GPS less sensitive after recalls

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WattsUp

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Messages
2,113
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
I recently had recalls 13A01, 13C07, 13S09 applied to my FFE.

For about a year before, I had driven my FFE into the parking garage at work every day, where it almost always knew it's position with a high degree of accuracy (occasionally, there might have been a hiccup, but very rarely). Even if I moved my car in the middle of the day (without leaving the garage) to another spot (say, from an EV charging stall to a normal parking spot), the change in position would be reported accurately (e.g., I could see my car had moved, even if only by a few parking spots).

But... ever since the update, my car's position now almost always gets screwed up shortly after I drive into the garage. In these cases, the navigation screen also shows a "crossed-out" GPS icon on the left side of the map (I never saw that before, but it might be a new feature of MFT 3.6, whereas previously I had MFT 3.1). Often, the position where the car thinks it is ends up shown on a street a block over (both in the car and by the MFM site or app), even though there are a few other streets in between. So, it's not like it picked the "next nearest" street... it picked some random street, like, 500 yards away.

As I suspect some in-dash hardware was replaced as part of one of the recalls, I am wondering something to do with GPS was altered (e.g., is it possible that my car now has different, worse, GPS hardware?) or perhaps a dumb mistake was made (e.g., like the tech forgot to reconnect the GPS antennae lead after replacing some hardware, if that's even possible, leaving with me okay GPS reception "in the open", but awful reception when obstacles are present?).

Anybody else had a similar GPS experience following the recalls?

Does anybody remember (or can currently verify) if a crossed-out GPS icon ever appeared on the navigation display of MFT 3.1. I simply don't recall ever seeing it before I was upgraded to MFT 3.6. It certainly never showed up when I drove into the garage at work for all of last year.
 
I'm pretty sure this has to do with your change from MFT 3.1 to MFT 3.6, rather than the recall work. If it was your gps having issues, I'd think it would mess up your location all the time vs only when at work. The map data on your SD card has been updated and might now have bad data about the area around your work. Since I updated my MFT to 3.5, which had the new map card, my car often gets confused about its location on a certain stretch of road that I regularly drive. It puts my car's location on a train track or in a pond as I drove along a highway. Funny thing was with the old map card it had me ok on this particular stretch but off position in a stretch down the same road.
Anyway, when I first noticed the messed up vehicle positioning, I looked around the sync forum and saw that this sort of occurrence was not uncommon.

I don't believe hardware replacement is a standard part of any of these recall jobs so I would hope your dealer would tell you they were doing something extra. Have you asked them if they replaced anything?
 
Thanks, but you're not understanding me perhaps.... I don't think this a "GPS data quality" issue. (In any case, do you know for sure if there has been a recent GPS data update for the FFE? I wasn't aware that was part the update; but I guess it would have been 13A01 if any.)

Your point is taken that I'd probably be having a problem all the time with bad reception, but I also have to disagree... I can see how having low-sensitivity to GPS signals might only cause any issues when obstacles are present (such as the building above me when parking in the garage), and yet cause no isues when driving with an un-obstructed open view of the sky. I mean, up and until I enter the garage, my car knows exactly where it is. At some point soon after entering the garage, the crossed-out icon appears, and the location is often suddenly "thrown" 500 yards away.

Of course, another ramification of this is... now when I charge at work now, MFM thinks my car is at some "unknown" charging location 500 yards away. Yet, all last year, virtually without exception, whenever I charged at work, and no matter how I moved my car around in the garage, MFM knew my car was at my known "work" charging location (because the GPS position was accurately maintained, even as I drove around in the garage).

It's like a night and day difference since the updates were applied.
 
I've fiddled with GPS devices for some time and have had seen interesting things happen from time to time. GPS systems should employ some sort of averaging to keep your location from doing anything drastic. However, to do that, it has to have at least partial reception....at least 3 satellites out of 12 or so possibly visible. If reception is blocked, it shouldn't try to average at all and just plop you where reception ended. I think it would be unlikely that the sensitivity of the receiver is any different. In fact, if it were less sensitive, it would seem that it would give up more quickly giving less chance to mess you up.

My guess would be that during the MFT update, where we know some of the mapping features were changed, Ford made changes to the tracking algorithm...perhaps the averaging part...or perhaps the decision when to determine the data from the satellites is no longer precise enough. I actually do have a "charging location" identified by MFM that is about 100 yards in front of my house in the ravine across the street. I've never had that before. I think the software is trying to extend the inevitable...signal is lost.

A complaint to Ford is probably our best choice and hope that they incorporate some "de-bouncing" algorithm in the next release. Something that might help is to determine how much time it takes before the GPS moves your position out in the weeds and try and be sure to shut your car off before that amount of time expires. I'll try and reproduce it, but since I updated in early November, I've only seen it happen once.
 
davideos said:
My guess would be that during the MFT update, where we know some of the mapping features were changed, Ford made changes to the tracking algorithm...perhaps the averaging part...or perhaps the decision when to determine the data from the satellites is no longer precise enough.
Perhaps you're right, and all that's happened is a software change. In my case, it's made something worse that was previously working much better. When I drive to work and park now, MFM usually doesn't report that I'm there (when it has been doing that very well for the last 12 months). I guess it's not a huge deal, it is just silly and annoying that it broke.

davideos said:
I actually do have a "charging location" identified by MFM that is about 100 yards in front of my house in the ravine across the street. I've never had that before. I think the software is trying to extend the inevitable...signal is lost.
Actually... if your car seems to accurately know where it is (as shown inside the car or in the Vehicle Locator page of MFM) but your charging station is consistently identified in that same location 100 yards away from your house, I'd suggest that you're much more likely experiencing this:

MFM charge locations seem grid-aligned... causing problems

Apparently, this grid-alignment behavior has nothing to do with GPS accuracy, just some kind of "manipulation" being performed by MFM (probably at the server) on the coordinates of charging locations before they are recorded. As far as I can tell, this manipulation is intentional (although misguided, IMO). This behavior only started happening after the site/app update in October.

It is super-annoying. In my case, MFM picks one of two charging locations when I'm parked at my house, and one of four at work (see images in the other thread) even though I always park in the same places at each location (that used to be recorded in a non-aligned manner before the October update).
 
dmen said:
I don't believe hardware replacement is a standard part of any of these recall jobs so I would hope your dealer would tell you they were doing something extra. Have you asked them if they replaced anything?
I haven't checked yet, just trying to gather info here for now.

I guess they did replace the SD card; the label now says "A4".
 
Here are the changes for the latest sync update:
DA5T-14D544-BD
The latest SYNC® update includes all of the improvements from previous updates, plus additional benefits, such as:
•Information display on the homescreen for HD, Sirius (if equipped), and FM radio sources
•Simplified graphics and improved usability
•Enhanced voice destination entry for SD Card Navigation (if equipped)
•Improved Navigation vehicle positioning (if equipped)]
•Rear view camera guidelines set to ON by default (if equipped)
•Updated SYNC/device compatibility information

Just interpret "Improved" as "altered". I think of the old adage..."if it aint broke, don't fix it."
 
Your point is taken that I'd probably be having a problem all the time with bad reception, but I also have to disagree... I can see how having low-sensitivity to GPS signals might only cause any issues when obstacles are present (such as the building above me when parking in the garage), and yet cause no isues when driving with an un-obstructed open view of the sky. I mean, up and until I enter the garage, my car knows exactly where it is. At some point soon after entering the garage, the crossed-out icon appears, and the location is often suddenly "thrown" 500 yards away.

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