Car Charging Etiquette! :D

[jmueller065]

I wouldn't depend on public charging. For example, we'd like to take the Focus Electric on an upcoming trip to Rochester (about 85 miles one-way). There are EVSEs in the parking ramp we'll be using. The cost to use them would be less than the cost for gas in the Fusion Energi. However, without those stations we would be stranded in Rochester. For that very reason we will not take the Focus Electric. We don't want to be in a situation where we would need a public charge to get home.

Not all BEV owners feel as you do. Case in point: At our local Drive Electric Week the organizer was describing to me a trip he took in his FFE from his home near Ann Arbor, MI to Stratford, Ontario (a 189 mile trip). He used four different public charge stations along the way and took about 8 hours to do the entire trip.

So far I've made two "greater than a tank" trips where we have had to charge in order to return home.

 

[michael]

As I've mentioned here in the past, I originally installed a 220 outlet at a friend's house on the other side of town so that I would have a satellite charging location that I could count on. Based on my success with the FFE, she has since gotten a RAV-4 EV and I installed an EVSE at her house. So now I get 6 kW charging there instead of just 3 kW.

That's sort of the idea of the residential side of Plugshare...a community of locations around town usable when needed for travelling or emergencies but not for everyday charging.

I'm with Jmueller...I frequently make trips beyond my basic range, but I make sure I've got backup charging spots available in case my primary is unavailable. So far, there's never been a problem. Occasionally this involves making a phone call to someone with a residential charger listed on plugshare, asking if I can count on them as a backup to a public charging station. They have always been beyond helpful, even to the extent of leaving their garage open if they need to leave the house when I expect to be passing by.

As one plugsharer put it, "if you charge up at my station, I get to breathe cleaner air"

 

[hybridbear]

As I've mentioned here in the past, I originally installed a 220 outlet at a friend's house on the other side of town so that I would have a satellite charging location that I could count on. Based on my success with the FFE, she has since gotten a RAV-4 EV and I installed an EVSE at her house. So now I get 6 kW charging there instead of just 3 kW.

That's sort of the idea of the residential side of Plugshare...a community of locations around town usable when needed for travelling or emergencies but not for everyday charging.

I'm with Jmueller...I frequently make trips beyond my basic range, but I make sure I've got backup charging spots available in case my primary is unavailable. So far, there's never been a problem. Occasionally this involves making a phone call to someone with a residential charger listed on plugshare, asking if I can count on them as a backup to a public charging station. They have always been beyond helpful, even to the extent of leaving their garage open if they need to leave the house when I expect to be passing by.

As one plugsharer put it, "if you charge up at my station, I get to breathe cleaner air"

Do you find many 240 stations on Plugshare? Almost all the residential stations I see on there are 120V outlets.

 

[hcsharp]

Do you find many 240 stations on Plugshare? Almost all the residential stations I see on there are 120V outlets.

Most Plugshare sites are 208 or 240v. You can filter the view to eliminate the 120v outlets. We often make trips beyond the range of the FFE. You just need to have a backup for each place you plan to charge.

Your assessment of owning a Tesla vs PHEV misses a few points. First, after driving 200+ miles between superchargers, then you generally need more than a 10 minute break. You need a meal at that point and time to stretch your legs or the rest of the trip is actually more difficult in my experience. A supercharger stop is usually only 30 - 45 minutes. Also, you mentioned the "free" supercharging pays for any lost time there. Really? The cost of the electricity is almost nothing. But if it's that important, more surprising is that the extra cost of electricity for a PHEV over a BEV doesn't seem to bother you at all. Most PHEVs consume about 30% more electricity per mile than a similar BEV.

The best solution is more range so drivers don't have to plug in except perhaps on long trips. That will come. PHEVs will become less convenient for local driving because of greater electric consumption and smaller batteries. They might make up for it on long trips if a quick-charge DC network is not available.

 

[hybridbear]

Your assessment of owning a Tesla vs PHEV misses a few points. First, if your car goes 200+ miles between superchargers, then you generally need more than a 10 minute break. You need a meal at that point and time to stretch your legs or the rest of the trip is actually more difficult in my experience. A supercharger stop is usually only 30 - 45 minutes. Also, you mentioned the "free" supercharging pays for any lost time there. Really? The cost of the electricity is almost nothing. But if it's that important, more surprising is that the extra cost of electricity for a PHEV over a BEV doesn't seem to bother you at all. Most PHEVs consume about 30% more electricity per mile than a similar BEV.

The best solution is more range so drivers don't have to plug in except perhaps on long trips. That will come. PHEVs will become less convenient for local driving because of greater electric consumption and smaller batteries. They might make up for it on long trips if a quick-charge DC network is not available.

Public charging stations are very expensive per kWh. The cheapest one I've found (that requires payment) around here is $0.30/kWh plus a $1.00 access fee. Many are $2.00/hr plus a $2.00 access fee. That's quite pricey to charge the car.

I am keeping detailed records of trips we make frequently between the Focus Electric and the Fusion Energi to see how their electricity consumption compares. I don't have a very large data set yet, only about 20 trips, but from what I see so far there is no statistically significant difference in Wh/mi averaged over many trips.

 

[hcsharp]

I am keeping detailed records of trips we make frequently between the Focus Electric and the Fusion Energi to see how their electricity consumption compares. I don't have a very large data set yet, only about 20 trips, but from what I see so far there is no statistically significant difference in Wh/mi averaged over many trips.

According to the EPA the Energi consumes about 20% more electricity per mile. Sorry I over-estimated at 30%.

 

[michael]

Do you find many 240 stations on Plugshare? Almost all the residential stations I see on there are 120V outlets.

I set my plugshare to show an area that generally corresponds to the City of LA, roughly 25 x 50 miles as a guess.

Counting only residential locations, it shows:

112 total
82 with J1772 EV plug (presumably 220 V)

so it would appear about 3/4 have level 2 charging and only 1/4 are 110 only.

In the same area, there are 110 "public" level 2 stations, so residential stations are a significant part of the resource. And of course there are many, many more residential stations that are not listed, probably thousands...

 

[hybridbear]

I am keeping detailed records of trips we make frequently between the Focus Electric and the Fusion Energi to see how their electricity consumption compares. I don't have a very large data set yet, only about 20 trips, but from what I see so far there is no statistically significant difference in Wh/mi averaged over many trips.

According to the EPA the Energi consumes about 20% more electricity per mile. Sorry I over-estimated at 30%.

Exactly. That's what I'm trying to test in the real world with owning both.

 

[EVA]

I'll never understand hybrids - plug in or otherwise. You're hauling around a gasoline engine that has to be maintained, weighs a lot, adds a level of complication to something incredibly simple - for what? In my pea brain, the for what is for the time when you might drive farther than the range of an electric car.

Seems like a lot of stuff to carry around for those times. The 800 pound gorilla in the room is rental cars when you want to go farther. Why bother hauling all that weight around? When you need to go someplace farther, just rent a car.

In our particular case, yes an FFE could be our only car - if we only had one driver. Daily commute of 30 miles round trip. Need to run some errands that day, fine enough range. Need to go out that night, fine - the level 2 charger will take care of enough range. Need to go on a trip farther away - Hertz, and Enterprise all have offices very near my house. Not complicated at all. Problem totally solved.

 

[EVA]

Well I'll give you 9,000 miles of personal experience about driving long distance with a Tesla. The whole idea of the 10 minute gas station stop - doesn't cut it. Quality of life goes up so much with the charging stops. We did a 4,000 mile round trip from Chicago to Phoenix. Arrived in Phoenix still loving the car and not at all tired.

What do you do during the stops? Eat. Sleep (the back seat is nearly perfect for taking a nap). Relax. Wash the car windows. Enjoy the trip. Talk to other Tesla owners, because, well, we all have to stop at the same places, the superchargers. We actually did 1,100 miles in one go on the way home. I would have never done that in an ICE car, NEVER.

Probably the biggest factor with fatigue in an electric car - the lack of vibration and noise. Even in high end luxury cars, an engine vibrates and it makes noise. An electric car does none of those things. There is a lot less stress and fatigue in an electric.

In the big picture, the time to stop for charging - doesn't exist. The benefits far outweigh the time you think you are losing.

 

[hybridbear]

I'll never understand hybrids - plug in or otherwise. You're hauling around a gasoline engine that has to be maintained, weighs a lot, adds a level of complication to something incredibly simple - for what? In my pea brain, the for what is for the time when you might drive farther than the range of an electric car.

Seems like a lot of stuff to carry around for those times. The 800 pound gorilla in the room is rental cars when you want to go farther. Why bother hauling all that weight around? When you need to go someplace farther, just rent a car.

In our particular case, yes an FFE could be our only car - if we only had one driver. Daily commute of 30 miles round trip. Need to run some errands that day, fine enough range. Need to go out that night, fine - the level 2 charger will take care of enough range. Need to go on a trip farther away - Hertz, and Enterprise all have offices very near my house. Not complicated at all. Problem totally solved.

If that works for you then that's fantastic. However, there are many times where we need to drive 120-200 miles round trip from the city out to the country or small towns in rural MN. There are ZERO charging stations around here. Thus the need for a PHEV. Renting a car isn't practical when we're making trips like that at least once a month. If we could afford a Tesla then we could make all those trips in an EV, but considering that a Tesla would cost more than both our cars combined it doesn't make sense.

 

[michael]

I used to be critical of plug in hybrids (and I still am of the plug in Prius) but the Volt has been great. People who would never, ever have bought a pure EV are totally willing to go with a Volt , once they understand what it does and how well it works. And these people, in most cases, very rarely need to burn any gasoline. But the the range-risk factor completely disappears and they are willing to try something new.

I have "sold" to my family and friends six Volts so far, and they in turn have "sold" three more. Try as I can, I can't "sell" an FFE. I've sold one Rav-4 EV, but this is the only pure electric.

The Volt drivers rarely exceed their 40 mile AER, and try as I might to explain that, this being the case, they would have been better off with an 80 mile BEV. They ain't buyin' it.

So the Volt is a great first step, and a big one. Once people see how rarely they use the gas engine, perhaps more will go with a BEV next time. But in the meanwhile, it's a big step in the right direction.

 

[jmueller065]

The Volt drivers rarely exceed their 40 mile AER, and try as I might to explain that, this being the case, they would have been better off with an 80 mile BEV. They ain't buyin' it.

They simply can't give up the "security blanket" of the gas engine.
From our perspective having already driven around a BEV its no big deal, but to people who have never driven one or even contemplating only 70 miles of range....its terrifying!

Friends and family were totally flummoxed when we told them I had ordered a BEV. I was told all of the cliches: "Aren't you afraid it will strand you?" "Its going to cost a fortune in electricity" "How will you charge it?" "Why don't you try an Energi first just in case?" They simply cannot make the mental leap required...

As far as being stranded for myself: its ICE 1, FFE 0

 

[studio460]

Friends and family were totally flummoxed when we told them I had ordered a BEV. I was told all of the cliches: "Aren't you afraid it will strand you?" "Its going to cost a fortune in electricity" "How will you charge it?" "Why don't you try an Energi first just in case?" They simply cannot make the mental leap required.

Right! When I told my dad I was buying an all-electric vehicle, he said the exact same things:

• What if you get stranded at work?
• It's gonna make your electricity bill skyrocket.
• Why don't you buy a Prius?

He was hell-bent on me buying a Prius instead (he recently bought a Prius for himself). At first, I didn't realize how acclimated I would come to driving a vehicle with only a 76-mile range. But, I wanted a car with style. A car not too many people had. I must see six Teslas a day in my commute--they're getting common (at least in L.A.). I've only seen one Ford Focus Electric on the road in the last three months I was considering the car. A Prius? I might as well drive a Honda Civic or a Toyota Camry.

 

[WattsUp]

It's gonna make your electricity bill skyrocket.

People have such misconceptions about electricity.

I tell people that, when I fully charge my FFE at home, it costs just a few dollars, at most. Just a few dollars, to drive 76 miles! Then I ask them how much it costs to drive 76 miles in their car. When they think about the answer, they realize that it costs them 3-4 times that.

So, no, your "fuel bill" doesn't skyrocket. It gets slashed.

 

[michael]

The other objection I get all the time is, "What if I want to drive to Vegas?"

I respond by asking, "How many times did you drive to Vegas in the last year?" (Usual answer: Well, I didn't)
Then I ask how many times did they drive to work in the last year (I have to tell them, most people well over 200)

So I explain they should get a car that does the job 99% of the time, not one that's needed a few times a year, and...if they need to go to Vegas:

1. Fly, or
2. Take someone else's car, or
3. Rent a car

I also explain that no car will do every job...what if they need to haul furniture? To carry 7 people? to tow something? Deal with special cases with rentals.

I finish off by telling them my FFE has taken me 24,000 miles in the year I've had it, so it's obviously very capable of getting me where I need to go on a day-in-day out basis.

 

[EVA]

At first, I didn't realize how acclimated I would come to driving a vehicle with only a 76-mile range. But, I wanted a car with style. A car not too many people had. I must see six Teslas a day in my commute--they're getting common (at least in L.A.). I've only seen one Ford Focus Electric on the road in the last three months I was considering the car. A Prius? I might as well drive a Honda Civic or a Toyota Camry.

You did good Studio460. I think as time goes on, you are going to be even happier with your choice.

I just drove our FFE for the first time in about a month. My car is the Tesla and my wife drives the FFE to work every day. We ran a few errands tonight and I smiled so big driving the FFE. It is a fun light car to drive. Everybody talks about the Tesla grin - yeah I'd have a big stupid one on my face driving the FFE. I get so calm and enjoy driving that car.

 

[johnnywheels]

Yeah I was sitting in my car charging, with a Volt next to me. Another guy drove up and parked next to the Volt and unplugged it for his Leaf.

:roll:

If I saw that, I'd probably swap his plug back to the Volt before I left. And I'd leave a note, "Ahhh.. so you don't like being unplugged mid-charge either? I'm not the Volt owner, but I saw your jerk-ass move, and corrected it".

Good to see someone thinks similar! Everything comes full circle and it always comes back around! haha