showed a reserve of 54% and a 11.8 KWh burned ......
If I calculate 12 kWh x 2 give a 24 kWh of reserve for a battery who can produce a 19.5 kWh max???? Something wrong?

I don't think anything is wrong with your math. Depending on driving conditions and traffic, you can exceed the "standard" 120kms/charge.

Couple of things to check:
Pay attention to your "Average Economy" used on your trips. A 215Wh/km is not so good, and you won't be able to get much range, but a 185Wh/km will.
My guess is that your trip as documented was a good one and low in the Wh/km.

Next would be to do the 6-7 hour run down test (3.3 hours to drain, 3.3 hours to fill). Pay attention to the final results to see if you're in the 20.5kWh now (or perhaps even more?)

Let us know how it works out.

 

[Santo9]

Jamel,

My trip show a 0.148 kWh/ km. ........but this means nothing . Watch I would like to highlight is the fact that 54% living and a 11.8 kWh have been burn on the road or heater doesn't t Mather . This tell me that 11.8 for 50% or 23.6 kWh of energy available at 100% is like use 100% of the 23 kWh Li battery .

The question is : Maybe Ford open reset to give 100% of the battery capacity instead of 85%. If the 15% buffer disappear the battery will suffer on a mid term basis.

I read on this forum to leave the car plugged at least 3 full days to rebalanced the battery cell

What I can tell is after the full charge I got a GOM at 108 next day 122km, the next day 135 km and the 3 day and 1/2 , 145 km was shown on the GOM and I took the car and I drove 16.8 km to see the 99% battery . So for these 17 km NO regen was possible because battery were stocked on the 100%.

 

[Santo9]

Now after 2 weeks , I drove maybe 2 milles before de 100% become 99% and this morning less than 1 mile. The remaining time to full charge on the 240 V decrease from 1 hr when 100% reached to 0% now . But at 120V I have a small 0.3 hr who will probably disappear in few week . It took now about 1 month and a half to rebalance the cells and everything look like more normal now. I made a test 2 time on battery de plate and the first time when I reach 50% of the battery 9 kWh have bee burned and the 2 nd 8.9 kWh , so around 18 kWh is pretty normal for battery capacity at 1 C degree after weird number 3 weeks ago.