Stop Safely Now Warning

[robochimp]

Sorry to hear about your SSN message, Mstubbs - I can totally relate to the way you feel...
Initially I kept reading the increasing number of SSN incidents and thought luck would be with me and hoped for the best...

my luck ran out last Sunday.

There is a new incident just posted to NHTSA last night:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchResultsByUrlCode.action?referenceSearch.requestId=3952&referenceSearch.urlCode=I4PG7F9MUOS2N6Z

I HIGHLY recommend to anyone that has experienced this to report the incident and get the car into the dealer quickly - best way is to have it towed
by Ford roadside assistance so it is at least logged by corporate Ford...

This type of thing could easily happen going into a left hand turn and that would be the worst place for SSN...

I'm waiting to hear how Ford Corp is going to deal with this, because so far they have been treating it as a "Check Engine/Maintenance Light" issue

ie:
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/06/04/ford-focus-electrics-flashing-stop-safely-now-warning-for-some/

"This seemed legitimate, so we asked Ford directly, but all we got back was the following, from Ford's Amanda Zusman:
The Stop Safely Now warning appears in the Focus Electric in lieu of the Check Engine light that is found in naturally-aspirated vehicles. As with all vehicles, there are a number of different reasons why this warning may illuminate. If a customer's Check Engine or Stop Safely Now light illuminates, they should contact their dealer."

..difference is in every other car I've driven, I've NEVER LOST 100% POWER and CONTROL of the vehicle when the light goes off.

 

[philly_ev]

Just so everyone know, I called FORD (1.800.392.3673) and one of their prompts is for electric vehicles. So I spoke to a representative for like 15 minutes and he searched their system and he has no records or anything about SSN. He emailed the engineering team and will call me after he hears back, but he advised that everyone who has the issue should called this number. He said the more calls the more incidents get reported to engineering and they will be in a position where they will e required to respond.

 

[robochimp]

Thanks for the number, philly_ev. I just called and spoke to the DOT rep (it's not Ford..it's NHTSA, btw). She saw my complaint listed (it's called an NHTSA/ODI) The lady also mentioned that there are a total of 61 complaints on the Ford Focus (but couldn't filter out the ones for Electric FFE) guess it is so new the don't list it as an option to filter by.

This is basically the phone in version of the NHTSA website - which does currently shows 8 SSN incidents recorded:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/Sea ... F9MUOS2N6Z

I've requested that my dealer put me in touch with the EV engineer that is currently responsible for my car...I'll post what I find.

 

[philly_ev]

Sorry, I put the wrong number. I just changed it in my original thread, but to minimize confusion here are the numbers. Btw I called NHSTA before I called FORD and they were no help.

FORD: 1.800.392.3673 (definitely call them)
NHSTA: 1.888.327.4236

 

[robochimp]

Hi philly_ev,

I just tried the Ford number you listed above and it doesn't connect.. could you check it and repost?

 

[philly_ev]

Fixed! Sorry, it's been a long day!

 

[robochimp]

Thanks....

I just called and stated my concerns - the lady also mentioned this is the "first she's heard of it"... Evidently they don't read the incidents on the NHTSA board ;] I will be talking to Ford corp regional sales customer manager next...

 

[philly_ev]

So far you and I have called. Everyone else needs to for this to pick up momentum.

I was surprised when the guy I spoke to had no record of this incident (SSN). He said usually they receive a bulletin to refer to and was surprised they had nothing this time.

 

[user 3729]

As someone who really wants to buy an EV, this is quite discouraging. I loved the FFE when I test drove it, but I'm not buying one until Ford gets a handle on this.

The last Ford I owned, a '92 Escort GT, had an issue where it would suddenly stall at highway speeds. I know how it feels, and I don't want it to happen while my family is on board. At least with the Escort, I could turn off the ignition, turn it back on, and let out the clutch to re-start the engine.

 

[philly_ev]

Wow I just got a call back from FORD. The engineers responded back and said they had this issue on the 2012 FFE but they have had ZERO reports of this happening on 2013 FFEs. They said the issue in the 2012 FFEs was resolved through a software update.

This just shows that everyone who is still getting the SSN issue needs to call FORD @ 1.800.392.3673 and report it. The engineers aren't working on this at all because they think its fixed.

I wish I could post this voicemail.

 

[user 3729]

A couple of points:

1) The Stop Safely Now warning (SSN) can be triggered by many different failures. Ford can't say realistically that the SSN issue has been solved; There will always be events that can cause it. They have likely found a software bug that caused a subset of Stop Safely Now events and fixed it through a software update. One would hope that they found an issue that is causing the majority of these problems.

2) A number of folks have reported that their cars didn't have trouble codes stored after a SSN shutdown. As a software engineer, I find that troublesome, but that's how it is, and it seems to support the theory that in some (many?) cases it's a software glitch and not an electrical/mechanical issue. Maybe re-flashing or replacing the computer is the solution in these cases.

3) There are also reports that shutting the vehicle off after SSN and restarting it hinders Ford's ability to diagnose these issues, possibly by clearing the trouble code(s). If you have this issue, and it is safe to do so, please do not attempt to turn off or re-start your vehicle after experiencing SSN; Call Ford roadside assistance and leave your car as-is.

4) Ford hybrids are also known to display the SSN message in various situations.

Based on philly_ev's comments, If you have a 2012 with this issue, be sure you have the latest software updates. (Aside: Do any owners know if the ECU/ECM software is linked in any way to the MyFordTouch software? I wouldn't think so.)

philly_ev, can you find out & post the details of which update supposedly fixes the software issue?

 

[philly_ev]

This is exactly what the voicemail said. I played it back a few times to type it out, haha.

"This is Will from Ford Motor Company, I spoke to you about your Ford Focus Electric. I did get word back from my engineering division, and they do report that have had absolutely no reports on the 2013 concerns that you are having about stalling out in cruise sir. There was an issue or some other concern they were having with the 2012, but that was adjusted through a reprogramming of the PCM. But the 2013, so far, we are clear of any reports of that type sir. And if they were reported to the National Highway and Safety Board, then we would have seen those reports. I will try you again on Monday or Tuesday of next week to go over this with you again".

 

[firewired]

My 2013 has been reported at NHTSA for months.

 

[robochimp]

Curious about those that have had the "fix" for SSN - did you retake possession of the car from the dealer?
Did you tell them you wanted another FFE, different type car, lease cancel / money back?
Is it still at the dealership being diagnosed? How long now?

Are you still driving the FFE?

I really haven't heard what the resolve has been after it happens.

if you are still driving it, do you get the SSN messages anymore?
How many times has it been to the dealer for this same issue?

Thanks!

 

[jeffand]

One way to fix the problem is to take a piece of black tape and cover over the name Microsoft found near the gear selector. :lol:

Like many modern cars today the Focus has multiple CPUs (computers) in the car. Most of these need to talk to each other. Communication between the AC drive (this converts the DC power from the battery to AC power for the electric motor) and the battery computer is critical. Prolong loss of communications could result in damage to the battery.

 

[mabock]

My car has been at dealership for ~36 days (june 27th) and it is still waiting a PCM (powertrain control module) that the field service engineer wants to replace after reviewing the error codes several weeks back. I am not even confident this will fix the issue at this point as I have heard all kinds of diagnosis from members of this forum. I talked to regional customer service today and told him that if the car isn't ready for me monday (4 more days) with an ironclad extended service warranty included that I will refuse to take back possession after that. I will expect them to quickly buy the car back or replace it as it qualifies for "Lemon Law," which "helps determine what is a reasonable number of repair attempts for problems that substantially impair the use, value, or safety of the vehicle."

I believe it will qualify for California lemon law http://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/lemon
see section B.THE "LEMON LAW" AND WHAT IS A REASONABLE NUMBER OF REPAIR ATTEMPTS
item (3) The vehicle is out of service because of the repair of any number of problems by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 days since delivery of the vehicle.

I really don't see how they can refuse me at this point. I will have given them 40 days to fix it!

 

[firewired]

Such a shame to have such an awesome care tainted by such an issue. That fact that we are so low volume makes it seem even more so that our few voices (despite it being a high percentage of total FFEs overall having experienced this problem), are not getting heard because our total numbers are small.

This is my first Ford and American car actually. I would have thought that any manufacturer would have been much more proactive than Ford has seemed to be, in trying to get as much information as they could, and try to narrow down the issue on something that potentially could be such a major safety issue. You would think that Ford would be concerned about potential bad press if someone got seriously hurt or killed, just when they are doing so well with the roll-out of their plug-in hybrids.

Doesn't make sense, unless it is just ignorant apathy.

 

[dmen]

philly:
I drive a 2013 that had 2 SSN messages with accompanying loss of power back in April 2013, before the software update.
While my dealer shop was working on it (about a week), they made reference to engineering consultants at Ford Central having dealt with similar cases of 2013s, which would go against what Will told you. However, I wonder if he's considering your specific case as somehow different- the voice message said "stalling while in cruise"? My car and many others stalled while braking or immediately afterward. If your car warned and stalled while driving steady speed, it could be that they are considering these different problems.

robochimp:

Mine was one of the cars apparently affected by "loose connections" in the power harness. I say apparently because it was never definitively proven. But, knock on wood, no problems for about a month or two after servicing while I was running MFT 3.1.3, and no problems for another month or two since receiving the MFT 3.5.1 update.

all:
I echo parzival's point about not powering down your vehicle if it stalls with SSN message and you are in a safe location. Part of the reason my shop had the car so long was that since I did successfully restart the car eventually then had it towed to the shop when it was running ok, they couldn't pinpoint the problem. The logged diagnostic code was very generic, like high voltage system fault or something. So they drove it around over 200 miles trying to get the error to occur again, which would allow them to run a report while the car was disabled, to more definitively diagnose my problem. Of course that never happened, so they assumed it was a case of loose connections.

My understanding based on reading all the permutations of this issue is that there are several potential problems that occur to trigger the Stop Safely Now message, at least including: the PCM going bad, the harness going bad, loose connections, and software bugs. One thing Ford has to do is figure out all these separate issues. Another thing at least as important would be to change the car's behavior when these errors occur. If Ford's spokeswoman is correct that any SSN message is no more serious than an ICE vehicle's "check engine" light, then there is absolutely no reason it should result in a total loss of drivetrain power.

 

[mstubbs007]

Anyone try getting a refund or lease cancellation from Ford over this?

We will be turning the car in if this issue happens again. Ford knows they have a problem and is just playing with peoples lives at this point. The cars should be recalled.

 

[robochimp]

Ok.. Quick update - went against my better instincts
when the dealer told me my car had the firmware (PCM) flashed
and that the car was ready to be picked up after a week of testing.
There was no real diagnosis - just a reset and "all looks great"

After 5 days of driving this week - my FFE flashed another
SSN warning early this morning on the 134 doing 60+... Yep got that on
video, too. Powered out at the end of the offramp. I'm typing
this update sitting in a flatbed tow truck heading back to the dealer
for the last time... Still not one call to me from
corporate ford customer relations.. I don't think they are hearing
us loud enough.