"we won't be wasting a fortune on Electric cars"

[pjam3]

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2581759/We-wont-wasting-fortune-electric-cars-Ford-chief-reveals-one-green-initiative-non-starter.html?ICO=most_read_module


It's not a good thing when one of the chairmans and managing directors of Ford (for Britain) comes out with a "Not wasting a fortune on electric cars" statement.

 

[v_traveller]

Here is a much less slanted spin on the same quote without the negative conjecture, arguably from a more credible source (in my opinion) that has been paying attention to EVs all along.

http://insideevs.com/ford-stays-focused-phevs-evs-wont-losing-fortune/

In the context of Ford powertrains, he also said, "If you want an electric vehicle then you can have one." Another indication, again in my opinion, that Ford is in the EV market for the long run.

 

[pjam3]

Here is a much less slanted spin on the same quote without the negative conjecture, arguably from a more credible source (in my opinion) that has been paying attention to EVs all along.

http://insideevs.com/ford-stays-focused-phevs-evs-wont-losing-fortune/

In the context of Ford powertrains, he also said, "If you want an electric vehicle then you can have one." Another indication, again in my opinion, that Ford is in the EV market for the long run.

"There’s no point in us getting behind it and losing a fortune. It’s got to be commercially viable. “

They haven't sold many, don't market many, and most dealers couldn't care less about talking about them. that's not exactly in it for the long haul. I would say Ford is in it it for the long haul when it comes to the c-max and Energi plug-in hybrids, but as far as the FFE, who knows.

Ford is all about money and the FFE obviously hasn't made them any. So how long will they continue down this path? Unless the electric cars get into the 200 mile range and better batteries, the FFE doesn't seem like it'll be a popular car. I'm not sure why as i like my FFE far more than the other electrics besides the Tesla, but compared to the others the FFE is kind of a bust.

How many companies continue to sell and make busts?

It's one thing if all Electrics were busts, but the tesla sells well and is expanding, the Leaf is pretty damn popular and there are many people who like the Volt. We will see with the BMW i3 and i8 and various other cars. We now have Hyundai and others introducing Hydrogen Fuel cell cars, and so on. Whether people want to admit it or not, the FFE just hasn't been very successful. Yes, thats also on Ford because they haven't marketing it well and their dealers don't even carry them many times, but still, a car manufacturer bases it's success off of money and as they already stated, Commercially viable. So far the FFE isn't that. What it has helped is their hybrid and plug-in market though. I see them pushing that route, as the do now, far more than the FFE. And who is to say the FFE is even around in a few years? People need to actually buy the car for them to want to continue making them. The few of us who have them aren't exactly a reason to keep making them.

 

[jmueller065]

They haven't sold many, don't market many, and most dealers couldn't care less about talking about them. that's not exactly in it for the long haul.

This is exactly why they haven't sold many: No marketing effort and the dealers aren't invested in it. We know its a great car and everyone (except pjam3--sorry) just loves it who owns one.

For the past few years Ford has had on its sustainability report that it will be producing EVs--yes plural EVs. Thus at some point there may be a 2nd EV besides the FFE.

In addition: Due to the laws in CA (and increasingly in other states) they are required to produce them.

Just a couple of more reasons why they will be in it for the long haul.

 

[pjam3]

They haven't sold many, don't market many, and most dealers couldn't care less about talking about them. that's not exactly in it for the long haul.

This is exactly why they haven't sold many: No marketing effort and the dealers aren't invested in it. We know its a great car and everyone (except pjam3--sorry) just loves it who owns one.

For the past few years Ford has had on its sustainability report that it will be producing EVs--yes plural EVs. Thus at some point there may be a 2nd EV besides the FFE.

In addition: Due to the laws in CA (and increasingly in other states) they are required to produce them.

Just a couple of more reasons why they will be in it for the long haul.

I like my FFE. I sure like it better than the Leaf or Volt. Could it use some improvements? Of course, but I pretty much only drive my FFE these days and have used my ICE like 2-3 times in a few months. But car companies make cars that sell. Why they aren't marketing or pushing the FFE, who knows, maybe they don't feel it's viable or they make more money on the Energi & C-Max, but the reality is, no company continues to make a car nobody is buying. And at this point, nobody is buying the FFE.

Sometimes the better product doesn't win. I think FFE is better than the Leaf and Volt and it serves more of a point than the overpriced Fusion Energi hybrid plug-in, but Ford seems like they are far more interesting in marketing and selling that car than the FFE.

Will they continue to make Electrics? Obviously the Leaf and Volt and Tesla say they should. But at this point, that means little for the FFE. It honestly feels like the FFE will be a forgotten car in a few years as they come out with some other electric cars.
Should it be this way? No, but that seems to be the direction.

Remember there was a Ford Escape Hybrid at one point, wasn't all that popular, and Ford stopped making them.

 

[jmueller065]

Remember there was a Ford Escape Hybrid at one point, wasn't all that popular, and Ford stopped making them.

The Escape Hybrid was quite popular as it was the ONLY crossover available as a hybrid at that point (117,000 of them were sold in total--I'd call that pretty popular: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_electric_vehicles_in_the_United_States).

Ford stopped making them when they redesigned the Escape using the Focus platform (and rumor has it that there will be a new Escape Hybrid + Energi model very soon now).

 

[pjam3]

Remember there was a Ford Escape Hybrid at one point, wasn't all that popular, and Ford stopped making them.

The Escape Hybrid was quite popular as it was the ONLY crossover available as a hybrid at that point (117,000 of them were sold in total--I'd call that pretty popular: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_electric_vehicles_in_the_United_States).

Ford stopped making them when they redesigned the Escape using the Focus platform (and rumor has it that there will be a new Escape Hybrid + Energi model very soon now).

It was a great SUV, but the sales declined over the years, and they decided to focus more on the c-max and Fusion. if you talk about the Escape Hybrid, sales people will try to sell you on the C-Max. Not the same, but that's where Ford's head seems to be.

I think Ford is taking a wait and see approach to the FFE. It's not popular now, so what happens when those credits and rebates stop? Maybe that's what they are waiting for. And honestly, if they make a Ford Escape plug-in Hybrid energi model, I'd buy that over the FFE.

 

[v_traveller]

I've posted the link to Ford's Sustainability Report a number of times. Clearly (to me, at least, and I review and have written similar reports as part of my job) they intend to continue to evolve and produce BEVs for a while because it is a core technology for alternative drivetrains they intend to develop and then produce in large volumes (PHEV, HEV).

http://corporate.ford.com/microsites/sustainability-report-2012-13/environment-products-plan-overview

I'm really impressed with their report - just try to dig for GM's or Chrysler's reports - all I could find re: BEVs from those two is trumpeting what they've already done, no publicly available written commitment on evolving BEVs as part of their long-term plan. Ford set the plan years ago and has achieved the goals they set for themselves so far - I see no reason to believe that they would deviate wildly from it at this point.

 

[unplugged]

I honestly feel like the FFE will be a forgotten car in a few years as they come out with some other electric cars.
Should it be this way?

Every automaker (except Nissan and Tesla) got into the business of electric vehicles because California made them do it. Is California going to stop mandates for clean air vehicles? No. Is Ford going to get out of the business of EVs? No, they can't afford to do that. Ford needs California (and a few other CARB states) sales of EVs to meet mandated CARB credits in order to continue to sell vehicles in California.

Will Ford begin to provide a dedicated EV platform for its EV program? Eventually, but not until California's requirements reach the point of viability. California's CARB mandates for zero emission sales are complicated and based on credits for EVs, fuel cell, and hybrids. The mandates are based upon the manufacturer's share of sales in the state. Ford is headed toward a 10% share of sales. This means that Ford will be required, in 2018, to sell around 2,500 EVs, and by 2020, to sell about 5,000 EVs or fuel cell cars in California that year. (By way of comparison, the Leaf sold almost 23,000 in all of the nation last year. The Focus Electric has sales nationwide of about 1700.)

Here is the link to the CARB mandate with a graph of required sales based on sales share and year: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/facts/2013_fotw771.html

So, no, Ford is not going to be getting out of the EV business any time soon.

 

[Hugh]

I've said and lamented this before. if Ford doesn't advertise the FFE and has none in many showrooms, they aren't going to sell enough of them. How many buyers of the Leaf even know the Ford exists? So whatsup? Maybe it really is just a California compliance car after all. Beats me. i love my car, and i'm glad they made it, whatever the reason.








2013 Ice green FFE, Massachusetts

 

[Bloggin]

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2581759/We-wont-wasting-fortune-electric-cars-Ford-chief-reveals-one-green-initiative-non-starter.html?ICO=most_read_module


It's not a good thing when one of the chairmans and managing directors of Ford (for Britain) comes out with a "Not wasting a fortune on electric cars" statement.

This is based on the UK market, NOT the U.S market. The UK is still digging it's self out of an economy hole, where Ford finally showed a profit at the end of 2013. So it would be a waste trying to push EVs on a market that is struggling to move ICE units.

Ford is launching hybrids first in the UK. Followed by plug-in hybrids. EV will be last in that very small market.

The Focus Electric launched late last year, and was pulled. It's should be launching later this year or next with the newly updated 2015 model.

In the US, there are more plug-ins coming....

 

[pjam3]

I've said and lamented this before. if Ford doesn't advertise the FFE and has none in many showrooms, they aren't going to sell enough of them. How many buyers of the Leaf even know the Ford exists? So whatsup? Maybe it really is just a California compliance car after all. Beats me. i love my car, and i'm glad they made it, whatever the reason.

This is what I don't understand at all. I constantly get news and feeds about other manufacturers pushing a new concept, a new car, and they talk about Electric vehicles all the time. Ford barely mentions it and the few times they do, one of their directors kind of disses it. GM has talked about a 200 mile electric, others talk about electric batteries in the wheels and so on, others talk about partnerships, others market the cars. Tesla is always in the news, Fiat has been in the press, BMW has their i3 and i8 being marketed. The list goes on.

So it might be compliance cars to many other companies, but many of these companies are actually pushing these cars, Ford acts like it's a compliance car. Go to a Chevy or Nissan dealership and they will push the Volt, the Spark or the Leaf. Go to a Ford dealership and most don't even have a FFE. And if they do, they'll have 1 or 2 and try to sell you the C-Max or the Fusion Energi plug-in. You know, cars that get like 20 miles of electric range and the rest gas.

I would love it if Ford improved the FFE. I would love it if they actually marketed it. But if you look at how they market or publicize the FFE, it's almost like they just look at it like a compliance car. It's been a bust because they really don't spend any time marketing it and probably don't spend much time thinking about it. It hasn't changed much in a few years. Whereas other companies keep pimping out their upgrades and changes.

The Spark just came out with some huge deal and now it's like a $17K car after credits and rebates. I don't like that car, but $17K is cheap.