New/used for roughly 100 mile (soon 2b 70) daily round trip?

[blackbeasst]

**started the same topic over at the leaf forum. just thought i'd get some input here as well**

debating heavily about going with an EV due to the amount of gas im spending going to/from work each month. been doing a lot of research and finally decided to register and post up to see what current owners think before i jump in to something that isn't good for my conditions.

i live in athens, ga and work in lawrenceville. ga. my daily round trip commute is just shy of 100 miles with 90% of it on hwy 316. come august that will be cut down to about 70 miles RT after we move.

i would be adding a charger at the house and as far as i know i would have access to a plain old outlet at work for the time being (i'll find that out first before i buy of course!).

right off the bat i see about a dozen of 12's and 13's on autotrader that stand out just due to the price. but how will driving 1400 miles/month affect a used FFE? also, there is a good bit of construction that makes me go no more than 10mph for a stretch of 10 miles. not sure how that would kill the charge as well

im currently in an 09 jetta tdi getting roughly 40mpg and with my car payment and gas per month im around $500/ish. so a $30k 2014 will almost be not worth depending on the finance.

any thoughts/comments/questions/concerns are welcomed

 

[jmueller065]

makes me go no more than 10mph for a stretch of 10 miles. not sure how that would kill the charge as well

This actually works in your favor: EVs go farther the slower you go so if you're only going 10 miles per hour you'll get a lot further than at 65 mph.
I know people who still aren't used to that: They will get concerned sitting in a traffic jam when riding with me, even though the range estimate actually creeps UP while we're puttering along... LOL

 

[Kakkerlak]

I had been wondering about stop-and-go traffic performance. Obviously if you're running the climate control will make a big difference.

Last week we had a damaged expansion joint on the I-5 through Seattle that jammed traffic all day. I was stuck on the express lanes and took about three hours to go two miles. The jam was worsened at times by people who ran out of fuel in the backup.

I have a first-generation Honda Insight that usually averages 50 MPG, but reset the trip fuel gauge as an experiment. Even with the automatic idle shutoff, I got an average of 14 MPG for those two miles.

I like to think a BEV would have happily inched through that traffic without losing too much range.

Does anyone else have experience driving a BEV through badly jammed traffic ?

 

[blackbeasst]

i shouldn't have any problems hooking this bad boy up to a 240 at the house and then using a 110 at the office for 8 hours to get me back to my 240 should i?

the leaf guys say it shouldn't be a problem with the leafs. just trying to weigh my options here!

im loving the looks both in and out of the FFE over the leaf, but just want to make 100% sure of what im getting . of course the closet one to me is about 175 miles away in hilton head. its a 13 with 2k miles for $24k

 

[ElSupreme]

i shouldn't have any problems hooking this bad boy up to a 240 at the house and then using a 110 at the office for 8 hours to get me back to my 240 should i?

the leaf guys say it shouldn't be a problem with the leafs. just trying to weigh my options here!

im loving the looks both in and out of the FFE over the leaf, but just want to make 100% sure of what im getting . of course the closet one to me is about 175 miles away in hilton head. its a 13 with 2k miles for $24k

You should be fine as long as you get your 110VAC charge every day at work. I would make sure you have access to that circuit breaker in case it trips. In the winter you might need to take it easy. Turn off the heat and not drive 75+ if you get the chance.

One thing to note. There is a CHaDeMo (Quickcharge) station at Nissan Dealers between Athens and Lawrenceville. (plugshare.com, Nissan of Athens) which might make the LEAF a little bit more attractive (depending on your actual end points). But honestly the FFE is so much nicer for the same cost. Not to mention active battery temperature management is a huge plus for longevity of the battery pack.

 

[ElSupreme]

i shouldn't have any problems hooking this bad boy up to a 240 at the house and then using a 110 at the office for 8 hours to get me back to my 240 should i?

the leaf guys say it shouldn't be a problem with the leafs. just trying to weigh my options here!

im loving the looks both in and out of the FFE over the leaf, but just want to make 100% sure of what im getting . of course the closet one to me is about 175 miles away in hilton head. its a 13 with 2k miles for $24k

Do remember that if you have federal and state tax liability you get credits if you purchase new. So a $30,000 sticker (after Ford incentive) 2014 would be $12.5k ($7.5k federal, and $5k Georgia) less or ~$17.5k for the full car (after you get the rebates) and might be a better purchase decision if you can float the money a few months.

 

[blackbeasst]

i shouldn't have any problems hooking this bad boy up to a 240 at the house and then using a 110 at the office for 8 hours to get me back to my 240 should i?

the leaf guys say it shouldn't be a problem with the leafs. just trying to weigh my options here!

im loving the looks both in and out of the FFE over the leaf, but just want to make 100% sure of what im getting . of course the closet one to me is about 175 miles away in hilton head. its a 13 with 2k miles for $24k

Do remember that if you have federal and state tax liability you get credits if you purchase new. So a $30,000 sticker (after Ford incentive) 2014 would be $12.5k ($7.5k federal, and $5k Georgia) less or ~$17.5k for the full car (after you get the rebates) and might be a better purchase decision if you can float the money a few months.

yeah the whole credits/incentives/tax break is kinda confusing. there is a 2014 http://bit.ly/1ookLA1 at the athens ford dealer, but i don't see anything about the incentives/credits. do all FFE qualify for it?

 

[blackbeasst]

i shouldn't have any problems hooking this bad boy up to a 240 at the house and then using a 110 at the office for 8 hours to get me back to my 240 should i?

the leaf guys say it shouldn't be a problem with the leafs. just trying to weigh my options here!

im loving the looks both in and out of the FFE over the leaf, but just want to make 100% sure of what im getting . of course the closet one to me is about 175 miles away in hilton head. its a 13 with 2k miles for $24k

You should be fine as long as you get your 110VAC charge every day at work. I would make sure you have access to that circuit breaker in case it trips. In the winter you might need to take it easy. Turn off the heat and not drive 75+ if you get the chance.

One thing to note. There is a CHaDeMo (Quickcharge) station at Nissan Dealers between Athens and Lawrenceville. (plugshare.com, Nissan of Athens) which might make the LEAF a little bit more attractive (depending on your actual end points). But honestly the FFE is so much nicer for the same cost. Not to mention active battery temperature management is a huge plus for longevity of the battery pack.

our facilities guy said if we did it he would probably put it on its on to prevent the tripping.

 

[ElSupreme]

yeah the whole credits/incentives/tax break is kinda confusing. there is a 2014 http://bit.ly/1ookLA1 at the athens ford dealer, but i don't see anything about the incentives/credits. do all FFE qualify for it?

There are three incentives going for NEW (only new vehicles) FFEs. Two of which are for all NEW EVs in GEORGIA!

1. Federal Tax Credit. You get up to $7,500 credit on your tax return. You must have $7,500 of federal tax liability or you will only get part of the credit. (You can NOT roll over to the next year).
2. State Tax Credit (Georgia residents only). You get up to $5000 credit on your tax return. You must have $5000 state tax liability or you will only get part of the credit (not sure if you can roll the rest to next year for the state).

Both of the above are for ALL NEW BEVs sold in Georgia!

3. Ford manufacturer incentive for Ford Focus Electric. Good until July 7, 2014, and 'from dealer stock'. Also 0% apr for 60 months for qualified buyers! (http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/incentives/)

 

[blackbeasst]

yeah the whole credits/incentives/tax break is kinda confusing. there is a 2014 http://bit.ly/1ookLA1 at the athens ford dealer, but i don't see anything about the incentives/credits. do all FFE qualify for it?

There are three incentives going for NEW (only new vehicles) FFEs. Two of which are for all NEW EVs in GEORGIA!

1. Federal Tax Credit. You get up to $7,500 credit on your tax return. You must have $7,500 of federal tax liability or you will only get part of the credit. (You can NOT roll over to the next year).
2. State Tax Credit (Georgia residents only). You get up to $5000 credit on your tax return. You must have $5000 state tax liability or you will only get part of the credit (not sure if you can roll the rest to next year for the state).

Both of the above are for ALL NEW BEVs sold in Georgia!

3. Ford manufacturer incentive for Ford Focus Electric. Good until July 7, 2014, and 'from dealer stock'. Also 0% apr for 60 months for qualified buyers! (http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/incentives/)

so if i don't have $7500/5000 in tax liability, that incentive does me no good correct?

and whats the deal here on the ford website? are there incentives that come off the top when being leased?



Base MSRP 1 $35,170
Total of Options2 0
Destination Charges $825
Estimated Capitalized Cost3 $35,995
Available Incentives4
-
$11,000
Net Price 5 $24,995
Down Payment
-
0
Net Trade-In Value6
-
0
Adjusted Capitalized Cost7 $24,995
319 $
Monthly Payment8

36 month term, 18,000 miles/yr, $964 due at signing9

 

[hybridbear]

yeah the whole credits/incentives/tax break is kinda confusing. there is a 2014 http://bit.ly/1ookLA1 at the athens ford dealer, but i don't see anything about the incentives/credits. do all FFE qualify for it?

There are three incentives going for NEW (only new vehicles) FFEs. Two of which are for all NEW EVs in GEORGIA!

1. Federal Tax Credit. You get up to $7,500 credit on your tax return. You must have $7,500 of federal tax liability or you will only get part of the credit. (You can NOT roll over to the next year).
2. State Tax Credit (Georgia residents only). You get up to $5000 credit on your tax return. You must have $5000 state tax liability or you will only get part of the credit (not sure if you can roll the rest to next year for the state).

Both of the above are for ALL NEW BEVs sold in Georgia!

3. Ford manufacturer incentive for Ford Focus Electric. Good until July 7, 2014, and 'from dealer stock'. Also 0% apr for 60 months for qualified buyers! (http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/incentives/)

so if i don't have $7500/5000 in tax liability, that incentive does me no good correct?

and whats the deal here on the ford website? are there incentives that come off the top when being leased?



Base MSRP 1 $35,170
Total of Options2 0
Destination Charges $825
Estimated Capitalized Cost3 $35,995
Available Incentives4
-
$11,000
Net Price 5 $24,995
Down Payment
-
0
Net Trade-In Value6
-
0
Adjusted Capitalized Cost7 $24,995
319 $
Monthly Payment8

36 month term, 18,000 miles/yr, $964 due at signing9

The leasing company (Ford) gets to claim the $7k Federal Tax Refund when you lease. I'm not sure how the GA rebate works when you lease. The other $4k of the $11k is a Ford incentive to reduce the capitalized cost.

 

[ElSupreme]

yeah the whole credits/incentives/tax break is kinda confusing. there is a 2014 http://bit.ly/1ookLA1 at the athens ford dealer, but i don't see anything about the incentives/credits. do all FFE qualify for it?

There are three incentives going for NEW (only new vehicles) FFEs. Two of which are for all NEW EVs in GEORGIA!

1. Federal Tax Credit. You get up to $7,500 credit on your tax return. You must have $7,500 of federal tax liability or you will only get part of the credit. (You can NOT roll over to the next year).
2. State Tax Credit (Georgia residents only). You get up to $5000 credit on your tax return. You must have $5000 state tax liability or you will only get part of the credit (not sure if you can roll the rest to next year for the state).

Both of the above are for ALL NEW BEVs sold in Georgia!

3. Ford manufacturer incentive for Ford Focus Electric. Good until July 7, 2014, and 'from dealer stock'. Also 0% apr for 60 months for qualified buyers! (http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/incentives/)

so if i don't have $7500/5000 in tax liability, that incentive does me no good correct?

and whats the deal here on the ford website? are there incentives that come off the top when being leased?



Base MSRP 1 $35,170
Total of Options2 0
Destination Charges $825
Estimated Capitalized Cost3 $35,995
Available Incentives4
-
$11,000
Net Price 5 $24,995
Down Payment
-
0
Net Trade-In Value6
-
0
Adjusted Capitalized Cost7 $24,995
319 $
Monthly Payment8

36 month term, 18,000 miles/yr, $964 due at signing9

The federal rebate is for purchases ONLY. So the $11k ford lease incentive includes the $7500 federal tax rebate (as Ford claims it as the title holder). I think the state rebate is also only for purchases (not 100% as I purchased both my EVs).

If you don't have that tax liability then you only qualify for the amount that you have tax liability (you have $3k tax liability, you get back $3k) I don't know if the state rebate you can roll over to the next year and claim part year one, then the rest year two. $5000 state tax liability is fairly high. Again you would have to research this more as I don't know.

 

[hybridbear]

My big concern in your situation would be range. Charging at 120 V you will add about 3.8 miles per hour of charging (right?). That's based on Ford saying 20 hours to charge at 120 V to the 76 mile EPA range. That doesn't add many miles during an 8 hour workday. Suppose you actually add 4 miles per hour, that means you'd add 32 miles in 8 hours. If you add 76 miles of full charge range in the morning plus 32 miles during the day you only get to 108 miles of total range. That would be pushing it very close. You'd likely need to limit your freeway speed to 55-60 MPH when you're doing the 50 mile one-way commute.

Once you move and are only commuting 35 miles one-way there won't be a range concern.

How long until you move? Perhaps you might be better off waiting until right after you move to get an electric car. Or perhaps someone else in the house could use it for commuting until the move?

Also, you probably won't want to install a 240 V charging station in your current house & then have to install it again in the new house.

 

[blackbeasst]

The leasing company (Ford) gets to claim the $7k Federal Tax Refund when you lease. I'm not sure how the GA rebate works when you lease. The other $4k of the $11k is a Ford incentive to reduce the capitalized cost.

cool. not sure i wanna go the lease route or not. although for $25k and 18k a year thats semi doable :mrgreen:

what are some thoughts on a 2013 with 2k miles on it? is $24k too much or about on par?

 

[hybridbear]

After re-reading the first post I have a couple additional thoughts on range:

With a 70 mile round trip commute and only 120 V charging at work I would definitely want a Focus Electric over a Leaf due to the thermal management system differences. Even more so based on that fact that you prefer to purchase rather than lease. Leaf batteries have been more susceptible to degradation over time due to higher thermal stress since they aren't liquid cooled. If you're buying a used BEV and aren't getting the tax credits you must be planning to keep it a long time. This makes the capacity loss a bigger issue.

When temps are below freezing your range might be reduced to only 45-50 miles on a charge. In this case, you'd have 10-15 miles of range left when you get to work and then the 32 miles of 120 V charging would be essential for you to get home. If you get a Leaf and lose 20% of your capacity in a few years then you'd be in trouble!

 

[hybridbear]

what are some thoughts on a 2013 with 2k miles on it? is $24k too much or about on par?

Considering that you can get a new 2014 Focus Electric for less than that after the tax rebates (assuming you qualify for all of them) then I'd say that the aforementioned deal isn't that great. If you're poor like us and don't make enough to pay $7k in Federal Income taxes in a year then that deal potentially compares favorably to the current lease offers since you wouldn't reap the full Fed Tax benefit anyway.

 

[blackbeasst]

My big concern in your situation would be range. Charging at 120 V you will add about 3.8 miles per hour of charging (right?). That's based on Ford saying 20 hours to charge at 120 V to the 76 mile EPA range. That doesn't add many miles during an 8 hour workday. Suppose you actually add 4 miles per hour, that means you'd add 32 miles in 8 hours. If you add 76 miles of full charge range in the morning plus 32 miles during the day you only get to 108 miles of total range. That would be pushing it very close. You'd likely need to limit your freeway speed to 55-60 MPH when you're doing the 50 mile one-way commute.

Once you move and are only commuting 35 miles one-way there won't be a range concern.

How long until you move? Perhaps you might be better off waiting until right after you move to get an electric car. Or perhaps someone else in the house could use it for commuting until the move?

Also, you probably won't want to install a 240 V charging station in your current house & then have to install it again in the new house.

august 4 will start my 35 mile one way commute. im just trying to cram as much info as possible to give to my facilities guy here at work to make sure IF i go this route that im good to charge here at work starting 8/4

 

[jmueller065]

The $11,000 incentive includes the federal $7500 tax credit: When leasing Ford Credit gets the $7500 tax break and they pass that back to the leasee.
This also means that if you don't qualify for the full $7500 tax credit for purchasing, you can still get it if you lease.

(Wow..read all the responses before replying! LOL)

 

[scoops]

I live in athens, ga and work in lawrenceville. ga. my daily round trip commute is just shy of 100 miles with 90% of it on hwy 316. come august that will be cut down to about 70 miles RT after we move.

FWIW I've driven from Midtown to Athens (70 miles) and had about 18 miles left. Speed matters; I was driving pretty relaxed (not my usual style). Not a trip I'd want to do every day. Would not be comfortable in the winter. On the way back I knew that I could go faster so I ended up with ~7 miles left.

Since your facilities guy said he could give you your own breaker... why not a 240v circut?

 

[hybridbear]

I live in athens, ga and work in lawrenceville. ga. my daily round trip commute is just shy of 100 miles with 90% of it on hwy 316. come august that will be cut down to about 70 miles RT after we move.

FWIW I've driven from Midtown to Athens (70 miles) and had about 18 miles left. Speed matters; I was driving pretty relaxed (not my usual style). Not a trip I'd want to do every day. Would not be comfortable in the winter. On the way back I knew that I could go faster so I ended up with ~7 miles left.

Since your facilities guy said he could give you your own breaker... why not a 240v circut?

That's a great suggestion. Then you could use a TurboCord 240 V charger since it's portable to charge at work. That would get you about 10 miles per hour of charge I believe.