Nissan's batteries are bulletproof...news about ours?

[Olagon]

Good to see Nissan sharing the news that 99.99% of their batteries are performing at spec in Europe (3 failures out of 35K). Anyone see recent news on the FFE battery reliability over time?

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/25/nissan-says-leaf-battery-packs-are-nearly-bulletproof/

 

[michael]

I don't think this means much. "Success rate"...what does that mean? Out and out failures? Performing at spec? All manufacturers report that long term degradation is normal and must be accepted...that is within spec. Nissan batteries are infamous for degradation. And in Europe, with moderate temperatures, degradation is expected to be lower than in hotter climates such as we have in the US.

Musk once said something to the effect that if all Teslas were in Alaska, the batteries would last almost forever.

And I would happily tolerate a few FFE batteries failing outright and needing replacement far more than I would accept Nissan's well known degradation.

 

[brogult]

And I would happily tolerate a few FFE batteries failing outright and needing replacement far more than I would accept Nissan's well known degradation.

Would I be correct that this is based on the assumption that the failure is covered by a warranty and not paid for out-of-pocket by you? Obviously the inconvenience of having the car in for a warranty repair is probably less important to you than a significant reduction in range, but what if you owned the car and the repair was costing you $10K?

 

[Rogerschro]

And I would happily tolerate a few FFE batteries failing outright and needing replacement far more than I would accept Nissan's well known degradation.

Would I be correct that this is based on the assumption that the failure is covered by a warranty and not paid for out-of-pocket by you? Obviously the inconvenience of having the car in for a warranty repair is probably less important to you than a significant reduction in range, but what if you owned the car and the repair was costing you $10K?

I've though about that. I bought my FFE instead of leasing it, so some day, repairs are on me. My though is that if the day comes when I have to pay for a battery repair, and assuming the car is structurally sound otherwise, $10k to replace the whole battery is still cheaper than a new car. Also, it is far more likely that only a portion of the battery will be in need of replacement, that the cost will be lower due to production costs, and/or there will be an improved version that will be better with greater range. (or I will just sell it off for what I can get for it and buy a new one.) Whatever I have spent on this car is long gone. It is Not an investment, it is transportation. Long term reliability and possible failure is preferable to me than slow degradation and the inherent problems that (may) causes on a daily basis. I'm a Beta tester as some would suggest.... we'll see how I feel about this if it comes to pass...

 

[michael]

And I would happily tolerate a few FFE batteries failing outright and needing replacement far more than I would accept Nissan's well known degradation.

Would I be correct that this is based on the assumption that the failure is covered by a warranty and not paid for out-of-pocket by you? Obviously the inconvenience of having the car in for a warranty repair is probably less important to you than a significant reduction in range, but what if you owned the car and the repair was costing you $10K?

Yes of course, that goes without saying. Good thing that warranty lasts for so long. And good thing those wanting to keep the car longer can buy ESP. But same token, battery degradation is quite common, especially in Leaf, and the owners of the crippled cars get nothing. 60K mile Leaf with 40 mile range...not covered.


From the Ford warranty

The Lithium-ion battery (EV battery) will experience gradual capacity loss with time and use (similar to all lithium-ion batteries), which is considered normal wear and tear. Loss of battery capacity due to or resulting from gradual capacity loss is NOT covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty. See your Owner’s Manual for important tips on how to maximize the life and capacity of the Lithium-ion battery.


But all I'm really saying is Nissan's claim that the batteries are performing to spec is lame. They wear out fast.

 

[EVA]

Ah, you all read too much in to that statement. They are saying only 3 batteries have out and out failed - as in they don't work any more. There is no mention of range reduction or people unhappy with battery degradation (in the Nissan press release - Mr. Genius in the video says all kinds of crazy things, but he doesn't work for Nissan). It is strictly battery failure. The unspoken word is their rate is way lower than a gasoline engine.

Here's the quote from the Nissan press release:

"99.99 percent of its battery units remain entirely fit for purpose."

The linked video is pretty darn funny. The guy got a lot of things way wrong or a little twisted crazy.

At one point he says something like - a typical family can charge it once per week.

The around 2 minute mark is worth watching - he talks about the Top Gear Nissan Leaf, and the lady that owns that exact car they drove.

 

[EVA]

Hey - what kind of batteries are inside the FFE pack? I see the Nissan is these specialized flat batteries. Tesla uses round laptop batteries. What does Ford use?

More funny videos - a guy goes to a junkyard to pick up a Leaf battery. Yeah, you don't get to see him pull the battery.
https://youtu.be/S3mk39tntTg

Ben keeps going - takes apart the full battery:
https://youtu.be/h0dDHJKzX78

Ben finishes the job:
https://youtu.be/h0dDHJKzX78

Here's a guy taking apart one of the cell packs in the battery pack (take the wrapping off the pack):
https://youtu.be/WcqaAz1vjlo

Part 2
https://youtu.be/VeTxXkBAc60

Third and final video to get the big flat cells apart:
https://youtu.be/J3kbQPb_kbA

 

[hybridbear]

Ah, you all read too much in to that statement. They are saying only 3 batteries have out and out failed - as in they don't work any more. There is no mention of range reduction or people unhappy with battery degradation (in the Nissan press release - Mr. Genius in the video says all kinds of crazy things, but he doesn't work for Nissan). It is strictly battery failure. The unspoken word is their rate is way lower than a gasoline engine.

Here's the quote from the Nissan press release:

"99.99 percent of its battery units remain entirely fit for purpose."

The linked video is pretty darn funny. The guy got a lot of things way wrong or a little twisted crazy.

At one point he says something like - a typical family can charge it once per week.

The around 2 minute mark is worth watching - he talks about the Top Gear Nissan Leaf, and the lady that owns that exact car they drove.

What linked video? The video in the Autoblog article from post 1 is just a short video review of the 2013 Leaf. He doesn't talk about batteries at all...

 

[EVA]

Ah, you all read too much in to that statement. They are saying only 3 batteries have out and out failed - as in they don't work any more. There is no mention of range reduction or people unhappy with battery degradation (in the Nissan press release - Mr. Genius in the video says all kinds of crazy things, but he doesn't work for Nissan). It is strictly battery failure. The unspoken word is their rate is way lower than a gasoline engine.

Here's the quote from the Nissan press release:

"99.99 percent of its battery units remain entirely fit for purpose."

The linked video is pretty darn funny. The guy got a lot of things way wrong or a little twisted crazy.

At one point he says something like - a typical family can charge it once per week.

The around 2 minute mark is worth watching - he talks about the Top Gear Nissan Leaf, and the lady that owns that exact car they drove.

What linked video? The video in the Autoblog article from post 1 is just a short video review of the 2013 Leaf. He doesn't talk about batteries at all...

Aw sorry about that. It was a minor link inside the Nissan Press release. Yeah, not the big boy with the beard video.

Here is the video I was talking about:
https://youtu.be/6V1bJJwJhEg

 

[hybridbear]

Ah, you all read too much in to that statement. They are saying only 3 batteries have out and out failed - as in they don't work any more. There is no mention of range reduction or people unhappy with battery degradation (in the Nissan press release - Mr. Genius in the video says all kinds of crazy things, but he doesn't work for Nissan). It is strictly battery failure. The unspoken word is their rate is way lower than a gasoline engine.

Here's the quote from the Nissan press release:

"99.99 percent of its battery units remain entirely fit for purpose."

The linked video is pretty darn funny. The guy got a lot of things way wrong or a little twisted crazy.

At one point he says something like - a typical family can charge it once per week.

The around 2 minute mark is worth watching - he talks about the Top Gear Nissan Leaf, and the lady that owns that exact car they drove.

What linked video? The video in the Autoblog article from post 1 is just a short video review of the 2013 Leaf. He doesn't talk about batteries at all...

Aw sorry about that. It was a minor link inside the Nissan Press release. Yeah, not the big boy with the beard video.

Here is the video I was talking about:
https://youtu.be/6V1bJJwJhEg

So this video with misinformation comes from Nissan themselves??? That's so odd!!!