Shopping: Ford Focus Electric vs Chevy Spark EV

[oilerlord]

Hello everyone,

First post. I've been researching & shopping for a used BEV on a budget of ~$12,000. After a few months of this, it's become clear that every one has it's compromises. I had the opportunity to drive a Spark EV, which is quite fun with it's big torque. Fun to drive is good to have but efficiency in terms of range, and time to charge the battery is more important to me. We don't have any DC quick charging stations in our city, so the Spark's optional SAE fast charging option is useless where I live. I installed 9.2kW of solar last August and look forward to charging the car at home 99% of the time. For that reason alone, being able to charge at 6.6kW / 3.5 hours (rather than at 3.3kW / 6 hours on the Spark) from empty is a huge plus so I'm leaning toward the Focus.

I like that Ford uses liquid cooling / heating for the battery (as GM does in their BEV's). From what I've found, $12K typically buys a 2013 Focus Electric with ~15,000 miles. I'd love to hear from owners that have over 20,000 miles on their cars, what problems they have had, if you've noticed any battery degradation, and if you've had any regrets with your purchase.

I'll also mention that I'm from Alberta, Canada...and don't have tax credits available on the purchase on a new EV.

Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you.

 

[campfamily]

Welcome to the forum.

So, here's my opinion. On this forum, everybody will say buy the Ford. On the Chevy Spark forum, everybody will say buy the Chevy. Bottom line is, which one do you like? Have you driven them both? I did when I was buying my Ford, and my opinion was that the Spark had much more of an economy car feel, was nowhere near as nice inside, not as much room, not as many features. Reminded me of a rental car. The Ford had many more amenities, much more room inside, and had comparable cost brand new.

When I was buying my car, I narrowed my choices down to the VW Golf, Kia Soul, and Ford Focus. Price independent, I would have gone with the Golf. But, couldn't justify the extra $8K it cost over the Ford.

Keith

 

[oilerlord]

Thanks for that.

We're visiting friends in Carlsbad in a few weeks so I'll finally have the chance to drive one. The "rental car" experience you had with the Spark EV was similar to mine but I did like that the car was relatively light which helps efficiency. I'm assuming that the Focus Electric is basically the same as a Titanium trim level Focus - only heavier, with much less cargo room, and of course, electrified. The Ford certainly has a more luxurious interior.

 

[campfamily]

Thanks for that.

We're visiting friends in Carlsbad in a few weeks so I'll finally have the chance to drive one. The "rental car" experience you had with the Spark EV was similar to mine but I did like that the car was relatively light which helps efficiency. I'm assuming that the Focus Electric is basically the same as a Titanium trim level Focus - only heavier, with much less cargo room, and of course, electrified. The Ford certainly has a more luxurious interior.

Welcome to Southern California! I grew up just east of you, in Vista. I live up closer to LA now.

Yes, the trim on the Focus Electric is the same as the Titanium. It is much nicer with the leather seats, at least I think so. It is heavier. The cargo room is less than a standard ICE Focus, but still pretty decent, particularly with the rear seats down. Much more room for passengers than the Spark.

You shouldn't have any problem finding one to drive, I know my local dealer has three or four of them, at pretty decent prices. Since we in California get $10K back in tax incentives / rebates, the out-the-door price for a new car, not including sales tax or registration, is less than $15K.

Keith

 

[michael]

I find the Spark too small...Focus is a good size

I don't know how the Spark is equipped, but the Focus is very well equipped...all the toys. And I do suggest leather

Battery life is an issue. I'm at 48000 miles and 30 months, and I'm down 20-25%, very noticeable

3kw charging is fine overnight, but it's a hassle for turnaround during the day or if you need to use public charging.

 

[oilerlord]

The Spark is definitely a small car and I could more or less live with that but the 3.3kW charging would drive me nuts. I'm also become quite OCD regarding everything kWh since the installation of our solar:

https://easyview.auroravision.net/easyview/index.html?entityId=7466210

Snow on the roof today, but averaging ~20kWh per day - and up to 38kWh on sunny days. We have net metering but our utility doesn't bank the electricity we export for later use. We get paid 6.5 cents per kWh we export but with fees, we buy electricity at a net of about 10.5 cents. For that reason, I'm much better off putting that electricity into an EV instead of buying gasoline and/or receiving that small export credit from the utility.

The more I think about it, having the ability to charge at 6.6kWh at home allows me the opportunity to take advantage of random sunny periods, and plug in the car when my solar is producing >7kW for a quick and free battery top up. Again, I know this is OCD and I'm only saving a few bucks here and there but I don't like the fact I'm essentially giving my excess electricity away for peanuts while the utility makes a big profit on it.

RE: 20-25% battery degradation at 48,000 miles. This is pretty much what I'm expecting. If I get the car to 100,000 miles, and the battery is 50% done; I'm ok with that.

 

[JTCalif]

Visibility is an aspect that still bugs me about FFE: for my height, views to the sides are blocked significantly by sloping front pillars, and I find it harder to estimate how close the front corners are to obstacles than in older cars. Test drive carefully for yourself.
Otherwise, am happy with this EV, and I recommend it. Have not tried a Chevy version.

 

[kalel14]

I just went through the same decision exercise and bought a 2013 with 14K miles. It is more practical space-wise and has a near-luxury car feel with the smooth, silent power train. I have no regrets. Note that you will see radically reduced range when you heat the car up there in Canada. I live in Florida where it isn't much of an issue.

 

[jmueller065]

Note that you will see radically reduced range when you heat the car up there in Canada.

In my experience I'd get about 50 miles on the coldest days (<0F) and that was with minimal use of the heater.

 

[oilerlord]

If I do decide to drive the car in winter, I'd probably install a diesel heater:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Liqiud-Water-parking-heater-5KW-12V-Diesel-with-Remote-Controller-similar-webasto-hydronic-heater-with-timer/32335554196.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.271.uhOYvE&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2,searchweb201602_3_10036_10035_10034_507_10020_10001_10002_2020017_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10021_10004_10022_10009_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201603_8&btsid=a724b326-95fe-4d2f-8549-206b275fdfe5

These are designed to heat the cabs of big semi trucks but they make a lot of sense for winter driving with an EV. A friend of mine has one of them in his Jetta, and actually set his up with a GSM relay that allows him to send a text message to turn it on and off. Burns only ~500ml of fuel per hour, hooks up to the car's water heating system, and get hot almost instantly. The downside is it sounds like a small jet engine, and of course, burns diesel. A small price to pay for keeping toasty warm and preserving range.

 

[oilerlord]

I just went through the same decision exercise and bought a 2013 with 14K miles.

As used FFE's go, that does seem to be the sweet spot. I've seen a couple examples for sale with under 5000 miles on them but I don't think they are worth the extra "very, very low mileage" $2,000 premium.

I just picked up a new-in-box Clipper Creek HCS-40P EVSE on ebay for a good deal. Getting the 50 amp service installed next week for 6.6kW charging. Now, I just need a car to plug it into

 

[JTCalif]

I find the Spark too small...Focus is a good size

Battery life is an issue. I'm at 48000 miles and 30 months, and I'm down 20-25%, very noticeable.

3kw charging is fine overnight, but it's a hassle for turnaround during the day or if you need to use public charging.

1. Size: when looking at a Focus, take the black insert out of the trunk, for a better idea of capacity back there. We fit lots of groceries in trunk without that [organizer] insert.

2. Battery life: How do you estimate that "20-25%" drop?
I did not notice an obvious drop in range, at 3 years / 30,000 miles.

3. More power available for charging is also a big Plus if you want to pre-heat the car. Warming the interior while plugged in can make life nicer in winter, and that is Much nicer with at least 5 kW through cord.

 

[oilerlord]

2. Battery life: How do you estimate that "20-25%" drop?
I did not notice an obvious drop in range, at 3 years / 30,000 miles.

Have you noticed any battery degradation after 30,000 miles? It's comforting that when I click "view active topics" - I don't see owners unhappy about their FFE's range.

 

[jmueller065]

I returned my FFE lease in right at about 30,000 miles. I had not noticed any significant range drop--it was still using the same battery % for my commute as it did when I had picked it up (accounting for the weather of course).

 

[longschlng22]

I live near Carlsbad and currently have 2 FFE's. I also convinced one co-worker to get a Spark EV. I also have a Spark EV that I cosigned with a friend for him to take advance of a gm card topoff offer. I have driven both and like both for different reasons. When getting them new, the FFE is better as a purchase than the Spark EV. The Spark EV is better as a lease though.

They both have their little hiccups and needed to be taken into the dealership to fix their recalls. The Spark EV is surprisingly bigger for rear seat room than the FFE. As JMueller mentioned though, removing the black sectioning portion of the FEE trunk gets you a lot more cargo space. It is not normal space allocation though since the battery is in the way. The Spark EV has almost no trunk space.

As for the interior, the FFE is much nicer than the Spark EV. I prefer the cloth seats in the FFE than the leather. If you are looking for a more comfortable car with all the little extras, than I would go with the FFE.

As for the drive, the Spark EV is much more fun. The older Spark EV's had over 400 lb/ft of torque and utilized batteries by A123. I believe they were 20 kWh vs the now 19. They could really take off the line. The 500e is fun to throw around too, but anything fiat lacks reliability.

 

[michael]

2. Battery life: How do you estimate that "20-25%" drop?
I did not notice an obvious drop in range, at 3 years / 30,000 miles.

Several factors, all consistent:

1. The ETE estimate is down considerably, now shows about 16.5 (varies of course) (per OBD)
2. The energy used when nearing exhaustion after driving is way down...about 15 to 15.5
3. A heater run down test shows about 15 to 15.5
4. Car has notably lower range (actual range, not just GOM estimate)
5. The above are in moderate weather, with the battery at normal operating range (per OBD)

Based on consensus estimate of 19.5 kWh when new and my observations of 15 to 15.5 now....it's down 20 to 25%

I'm 99+% sure this is for real.

 

[JTCalif]

2. Battery life: How do you estimate that "20-25%" drop?
I did not notice an obvious drop in range, at 3 years / 30,000 miles.

Several factors, all consistent:
1. The ETE estimate is down considerably, now shows about 16.5 (varies of course) (per OBD)
2. The energy used when nearing exhaustion after driving is way down...about 15 to 15.5
3. A heater run down test shows about 15 to 15.5
4. Car has notably lower range (actual range, not just GOM estimate)
5. The above are in moderate weather, with the battery at normal operating range (per OBD)

Based on consensus estimate of 19.5 kWh when new and my observations of 15 to 15.5 now....it's down 20 to 25%
I'm 99+% sure this is for real.

Thank you for a clear answer.
I shall look more carefully, as our car ages (and wonder what factors may influence that drop most ... perhaps % of time spent near full or empty, number of charge cycles, temperatures, or ?).

 

[TomEV]

I just picked up a new-in-box Clipper Creek HCS-40P EVSE on ebay for a good deal. Getting the 50 amp service installed next week for 6.6kW charging. Now, I just need a car to plug it into

I am interested in the same EVSE. How much was it on ebay? Also, how much are they quoting you to install? I am having trouble getting a reasonable quote.

 

[oilerlord]

I paid $455 + $15 shipping for a new-in-box unit.

I wouldn't suggest anyone but a qualified electrician install the 14-50 outlet. I believe my electrician / friend said that all I needed was about 40-feet of 8 gauge wire, a 50A breaker, and a box for the outlet. He's doing it for the cost of the supplies. I can't believe people are getting quoted $1000 to install wire that costs ~$1.50 per foot.

 

[JTCalif]

I believe my electrician / friend said that all I needed was about 40-feet of 8 gauge wire, a 50A breaker, and a box for the outlet.

You didn't mention conduit, which adds neatness + keeps accidents away from the wires.