Thermal management when not plugged in....?

[jmueller065]

I've noticed the accessory/remote start stay on for different length of time based on how you started it, and if it's plugged in or not.

Using the key fob to start will usually stay on for about 15 minutes (as reported by the mobile app). Using the mobile app to remote start yields 30 minutes if it is plugged in.

Granted these times are what the mobile app reports and that has been less than reliable.

 

[Zjlange12]

I don't see a security issue with leaving the car running. With the remote start, the car still can not be driven away until you get in with the key and press start. As for the honk feature, it's not just the FFE it's any ford vehicle with the keyless system (I.E. my 2011 Ford Fiesta has the same feature). You can also have your dealer customize a timer for the remote start so that it stays on for your desired period of time (I believe 20 minutes is the max? I could be wrong).

I sell these in WI so I probably won't need to address the extreme heat issue, but while reading a different thread I started to do a little searching just to educate myself a little more. I guess I am confused as to why you would leave it unplugged on hot days. The TMS kicks in while the car is on or plugged in, the coolant is "chilled" by the AC system and then in turn should help regulate the battery temperature. I know the TMS is gives an edge over the competition in cold temps, although this last winter there was obviously less capacity than the summer months. Is the issue that the TMS is not beefy enough to handle extreme temps like one would find in, say Phoenix? I would assume it was more so designed for high temps rather than low temps, since it is regular engine coolant that is being used in the liquid cooling system.

Unfortunately the Ford provided training is all butterflies and rainbows, so this is often the best place to get the "dirt" on the real world applications of the vehicles. I have been successful thus far with the FFE sales because at our dealership we have two managers that lease them, and I try and get updates from my FFE customers as often as possible about trips and such so we can "keep it real" when talking about the ownership of the vehicle.


**EDIT** fun story about leaving it running. I'm sure some of you have also pulled up to the house, ran inside and changed (with fob in pocket), then ran outside and left. I drove about 20 minutes from my house, parked, shut off my car, realized I forgot something else at home, tried starting it, and realized that I had additionally forgot to grab my FOB =(. I tend to learn things the hard way, first and last time that happened to me haha


-Zjlange12
Havill-Spoerl Ford Lincoln
Fort Atkinson, WI

 

[hybridbear]

I guess I am confused as to why you would leave it unplugged on hot days.

The issue is for people who park outside in the sun on a black asphalt parking lot with no access to even 120V power. They can't plug in and thus the car can't run the TMS during the day. This causes it to send the high temp alert text messages.

**EDIT** fun story about leaving it running. I'm sure some of you have also pulled up to the house, ran inside and changed (with fob in pocket), then ran outside and left. I drove about 20 minutes from my house, parked, shut off my car, realized I forgot something else at home, tried starting it, and realized that I had additionally forgot to grab my FOB =(. I tend to learn things the hard way, first and last time that happened to me haha

This is my fear. But the more likely scenario for us would be that my wife & I are driving together and then one of us gets dropped off somewhere while the other one keeps going. We haven't yet tested to see what happens if you leave the car running and get out with the fob. The Prius we had before would make a terrible screeching noise.

 

[jmueller065]

You don't need the dealer to program how long the remote start runs: Its on the left dash screen menu with 3 options: 5, 10, or 15 minutes.

 

[WattsUp]

We haven't yet tested to see what happens if you leave the car running and get out with the fob. The Prius we had before would make a terrible screeching noise.

Some people report that their FFE honks if they try to walk away with the fob, but with the ignition on.

My FFE does not do this. I have tested it multiple times.

I wish it would do it (although your situation has not happened to me) (yet).

 

[Zjlange12]

That makes much more sense, I guess the remote start option would be the best way to go about it then. Reflective sunshades, cracking the windows, parking in shade whenever possible. I have also seen trailer hitches installed on FFE's for bike racks, so perhaps plugging in at a 3rd party location and biking a short distance may be an option, although biking in that kind of heat may not be much fun. At our dealership we have one of the first Ford Electric Bicycle's as well, goes 20mph for up to 30 miles. It may be a toss up which would be more affordable with the bike vs. installing a charger at your end location. Some states do offer tax incentives to businesses for installing chargers as well, depending on your state. I will keep checking in here to see what kind of solutions work out the best!

-Zjlange12
Havill-Spoerl Ford Lincoln
Fort Atkinson, WI

 

[hybridbear]

I have a TMS question for the owners with the special EV ScanGauge who can monitor HVB temps.

Does the TMS engage at different HVB temps depending on the ambient air temp?

The Fusion Hybrid does. The quotes below summarize my findings for the Fusion Hybrid's Thermal Management System from a few posts of mine on the FFH Forum.

Today the ambient temp was about 85F. The HVB started out at about 78F in the morning and quickly reached temps over 90F. The HVB cooling fans did not turn on until the HVB reached 98.6F (37C). From that point forward the HVB fans ran continually at 1200 RPM. The HVB temp continued to rise to 105.8F (41C). At that point the HVB cooling fans kept the temp from rising any further, increasing from 1200 RPM to 1600 RPM. The HVB temp rose one more degree Celsius to 107.6F (42C), at this point the fan RPM increased to 2000+ until the temp dropped back to 105.8F. Once the temp dropped back to 41C the fan RPM dropped back down to 1200 and my drive ended before the HVB temp changed again.

After watching HVB temps & fan performance over the last few weeks I think I've detected a pattern. The HVB fans always seem to come on when the HVB temp becomes about 15F (8C) warmer than the ambient temp. On days when the temp was in the low 80s, the HVB fans didn't turn on until the HVB temp reached 95-99. On days when it has been about 70 the HVB fans turn on when the HVB temp reaches 85F.

This fan behavior applies when ambient temps are 65+F. In MN our temps often go from being near freezing to 70+ in less than a week in the Spring and go the other way that quickly in the Fall so I don't get to do much driving with temps in the 50s to see how it behaves then.

The HVB temp quickly increases once you start driving from the current flow in and out of the battery. In the winter, the HVB fans kick on when the HVB reaches 70F. The fans will stay on even when the HVB temp drops as low as 68F. I haven't had any trips where the HVB temp has gone above 70 to trigger the fans and has then dropped lower than 68 with the fans operational to see if the fans will shut back off. This behavior seems to be consistent anytime ambient temps are below freezing. The coldest temps where I observed this was about -20F. Since our car is parked in an underground garage which is heated to 55F the HVB temp rarely drops below 55F for us in the winter. It gets coldest when the car sits parked outdoors for hours on a cold day.

 

[michael]

As best I can tell, the answer is no. And I'm not too knowledgeable about Fusion, but if I understand it right....

It makes sense for the Fusion to adjust its cooling based on air temperature, since it depends on the ambient being lower than the HVB temp in order to get any benefit. And, in fact, it cannot cool below ambient assuming my understanding is correct...air cooling to ambient, right?

As I understand it, the Focus uses the air conditioner to chill liquid coolant so it can cool the battery to whatever temperature the designers have chosen independent of ambient.

Does this make sense in light of what you understand the Fusion to use? Air cooling to ambient? Or does the Fusion use air conditioned air for cooling?

I see the Focus cool to approximately 98 F, and I've never seen more than a couple of degrees higher. I've never seen it actively cooled below 96 F

 

[hybridbear]

As best I can tell, the answer is no. And I'm not too knowledgeable about Fusion, but if I understand it right....

It makes sense for the Fusion to adjust its cooling based on air temperature, since it depends on the ambient being lower than the HVB temp in order to get any benefit. And, in fact, it cannot cool below ambient assuming my understanding is correct...air cooling to ambient, right?

As I understand it, the Focus uses the air conditioner to chill liquid coolant so it can cool the battery to whatever temperature the designers have chosen independent of ambient.

Does this make sense in light of what you understand the Fusion to use? Air cooling to ambient? Or does the Fusion use air conditioned air for cooling?

I see the Focus cool to approximately 98 F, and I've never seen more than a couple of degrees higher. I've never seen it actively cooled below 96 F

One of the sensors I can monitor is "HVB inlet air temp" which should report the temp of the air being blown across the HVB. This temp almost always matches the sensor for interior temp because the FFH takes cabin air and uses it to cool the HVB. So if the cabin is air conditioned then the FFH uses air conditioned air. But if the cabin is not air conditioned then it doesn't use air conditioned air.

When the HVB is very cold in the winter the FFH will use the fans to blow warm cabin air across the HVB.

I just find it interesting that in the winter the FFH stops the HVB from getting hotter than 70F while in hot summer weather it lets it get to 100+F before the cooling kicks in. I wonder if the FFE does something similar.

 

[EVA]

WattsUp - correct me if I'm wrong - I think you avoided a system update that added that honking feature? Wasn't there a TSB or recall that added the honking?

 

[WattsUp]

WattsUp - correct me if I'm wrong - I think you avoided a system update that added that honking feature? Wasn't there a TSB or recall that added the honking?

Well... I didn't avoid it on purpose. It is true, I waited a while to have all my updates and things done (mostly just to see how it went for everyone else). But, around the end of December, I collected all my notifications from Ford, went in, and had "everything" done (or so I thought).

Do you have the TSB number? Do you have to "ask" to get it done?

 

[EVA]

Sorry I don't have a number for you. I was going on vague memory of that honking being added in an update.

 

[kosjet]

I find this a bit odd. Is this how all "keyless" ignitions work, or just Ford's?

But thinking about it, seems there could be a safety concern with a more "aggressive" system... if something went wrong with the "key detection" while driving, the car could suddenly shut off. So, I guess the alternative is: one turned on, stay on, even if the key goes away.

Yes this is how our Infiniti works as well. Even without the key, the car will keep driving even if the connection to the key is lost. That is probably a good reason why this is done. When the car is being valeted, I've forgotten to take the key out of my pocket and the car can still be parked as normal.

 

[mcowger]

I find this a bit odd. Is this how all "keyless" ignitions work, or just Ford's?

But thinking about it, seems there could be a safety concern with a more "aggressive" system... if something went wrong with the "key detection" while driving, the car could suddenly shut off. So, I guess the alternative is: one turned on, stay on, even if the key goes away.

Yes this is how our Infiniti works as well. Even without the key, the car will keep driving even if the connection to the key is lost. That is probably a good reason why this is done. When the car is being valeted, I've forgotten to take the key out of my pocket and the car can still be parked as normal.

Our Mazda and Audi are the same way.

 

[JTCalif]

WattsUp - correct me if I'm wrong - I think you avoided a system update that added that honking feature? Wasn't there a TSB or recall that added the honking?

[...]
Do you have the TSB number? Do you have to "ask" to get it done?

I think that was 13C07.

 

[jstack6]

I never plugged my FFE in all summer in Phoenix. I worked each day 7 am -7 pm . After 2 summer my car has not lost even 1 % capacity. I check using my SCAN GAUGE on the OBD2 port from linear logic. It's a great liquid cooling system and a FORD engineer said the battery could last 20 years with less than 20% loss. I believe them.