Ford breaks the 200 FFE mark for the first time...ever

[jmueller065]

Yup Ford sold more than 200 FFE's in August (264 in fact):
http://insideevs.com/august-2014-plug-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/

I wonder if they built a few more FFE's because they knew there wouldn't be any availability until the 2015's came along and surprised themselves when they all sold instead of sitting on lots!

 

[Kakkerlak]

I helped !

If the scuttlebutt on this Forum is accurate, they must have increased production to meet "surging" demand and to handle a suspension of monthly production at the Michigan Assembly Plant.

 

[hybridbear]

I didn't realize that this was the first time to break the 200 cars barrier.

 

[jmueller065]

Yup: The FFE has been barely creeping up. Last year it was in the low 100s and for the past few months of this year it was in the high 100s, even skirting 200 ever so slightly. But the 264 just bust right through the 200 level...LOL

Yeah its completely arbitrary and meaningless compared to the sales leaders (Volt, Leaf, and Tesla).

Its too bad too since Ford could easily be selling as many as Nissan just with a little marketing.

 

[studio460]

I wonder if they built a few more FFE's because they knew there wouldn't be any availability until the 2015's came along and surprised themselves when they all sold instead of sitting on lots!

That's why I bought mine last Saturday (09/27/2014). I didn't want to miss out on my preferred color/options, and be forced to wait six months and buy an FFE at sticker price with no Ford incentives. I had no idea FFE sales were in such low numbers. I can't imagine why, either. It's the prettiest of the bunch. Oh well, more exclusivity for us!

 

[jenjc]

There is no doubt that in Georgia sales are being driven by the highly probable loss of the state-level $5,000 tax credit next year and the awareness that the 2015's won't be available until the first quarter of next year. The challenge is that at the moment, in the entire Atlanta metropolitan area (and State of Georgia), there is exactly one (1) FFE available in dealer inventory.

It really is a shame that Ford wasn't more on the ball. The market for EVs is very strong in Georgia because of the incentive. Leafs are flying off the lot and Nissan has an absolutely unassailable market share. I suspect the problem is that even with having retrofitted an existing model, Ford isn't making enough money on these cars. No motivation.

Having heavily evaluated both the Focus and the Leaf, I'm very happy we managed to get our hands on a 2014 at a fair price. We'll run this one heavily and enjoy every mile until it'll be necessary to replace it. At that point, I expect there'll be a more robust, competitive market for EVs. I hope so... I'm pretty sure we won't want to go back to an ICE.

Jenny

 

[studio460]

The challenge is that at the moment, in the entire Atlanta metropolitan area (and State of Georgia), there is exactly one (1) FFE available in dealer inventory.

Wow! It's unfortunate that Ford is so lackluster in its marketing and distribution of the car. With the right incentives, the car remains an attractive buy.

Leafs are flying off the lot and Nissan has an absolutely unassailable market share.

Yeah, I really can't understand why that is. I think the Focus Electric is just so much cooler in so many ways (including cooler batteries!).

 

[pjam3]

It's obvious Ford doesn't want to or care about the FFE. Every other company has some marketing report or some PR about the future electric or improved electric car. GM has the 200 mile electric they keep leaking. Tesla keeps talking about their cheap Model coming soon. VW has talked about things, Porsche even has a plug-in hybrid. Whether the 200 mile becomes a reality, who knows. All ford ever talks about is the C-Max or the Fusion Energi and how they are improving that or thinking about solar roofs for the c-Max.

It doesn't seem like Ford has any desire to put any effort or money into their electric car.

 

[ElSupreme]

It doesn't seem like Ford has any desire to put any effort or money into their electric car.

Well other than Tesla (who is all in, starting in a higher profit margin market, and is already on their second generation EV) I think Ford, and BMW are really doing it right.

Nissan bet big, and has marketed heavily. But they still are fighting battery issues. The LEAF is a lower quality vehicle overall than the Focus. And frankly it seems to be working out for them. But they made a relatively simple EV. So they will have more changes, and improvements in their 2nd generation effort.

Ford is keeping the sales numbers small. So things like the SSN errors don't affect large numbers of people. They set their EV system on a very proven platform. When they get everything right then they go full market. It is safe, but slower. But I think a 2nd generation Ford EV is going to be better than the 2nd generation Nissan EV. The Focus EV is really a test platform, or open beta.

And I don't get the GM love when it comes to EVs. The Spark EV is much lower sales than the Focus. The Volt is a great car, but the carry over to pure EV is going to be limited. Certainly better than BMWs REX kludge.

 

[NightHawk]

It will be interesting to see how well Kia does with their Soul EV coming out shortly.
It has a bigger battery than the FFE and Leaf. I would have considered it as well as those last month if it was available.

 

[pjam3]

The way Ford is going, there won't be a real 2nd generation FFE. They seem to have far more interest in their Plug-in Hybrids. I think the Leaf is a cheap car, but I wouldn't call the FFE a luxury car. It has some nice features, but it's a cheap car. You can buy a Gas Focus for like $16K. So when you are an avg car buyer, spending $30K on a FFE vs around $15K on a FF makes little sense.

 

[NightHawk]

The way Ford is going, there won't be a real 2nd generation FFE. They seem to have far more interest in their Plug-in Hybrids. I think the Leaf is a cheap car, but I wouldn't call the FFE a luxury car. It has some nice features, but it's a cheap car. You can buy a Gas Focus for like $16K. So when you are an avg car buyer, spending $30K on a FFE vs around $15K on a FF makes little sense.

The FFE has more options than a base Focus though so you have to compare it with a higher end gas Focus model pricewise.
But with a nearly $3K dealer discount, $6000 Ford bonus incentive discount, and state rebate $2500 plus Fed tax credit $7500 my 2014 FFE price ended up just a little over $17K plus tax for comparison.
I think a Gas Focus with all the high end options in the FFE (remote control key, MySync Touch nav system, USB ports, etc) would be pretty close pricewise.

 

[EVA]

Yes PJam you are comparing two completely different cars. The FFE is closer to the content in a Titanium Focus. And Nighthawk got it exactly right, by the time it is all said and done, the FFE is very close to the same price as a Titanium Focus. Then count no gas, no oil changes, and none of that other nonsense - and you are way ahead with the FFE.

Yes of course you can buy a stripped down Focus for that little. So what? It isn't the same car by a long shot.

 

[pjam3]

Yes PJam you are comparing two completely different cars. The FFE is closer to the content in a Titanium Focus. And Nighthawk got it exactly right, by the time it is all said and done, the FFE is very close to the same price as a Titanium Focus. Then count no gas, no oil changes, and none of that other nonsense - and you are way ahead with the FFE.

Yes of course you can buy a stripped down Focus for that little. So what? It isn't the same car by a long shot.

Yeah, but you don't need a second car to make normal trips. If you only drive 30 miles round trip back and forth to work where you don't go anywhere else or do anything else, it works fine. But I have yet to hear anybody on this forum or anywhere else lay claim that they don't have a few others cars. Huge difference. How many people on here just drive a FFE? I mean I've heard quite a few who have a Tesla and a FFE. Yeah that's not the avg car buyer.

So If you need to buy another car or have another car just to do normal things you normally do, it means the car isn't as cheap as people claim. When a 50 mile trip one way is outside the limit of the car, it severely limits the usage of the car. And while I don't like the Leaf, one of the advantages is you can charge it in like 30 minutes or faster. Which means you don't need to sit around for 4 hours to charge the car. I mean a trip for San Diego to Los Angeles and back or vice versa becomes far easier if you can stop off and charge for 30 minutes instead of 4+ hours.

 

[Rogerschro]

Yeah, but you don't need a second car to make normal trips. If you only drive 30 miles round trip back and forth to work where you don't go anywhere else or do anything else, it works fine. But I have yet to hear anybody on this forum or anywhere else lay claim that they don't have a few others cars. Huge difference. How many people on here just drive a FFE? I mean I've heard quite a few who have a Tesla and a FFE. Yeah that's not the avg car buyer..

Many of us Already had two cars to begin with, because there are often two persons in the household that need transportation. So, we traded for an electric because we knew the majority of trips were will within the range of an electric. This coupled with the cost savings, conveniences (yes, there are conveniences to EV cars!) and the bonus of doing less harm to the environment makes a lot of sense to us. It is not like we started without a car and decided to buy an EV then realized we needed another car to drive when going further than the limit of the EV. So although having only an electric car may not work for most, having only one gas car doesn't work for most of us either, so why not have one of each? If two cars are not for you, then a hybrid or ICE makes more sense that a full electric.
When we look at it this way (which I DID, hence my FFE and C-Max) it makes all kinds of sense to own an EV. Why would I have two gas powered cars when I could save so much on fuel costs, etc. by having one of them an EV.? In many situations, two person households are the average car buyer, and two cars is increasingly the norm because both have jobs and need a car to both work and do errands at times the are not convenient with only one vehicle available. Your Tesla/FFE example is not the norm, but owning two cars actually is pretty normal.
I got a C-Max for my girlfriend to commute to college and visit with her daughter. We chose it for the extra head room, back seat room and comfort, and because it was so much better on gas, cutting fuel costs nearly in half from her other car. I owned a 2012 Focus that I really liked a lot. I have the luxury of working where we live so my trips are mostly around 30 miles total round trip, usually less. Why did I have a car that got less mpg than the C-max for such short range trips? It made sense to go all electric for me, and honestly the ride and styling of the Focus had a lot to do with my trading it for the FFE. I wouldn't have traded if it were a different EV car.

 

[jmueller065]

Yeah, but you don't need a second car to make normal trips. If you only drive 30 miles round trip back and forth to work where you don't go anywhere else or do anything else, it works fine. But I have yet to hear anybody on this forum or anywhere else lay claim that they don't have a few others cars. Huge difference. How many people on here just drive a FFE? I mean I've heard quite a few who have a Tesla and a FFE. Yeah that's not the avg car buyer.

We only have two cars: One for me (the FFE) and the wife's car (most recently an Escape). Which car do we drive the most? The FFE. We take it everywhere we can. The only time we're forced to take the Escape is usually when there isn't enough room in the FFE for all the stuff we need for where we're going (For instance: This past Saturday our son played in a baseball tournament. There was no way we were going to fit everything we brought to that in the FFE; we barely had enough room in the Escape. 3 Coolers, two chairs, a wagon, a table, baseball gear, the 3 of us, etc.).
There have been many days for us where after my 30 mile commute to work and back we still put a good 65 miles on the FFE going places (after a quick top off charge at home).

Funny note: look how the forum automatically formatted: "fit everything"! LOL

 

[ElSupreme]

Yeah, but you don't need a second car to make normal trips. If you only drive 30 miles round trip back and forth to work where you don't go anywhere else or do anything else, it works fine. But I have yet to hear anybody on this forum or anywhere else lay claim that they don't have a few others cars. Huge difference. How many people on here just drive a FFE? I mean I've heard quite a few who have a Tesla and a FFE. Yeah that's not the avg car buyer.

So If you need to buy another car or have another car just to do normal things you normally do, it means the car isn't as cheap as people claim. When a 50 mile trip one way is outside the limit of the car, it severely limits the usage of the car. And while I don't like the Leaf, one of the advantages is you can charge it in like 30 minutes or faster. Which means you don't need to sit around for 4 hours to charge the car. I mean a trip for San Diego to Los Angeles and back or vice versa becomes far easier if you can stop off and charge for 30 minutes instead of 4+ hours.

So I will agree that I am not a normal car buyer. I do have a Model S and a FFE (that is it). I bought the Model S with the expectation that we still had a gasoline car to do any sort of driving that might exceed the Model S range. My wifes Civic decided to give up on life idleing at a red light. After having the Model S for over a year it was obvious that needing a gasoline vehicle was unnecessary. So we got the FFE.

Now I am driving the FFE, because my wife is driving to Athens a few days a week to finish grad school. Obviously the FFE won't make the trip (90 miles one way). But I drive 25 miles to work, and 25 miles back from work. On Tuesdays and Thursdays I drive 22 miles to soccer pick-up and 22 miles back. I have done all that without intermediate charging, but most of the time I plug into a 120 plug at work, or maybe 30 minutes at 7kW at home. It isn't all that hard to do. When I don't go to soccer I drive a 30 mile route to and from work (its a little faster) with lots more interstate, and much worse efficiency. And guess what. I can still go out to dinner, still pickup stuff at the grocery store, drop by Target or PetSmart. The FFE can do ALL of my daily driving with little planning.

If we started out with an FFE instead of the Model S. Sure dropping the ICE Civic for another 'low range' EV would have required some real thought and adjustments. And we would have needed to wait until my wife finishes school (7 more months). But my wife likes the electric drive. I like the electric drive. I would give up some flexibility to drive EV all the time. And you can always rent a car if you really need it.

As for cost the LEAF is based on the Versa platform a platform where you can get a $10,000 vehicle. The Focus platform starts around $16k. This is a 60% more expensive platform, it isn't nealy as cheap as the LEAF/Versa platform. And with a $6000 manufacturer discount, a $7500 Federal tax rebate, and at $5000 state rebate. A little negotiation. I netted a sub $18,000 FFE. So in reality I didn't pay a premium over the normal stripped base Focus Hatchback.

 

[WattsUp]

So I will agree that I am not a normal car buyer. I do ...

Doesn't matter ElSupreme (psst, I agree with you), pjam3 will always highlight the case of somebody with an electric car that has too little range for their daily driving needs. Why that somebody would have purchased the car in the first place, knowing the car's range versus their daily driving needs, is never part of the discussion.

There are many of us, extremely happy owners, for whom the FFE is the perfect car for us. Best car we've owned. It covers 95% (maybe more, maybe less) of our driving needs, and does so more efficiently, and giving more pleasure, than any other car we've driven. At least that's been my experience.

I can even say, the FFE is one of the highest quality, best-built cars that I've owned, which was a surprise (coming off Hondas). After nearly two years, my FFE is still super-quiet and feels new. I ride in some of my co-worker's new-ish cars, and am amazed at how many rattles and creaks their BMW, Audi, or Acura has.

 

[EVA]

Oh am I glad I deleted what I typed last night after reading PJam's post. You all answered in such a nice logical fashion. No the FFE isn't a one size fits all. It isn't a car for everybody. But oh boy do I ever love the three cars we own now.

My path flipped upside down from ElSupreme's. We bought an FFE because about two years ago my wife said in passing - wouldn't it be nice to have a Nissan Leaf that I could drive to school every day? She teaches Advanced Placement Environmental Science at the second largest high school in Chicago. Well, yes it would. And yes it would be natural that we should own one of those cars.

I test drove the Tesla. Loved it. Configured it. Came home and said, can we get one? How much are they - well it will be around $90,000. Nope, won't drive that to school, can't do it every day. You can get it for a toy, but I won't drive it. So I did some research. Wow, Ford has an electric, and our dealer 10 steps from our house has one! I'm going down to drive it today.

Fell in love with it on the spot. My wife drove it and loved it. We bought it. That meant we had four cars - a 1999 Mercedes E320, a 2002 Buick Rendezvous, and a 2012 Focus Titanium.

That all worked for a while. The Mercedes was rusting everywhere. Fast forward a year (a totaled FFE and leasing a new one) and I figured out I could afford a Model S. Test drove it, configured it and ordered it. The caveat, one car had to go - we couldn't have 5. The Mercedes was it - I had to limp it over to Car Max hoping some light wouldn't come on.

After owning the Tesla for a while and one son going off to college - we decided the Rendezvous had to go (it had blown a head gasket twice, had super bad random no start problems - stranded my wife and son many times, and had thrown the wheel sensor error again for the last time). Now we have three cars. Two electric and one ICE.

The long answer to PJam's rant about their FFE. In the five or six months I've owned the Tesla - it now has 10,000 miles on it. I have never drive a car so much in such a short time in my life. It is the car we use to go everywhere outside of daily commute. The FFE goes to school every day. The ICE Focus is for number 1 son to take to graduate classes in Chicago and his random trip to see friends. It now gets almost 30 MPG on the highway. And I use the Tesla for whatever I want to do. It is going to spend a lot of time between Chicago and Muncie, IN watching my son play volleyball.

Which car do we prefer to drive - FFE for around town. Tesla for trips. It is simple.

No ElSupreme and I are not average car buyers. But we aren't that out of the norm. Once you've tasted electric cars, you want nothing else. Gas cars are not as pleasurable to drive by a long measure.

And if a person only owned one car and it was an FFE - that person can rent cars for longer trips. People that use public transportation for their daily commute do it ALL the time. They rent cars when they need to go farther. It isn't complicated or that strange.