How Good is the FFE Battery Warranty?

[PlainTom]

Does anyone know what Ford's official definition is of acceptable "degradation over time" as this phrase is used in their battery warranty language to limit their liability?

I have a 2017 Focus electric whose battery has lost somewhere around 20% of its capacity (give or take), so somewhere around 3% a year. It's well under the 100k mile limit. Do I have a valid warranty claim to make?

Does anyone have any experience with such borderline issues?

[-tv]

 

[spirilis]

Not directly answering the Q but, I can vouch for the fact that, once the "Voltage Variation" between cells metric hits 0.30 V, a wrench light comes on (code P0BBE) and the dealer will certainly look at the battery and consider it for replacement. That happened to me, mine just happens to be at 102K miles now so I'm stuck. My battery has lost somewhere around 50% though.

 

[PlainTom]

Perhaps not exactly to the point, Spirillis, but still informative and helpful ... thanks!

 

[triangles]

There is no guarantee on a % degradation. If it charges and drives without throwing a DTC you will more likely than not, get nothing from ford. I have no official knowledge on this, it's just my interpretation of reading the warranty and based on my observations of how ford has treated others with battery issues.

 

[FiSh]

Someone on FFE facebook group posted that their capacity dropped to ~18kWh on 2017 FFE and they offered either refurb pack replacement or 12.5k USD buyout.

 

[InFocus]

Not sure if helpful or not. I had a 2014 FFE and the range wouldn't get past 56 or 58 (approx a 25 % degradation from the original 76) circa 2019. Only 4-5 year old at that point. had almost 80k miles on it.
I took it to the dealer, had them test it no problem found. They agreed this was a high rate of degradation but they couldn't do anything since everything tested fine.
I was commuting 40 miles to work everyday, but losing at least 10 miles in the hills. I was barely getting to work anymore. No Heat. No AC. Nothing.
They said to file a complaint with Ford corporate and see if they could authorize a battery swap.
This took several weeks back and forth, but I was able to work with a tech that let me know the battery was still technically under the BATTERY warranty. They had to dig deep to find it, but ultimately they authorized it.
Something along the lines of:
Electric Component Warranty. Your vehicle’s unique electric components are covered during the Electric Unique Component Coverage, which lasts for 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first. Please refer to your Warranty Guide for coverage details.
(This was pulled from a Ford Brochure)
There's a certain degree of degradation expected, but excessive in my case got me a green light.

The Dealer mechanic was on my side, and helped wear down corporate, but in the end persistence paid off. Multiple calls to corporate. Case numbers. Calls to the mechanic at the dealership. More calls to the case contact at Ford. Got a refurb battery. Can drive "72" miles again.

 

[Frosty]

Does anyone know what Ford's official definition is of acceptable "degradation over time" as this phrase is used in their battery warranty language to limit their liability?

I have a 2017 Focus electric whose battery has lost somewhere around 20% of its capacity (give or take), so somewhere around 3% a year. It's well under the 100k mile limit. Do I have a valid warranty claim to make?

Does anyone have any experience with such borderline issues?

[-tv]

Not a direct answer but more of a how I'm doing so far reply. I have a 2015 FFE so my max was 76 miles when new (according to Ford), but in reality, in Chicago, in the Summer it would charge up to 95 miles, in the Winter maybe 70 miles, Spring and Fall, 80ish.
Now it's just over 8 years old and has 40K miles on it, it charges up to 80 in Summer and more like 60 in the Winter, Spring and Fall, 70ish. I have kept this car plugged in to a 240v charger at least 90% of the time (ABC always be charging).
I take very good care of my car it's in exceptional condition, it hurts a bit to think it might be a beautiful brick in as little as 5 years or so.

 

[PlainTom]

Thanks for the info ... very useful.
We're thinking that as long as we have a longer range EV in the garage, and the FFE's systems continue to function, it will be useful and not a brick.
Best of luck with yours!

 

[bradleydad]

Our 2014 Focus was doing fine in 2018 at about 65000 miles and no error code when it suddenly died. It seems there is a known problem with the battery. Ford said there is no repair and there is no replacement. The Focus still looked new but it was worthless. After sitting for months while we tried litigation finally it was off to the scrap yard it went. Luckily it had just been paid off. There was nothing anyone could do.

 

[wind_driven]

Our 2014 Focus was doing fine in 2018 at about 65000 miles and no error code when it suddenly died. It seems there is a known problem with the battery. Ford said there is no repair and there is no replacement. The Focus still looked new but it was worthless. After sitting for months while we tried litigation finally it was off to the scrap yard it went. Luckily it had just been paid off. There was nothing anyone could do.

So, your 2014 Focus was still under the “8 years or 100,000 miles” warranty, but Ford wouldn’t cover any repairs or buyout?

 

[bkeil84]

Keeping it plugged in all the time may be the culprit here. Even though 100% is not truly 100%, but more like 90%, that is still to high to keep it at for long periods. I only plug mine in when it gets below 40-50% and then only just before the next use. It is also not advisable to get below 10% often. I do have the luxort of having the later model with the bigger battery and fast charging for those occasional forgetful moment when I did not plug it in. The larger battery also only uses one charge cycle per 120 miles, where the smaller one only gets 89 miles per cycle. This will reduce the life by 50% or more. This is also one of the reasons that Tesla refuses to put smaller batteries in their cars. Smaller battery means more charge cycles translating into shorter life. I think the FFE battery will only last about 1000 cycles if not taken care of an up to 2000 cycles if kept closer to the goldilocks zone. Many batteries today are rated for twice the lifespan if only used from 30-80%. Mine currently sits in the garage with about 50% and has not been charged in several days and probably not again for a day or two after some more use. It is my opinion that always keeping it plugged in will shorten the life of the battery. Mine currently has 65k miles and I routinely get 120+ miles of range on average. More in the summer and less in the winter.

Not a direct answer but more of a how I'm doing so far reply. I have a 2015 FFE so my max was 76 miles when new (according to Ford), but in reality, in Chicago, in the Summer it would charge up to 95 miles, in the Winter maybe 70 miles, Spring and Fall, 80ish.
Now it's just over 8 years old and has 40K miles on it, it charges up to 80 in Summer and more like 60 in the Winter, Spring and Fall, 70ish. I have kept this car plugged in to a 240v charger at least 90% of the time (ABC always be charging).
I take very good care of my car it's in exceptional condition, it hurts a bit to think it might be a beautiful brick in as little as 5 years or so.

 

[Anti_Climax]

If you leave it plugged in after it has fully charged it will eventually start performing a cell balance.

Does anyone have actual longevity data on this cell chemistry? Capacity vs temp, discharge rate, recharge rate, max soc, min soc, storage soc, etc. I've heard similar anecdotes about charge and discharge limits but haven't seen anything to suggest a difference in degradation that would be noticable relative to the purely cycle-count dependent loss that will happen no matter what.

I totally get that it may be "better" and even quantifiable, but without knowing what the actual difference is it's hard to know if it's even worth the effort. Even the "fast charging will kill your capacity" warnings of the early EV days don't seem to have panned out. I do recall seeing data for early LEAFs and the folks that regularly fast charged had capacities that fell within the spread for others that never fast charged at all.

 

[wagstump]

I have a 2014 and I always leave it plugged in. I have seen very little, if any, degradation over the last (almost) 10 years.
In my opinion, if there is some magic formula to keep the batteries at optimal capacity, the engineers should program the car to do whatever it needs to do. I like having a full charge every time I pull out of the garage.

 

[Anti_Climax]

Living in Arizona, the battery will heat soak to the point of throwing a Stop Now error if it's not left plugged in to run the conditioning.

I can confirm that the onboard charger stops at exactly 95% SoC and empty is 8.35%, though there is a 1kWh reserve below that. The upper is probably the same for the smaller pack while the lower is probably different to accommodate that reserve.

When I got my '12 in 2016, the original pack had about 40k miles and had lost 25% of the original capacity. I believe the usable EtE is 19kWh on them at the start. I know the car had come from California, though I don't know where. Being a '12 it would have no fast charging history.

Since getting the new battery in 2018, I've put more than 50K miles on it and my EtE is about 25.5kWh, though it varies with temp. That included close to a year stored at full charge (when I was trying to figure out that damn cooling problem).

So in an environment that is practically certain to be hotter, being stored at full charge whenever it's not driven, being stored at full charge and left there for close to a year, putting more miles on it than the last battery saw and fairly regularly running it down, I have less than half the capacity loss compared to the original.

The only thing I don't do is drive it "hard" with regularity. I'm pretty sure constant lead foot driving is more problematic than anything else and moderate acceleration can easily pull 100A (have I mentioned my ScanGauge?). That certainly seems more likely in a lot of CA locations.