One of the best sales person I have met

[Tim Jodice]

I was planning on picking up my 2013 car last Friday and it did not go as planned. Here is what happened, called me thursday and said the car was having problems and needed a recall preformed. He called me Friday and said " I don't want to sell you this car" I don't have any 2014 in white so want to order you one. I ask why he said " I don't like selling cars that have problems before they are even sold and have been reading on batteries and found sitting with unknown charge levels might not me good long term this car was built 12/12. because you will be putting the miles on I need to give you the best I can. The car will be built for mid December delivery. I said that is different, most car salesmen want to sell as fast as they can. He said " I have been selling cars since 84 and selling Fords since 91, I will still be here in Dec and still have my bills to pay. I want you to show it off to your friends and refer them to me. So that's the plan for now.

 

[jmueller065]

Wow! If my sales person told me that I would have replied: "You've just found a customer for life!" LOL

 

[EVA]

Nice Tim. A rare sales person that cares about customer service first.

Sorry you won't the car sooner. I know you were all ready to go.

 

[jstack6]

I was planning on picking up my 2013 car last Friday and it did not go as planned.

Let us know how it turns out in Dec. I've had mine 6 months and enjoy EVeryday driving it.

 

[Tim Jodice]

I was planning on picking up my 2013 car last Friday and it did not go as planned.

Let us know how it turns out in Dec. I've had mine 6 months and enjoy EVeryday driving it.

Now he Does not think I should buy it. He Was advised that I would be unhappy because it would not make 61 miles all the time. For a salesman to sugest not to Buy someting has got me thinking. Do you current owners think I am unrealistic expecting that Range out of the Car? Read Need Opinions thread to get an idea of me and My commute. Thanks.

 

[davideos]

If you have big hills, your range will be cut going one way, but increased going the other. Driving style also plays into range as well if using the heater a lot. I live in southern california, slight downhill to work, don't use the heater too much, and 4/5 of my driving is on the Fwy at 75mph and my range is about 70 miles. To go a little further one time, I drove behind the slowest car on the freeway, about 55-60mph, and got a range of well over 90 miles on flat driving.

61 miles wouldn't leave me much margin, but it all depends on your driving style and commute conditions. Maybe there is a FFE owner near you who could give you a test run?

 

[jmueller065]

The past few days here (in Michigan) the temperatures have plummeted: in the low 20s F each morning and mid 30s on my way home (and sunny).
For our winters this is about average (in late Dec, Jan, and Feb it can get a bit colder but not often).
My morning commute is just a shade over 15 miles.
In August I could arrive with 80% remaining on the battery (temps in the 80s sometimes 90s)
In Sept/Oct I would usually arrive with 77% remaining on the battery (temps in the 60s/70s)
This morning the car is sitting with 73% on the battery (this was commuting in using no HVAC and had the car prewarm itself up to 85F). Tuesday I used the most electricity I've ever used on my commute arriving with only 68% battery left.
So I'm noticing a range decrease with the temperature drop but not as much as I expected it to be (the car is still reporting every morning with 80+ miles of range despite the temp).

 

[Tim Jodice]

The past few days here (in Michigan) the temperatures have plummeted: in the low 20s F each morning and mid 30s on my way home (and sunny).
For our winters this is about average (in late Dec, Jan, and Feb it can get a bit colder but not often).
My morning commute is just a shade over 15 miles.
In August I could arrive with 80% remaining on the battery (temps in the 80s sometimes 90s)
In Sept/Oct I would usually arrive with 77% remaining on the battery (temps in the 60s/70s)
This morning the car is sitting with 73% on the battery (this was commuting in using no HVAC and had the car prewarm itself up to 85F). Tuesday I used the most electricity I've ever used on my commute arriving with only 68% battery left.
So I'm noticing a range decrease with the temperature drop but not as much as I expected it to be (the car is still reporting every morning with 80+ miles of range despite the temp).

I would be happy with a 20 mi reserve on cold days only to have more on warmer days.

 

[michael]

I was planning on picking up my 2013 car last Friday and it did not go as planned.

Let us know how it turns out in Dec. I've had mine 6 months and enjoy EVeryday driving it.

Now he Does not think I should buy it. He Was advised that I would be unhappy because it would not make 61 miles all the time. For a salesman to sugest not to Buy someting has got me thinking. Do you current owners think I am unrealistic expecting that Range out of the Car? Read Need Opinions thread to get an idea of me and My commute. Thanks.

You might look into the BMW i3. It would be pure electric in good weather but give you the security of a gas engine if you needed it

 

[jmueller065]

Well the BMW i3 isn't supposed to be available until next year and its already 5 months backordered--he would be lucky to have one by this time next year!

http://insideevs.com/ahead-of-us-orders-bmw-i3-wait-times-extend-up-to-5-months/

 

[michael]

Right but if the FFE won't make his commute better to wait. Alternative is Volt or hybrid

 

[dmen]

Tuesday I used the most electricity I've ever used on my commute arriving with only 68% battery left.
So I'm noticing a range decrease with the temperature drop but not as much as I expected it to be (the car is still reporting every morning with 80+ miles of range despite the temp).

Your car reporting 80+ miles of range in the morning means nothing. Driving 15 miles using 32% of the battery translates to a range of 49 miles if you continue to drive the same way, which I assume is highway driving around 65mph as Tim will be driving. Were you expecting a bigger decrease than this? I guess you'll see it in February.

I drove a 63 mile route in the same weather Monday morning (temp right at 30). I charged to full, warmed the car to 85, and drove a 2-lane country highway at speed limit 45-55mph most of the way. The route involved about 15 miles on a 70mph tollway, but I kept to 65 with the trucks. I left cabin heating off for the entire drive, using cold air to defog the windshield. I made it home with 7 miles range remaining. My point is that the FFE can definitely go 61 miles on a single charge in cold weather, but there's not a lot of wiggle room. Speed really has to be kept in check, and driver/passenger comfort must be sacrificed. In extreme cold, or in snowy conditions when cabin heat cannot be deferred, it might not go that far. Plus, it's reasonable to expect battery capacity to degrade to 90% by around 40000 miles. Will you still make it reliably then?

Tim, I think your dealer is not off the mark in questioning the car's utility for you. Michael's suggestion to consider the i3 is right on. Assuming you want to do pure EV driving as much as you can, it's a better choice than the Volt which will never make your commute on electricity alone even in ideal weather. The Leaf range-wise is on par with the FFE. I guess if you max charge the Leaf you'd be able to do your commute with less risk, but then you'd probably be prematurely degrading the battery with all that max charge/full discharge. And you'd have to drive a Leaf . The next wave of pure EV entries (VW, Kia, Mercedes) are promising range in the 100 range compared to the current field which are all around 75-80. But who knows when they'll be arriving in the USA-not-CA.

 

[Tim Jodice]

Tuesday I used the most electricity I've ever used on my commute arriving with only 68% battery left.
So I'm noticing a range decrease with the temperature drop but not as much as I expected it to be (the car is still reporting every morning with 80+ miles of range despite the temp).

Your car reporting 80+ miles of range in the morning means nothing. Driving 15 miles using 32% of the battery translates to a range of 49 miles if you continue to drive the same way, which I assume is highway driving around 65mph as Tim will be driving. Were you expecting a bigger decrease than this? I guess you'll see it in February.

I drove a 63 mile route in the same weather Monday morning (temp right at 30). I charged to full, warmed the car to 85, and drove a 2-lane country highway at speed limit 45-55mph most of the way. The route involved about 15 miles on a 70mph tollway, but I kept to 65 with the trucks. I left cabin heating off for the entire drive, using cold air to defog the windshield. I made it home with 7 miles range remaining. My point is that the FFE can definitely go 61 miles on a single charge in cold weather, but there's not a lot of wiggle room. Speed really has to be kept in check, and driver/passenger comfort must be sacrificed. In extreme cold, or in snowy conditions when cabin heat cannot be deferred, it might not go that far. Plus, it's reasonable to expect battery capacity to degrade to 90% by around 40000 miles. Will you still make it reliably then?

Tim, I think your dealer is not off the mark in questioning the car's utility for you. Michael's suggestion to consider the i3 is right on. Assuming you want to do pure EV driving as much as you can, it's a better choice than the Volt which will never make your commute on electricity alone even in ideal weather. The Leaf range-wise is on par with the FFE. I guess if you max charge te Leaf you'd be able to do your commute with less risk, but then you'd probably be prematurely degrading the battery with all that max charge/full discharge. And you'd have to drive auu Leaf . The next wave of pure EV entries (VW, Kia, Mercedes) are promising range in the 100 range compared to the current field which are all around 75-80. But who knows when they'll be arriving in the USA-not-CA.

Thank all of you for your feedback. Benz and BMW defeat the purpose of buying an electric car, to save Money. My opinion of a Leaf is ugly. Looks to me like a bullfrog and a tuna had to much to drink one night, 9 month later a Leaf is born. those cars that have over 100 mile Range are not Here yet and I did call My local dealers They dont even know When. Lastly I will still have an ice car on those real cold days I just dont Drive the electric.

 

[davideos]

...on those real cold days I just dont Drive the electric.

Or drive more conservatively, pre-warm via "go times", use seat heaters, or wear a jacket. Assuming that 61 miles is round trip and your destination is work, perhaps you can get an outlet to plug into.

 

[Tim Jodice]

...on those real cold days I just dont Drive the electric.

Or drive more conservatively, pre-warm via "go times", use seat heaters, or wear a jacket. Assuming that 61 miles is round trip and your destination is work, perhaps you can get an outlet to plug into.

61 one way.

 

[michael]

If you are satisfied to drive the FFE only on moderate days and find out if/where you reach limits on really cold days, that's a good option too. I have a BMW as my ICE car, have driven it only twice in the three months I've had the FFE, but it's there when needed. Electric car does not have to be usable every single day to still be great.

I believe you said there were places to charge along your route in case you got into trouble?

One big problem is that the heater is a power hog. Looks like running full blast in excess of 5 KW. I suspect by now some of our other posters will be having experience at cold temps, can provide guidance.

 

[jmueller065]

So far our FFE has seen temps in the low 20s and I haven't burned much more electrons than when it was in the 80s. The trick is to not use the heater at all.

Since you're charging at work (if its level 2), and if you have a regular schedule you can set the go times to precondition the car. In my case I only do it in the morning but on those 20 degree days getting into a car that has been heated to 85F is really nice--and I didn't have to use heat at all during my entire commute. Thus the only additional battery loss I suffered was the system maintaining the battery's temperature.

But your mileage may vary as they say.

I have a coworker with an FFE as well. His commute is more like 25 miles (mine is 15) and his schedule doesn't allow for the use of the go times. His solution has been to use a blanket combined with the seat heater (which is much more efficient than the HVAC heater). To supplement the seat heat he is considering a 12V heated blanket:
http://www.smarthome.com/9209/Maxsa-Innovations-Comfy-Cruise-12V-Electric-Travel-Blanket-Navy-Blue/p.aspx
Note that from the current draw on that page it appears to only use about 50-60W...much less than the HVAC as well.

 

[Tim Jodice]

After reading on here most everyone thinks I will be pushing the limit and the Ford car sales man tells me not to Buy it. he thinks I will be unhappy in 3 years or so When it looses a couple % of Range cutting it even closer or worse unable to make it with out a mid trip charge. I decided to listen to everyone and Cancel the order. Thank you all for your input. Not including Tesla is there an all electric car for sale NOW that has about 100 mile Range or more? My objective is to save money Long term, while it would be bad ass to have a S model at $90K it would take longer Than I am willing to wait.

 

[davideos]

A rav4 is suppose to have 100 mi range. The cost is another $10k more. Although I think you could be fine with the FFE, it isn't guaranteed. A version of the kia soul is coming out next year. That will probably have a better price tag. That too is suppose to have a range greater than 100mi.

Good luck.

 

[v_traveller]

A version of the kia soul is coming out next year. That will probably have a better price tag. That too is suppose to have a range greater than 100mi.

That 100mi+ estimate is for the Euro test cycle, EPA range is expected to be about 90 miles:

"Target range of more than 120 miles (expect 90 or so for an official EPA rating)"

http://insideevs.com/kia-soul-ev-to-launch-in-us-in-2014-with-27-kwh-battery-pack-range-of-more-than-120-miles-and-quick-charge-capability/