12v battery appears dead

[TrojanEV]

First time this has happened to my FFE and I'm kicking myself for not following the popular advice on the forum to buy a small 12v charger.

Questions:
-I assume plugging it in won't solve this problem, correct?
-Can I just jump the battery like I would an ICE car?
-Anyone have any recommendations for a small, portable 12v battery charger? There appear to be many different varieties out there.

Thanks for the help!

 

[EVA]

Yes you can jump start the car. It works.

Correct, just plugging it in won't charge the battery.

Probably a good idea to replace the battery. No reason to replace with anything but a standard lead acid battery.

I have a couple of those Li-Ion small jump starters. Have no recommendation because I have never jump started a car with any of them.

There is one truth about those compact starters - if you use them more than once or twice to jump start a battery, they die. So not necessarily worth paying a lot of money for one.

 

[WattsUp]

There is one truth about those compact starters - if you use them more than once or twice to jump start a battery, they die. So not necessarily worth paying a lot of money for one.

Maybe not so with the FFE, though.

With an ICE car, the starter needs to supply a lot "cranking amps" to get the engine to turn over (perhaps even a few times). With the FFE, it just needs to run the electronics. No stressful "cranking" of an ICE engine is needed.

 

[triangles]

TrojanEV,
I'd recommend any "smart" charger to do the job. I have this charger but I got it on clearance from Tractor Supply as a store branded product for $40. Supposedly the Schumacher chargers are good too. Basically the smart chargers usually have the following benefits; 1) They can tell you the SOC. 2) Have a "desulfate" function. If you're not familiar with lead acid batteries, "sulfating" is the formation of lead sulfate on the lead plates. Over time this forms normally in a battery but is accelerated during deep discharge states. It eventually coats the lead plates leading to the battery not working anymore. I think the "desulfate" function uses pulsed DC or AC to try and break up the sulfate. I don't know exactly how it works but it will only help extend the life of a battery some. It's not a magic cure all. This feature is usually automatic if the charger detects high internal resistance. 3) They ramp the charge current to optimize the life of the battery. 4) Most importantly a smart charger stops charging when the battery is full so you don't have to worry about overcharging it. Charging at high current is not good for a lead acid battery. For the best longevity you should charge at 2A. 10A if you can wait a little while but need to go soon. This likely won't harm the battery but isn't doing it any favors and 20A+ if you're stranded somewhere and need to leave ASAP. It won't kill the battery but does put some wear and tear on it. Another thing relevant to the FFE is that you probably want to unhook the positive battery terminal to charge the battery. The first time my FFE died I didn't unhook the battery and it fried my charger because the FFE was still trying to pull current for something. I suspect it was trying to run a coolant pump since when I unhooked the battery, bought a new charger, charged the battery and hooked the cable up it sparked pretty good and I heard a coolant pump run for a second or two. All you need to unhook the battery cable is a 10mm wrench or socket.

My FFE randomly died again this past weekend. Full charge Friday nite, two 4mi trips to and from lunch Saturday and parked, then Sunday nite it was dead, 6V dead. I tried a battery charger but the car was still pulling current and I didn't want to fry my charger again so I unhooked the battery cable and connected the charger to just the battery. After 8 hours the charger said battery was only 60% I gave it a 1/2 hour at 10A charge before I had to go to work, I forgot to check battery status as I had to go. I think it may be time for ford to replace this battery under warranty. I thought a previous firmware update fixed the battery issue. Apparently not.

I agree with EVA, you have to beware of the chineseium jump starters that may work once and only put out half or less than what they say they are rated for. There is a fellow on youtube AvE who used to have a video up where he tears down one of the "genius" jump starters and shows that it is total crap. I found another tear down of the same product but I won't put a link because I don't want to subject any of you to this guys annoying self righteous rants. Even with one of these crappy ones you'd probably be ok since all you need to do is power the computer and energize some contactors before the DC-DC converter takes over. I've had this Stanley lithium jump starter for two years now. I've used it at least a handful of times to jump start ICE vehicles. Even multiple jumps between charges. Yes I can probably guarantee without looking that this Stanley unit is likely made in china too but at least it seems to stand up to some use and abuse. The unfortunate thing is that it doesn't fit in the glove box and since you cant open the hatch with a dead battery, I have to keep it on top so I can reach it by folding down the rear seats.

 

[TrojanEV]

So my 12-V battery has died 3 more times in the past year. Is it safe to assume I just need a new one at this point? I'm outside my 36-month bumper to bumper warranty period by about 3 months. Will Ford cover any of the cost of the replacement? Seems ridiculous I have to replace a battery with only 10,000 miles on it.

 

[campfamily]

So my 12-V battery has died 3 more times in the past year. Is it safe to assume I just need a new one at this point? I'm outside my 36-month bumper to bumper warranty period by about 3 months. Will Ford cover any of the cost of the replacement? Seems ridiculous I have to replace a battery with only 10,000 miles on it.

Miles usually don't wear a battery out, time does. And, I've found with all of my modern cars, 3 years is about all I can get out of a battery. Ever wonder why warranties on batteries are typically 36 months? It's not like the old days when batteries would last 10+ years. The battery in my 1965 Buick was 12 years old before it needed to be replaced a few months ago.

Keith

 

[scottt]

So my 12-V battery has died 3 more times in the past year. Is it safe to assume I just need a new one at this point? I'm outside my 36-month bumper to bumper warranty period by about 3 months. Will Ford cover any of the cost of the replacement? Seems ridiculous I have to replace a battery with only 10,000 miles on it.

Miles usually don't wear a battery out, time does. And, I've found with all of my modern cars, 3 years is about all I can get out of a battery. Ever wonder why warranties on batteries are typically 36 months? It's not like the old days when batteries would last 10+ years. The battery in my 1965 Buick was 12 years old before it needed to be replaced a few months ago.

Keith

You're only getting 3 years out of a battery? I've been getting 6-7 years on all my batteries.

 

[campfamily]

So my 12-V battery has died 3 more times in the past year. Is it safe to assume I just need a new one at this point? I'm outside my 36-month bumper to bumper warranty period by about 3 months. Will Ford cover any of the cost of the replacement? Seems ridiculous I have to replace a battery with only 10,000 miles on it.

Miles usually don't wear a battery out, time does. And, I've found with all of my modern cars, 3 years is about all I can get out of a battery. Ever wonder why warranties on batteries are typically 36 months? It's not like the old days when batteries would last 10+ years. The battery in my 1965 Buick was 12 years old before it needed to be replaced a few months ago.

Keith

You're only getting 3 years out of a battery? I've been getting 6-7 years on all my batteries.

The battery on my FFE lasted about 2 1/2 years before needing to be replaced. My wife drives a 2012 Nissan Armada, it is on its third battery. The first battery lasted about 32 months, replaced under Nissan warranty. The replacement battery lasted just over 3 years, waited until it was just out of warranty to fail. My son's Nissan Maxima, the last battery (from Costco) lasted about 3 1/2 years before needing to be replaced.

Now, on my 1965 Buick, I bought it in 2005. It finally began to get a bit weak last October, so I replaced it before it left me stranded. However, that car is only started two or three times a month, versus daily driving duties out of the other cars.

Keith

 

[triangles]

You might want to do a 12V draw down test before replacing the battery. It would suck to spend money on a new battery only to have it ruined by misbehaving modules drawing it dead. Shortly after my previous post in this thread I went thru about 5 months of in and out of the dealer for my 12V intermittently going dead. Long story short some modules intermittently weren't shutting down when I turned the car off. This would drain the battery. I'm convinced that if it hadn't gone from intermittent to consistent problem after 5 months I'd probably still be chasing this problem. The FFE has a major design flaw that it doesn't log what does and does not shut down when the car shuts off and doesn't have any way of controlling this other than hoping every module behaves and shuts down like it should. They basically have to catch it in the act of not shutting down in order to diagnose the problem. Needless to say after countless times of being run dead the battery was toast too. New RFA and TCU modules and a battery replaced last September and I haven't had any more problems since (knocks on wood). See here for details: http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3812

 

[VOLT KAR]

The 12V battery in my 2014 Ford Focus electric died after 3 years (in 2017). Now, 3 years later then new one has died.
Of course - the limited warranty on the O'Reilly battery is 36 months!

As I installed the new battery, I measured the current draw and it was 3.4 AMPS (with the car OFF, no lights or open doors) - no wonder my weary 3-year old battery died overnight. (NOTE: the charging cord was not plugged in overnight, since I had only gone 3 miles since the last full charge)

When I got in the car & turned it on - the SYNC screen was in the middle of a maintenance update. After the update completed, the car is fine again with the new 12V battery. The SYNC update uses the TCU module (Telematics Control Unit) to get software updates and there is a Ford service bulletin about this problem:

https://ford.oemdtc.com/3570/telematics-control-unit-tcu-inoperative-remote-commands-from-myford-mobile-app-2012-2017-ford-electric-energi-vehicles

 

[Semmm]

the same story with me, actually i think battery it's the problem of every electric car, and i want to believe that in future it will change, and i'll be able to travel cross country without charging

 

[calvinhc]

My FFE is 6 years, 5 months old and I've never had an issue with the 12 volt battery - until today.

Used the car to run an errand and everything was fine. Got home and parked behind my son's car and a couple of hours later when he needed to go out, mine wouldn't start. The display said I should either shut off or start the car to recharge, neither of which was possible.

Had to disconnect it to stop some relay or contactor from clicking. Now, I hadn't checked the fluid in the battery and all cells were open so I added distilled water and put a trickle charger on the battery for a couple of hours. I'll likely have to replace the battery, but hoping this works for the meantime.

After a couple if hours, I was able to start up, but the car thought it's high voltage battery was at 0% SOC and told me to shut off immediately. The HV battery was at 90-95% when I got home, so it seems the electronics have forgotten this.

Plugging in wouldn't start charging with a depleted 12 volt battery, so I hooked up a power supply that could deliver several amis at 12 volts while I had the battery disconnected and back on the trickle charger. With the power supply, the HV battery was now charging. It continued for a while before ramping down and stopping at about the time I expected it would given the SOC when I returned home with it earlier. It was charged with an Emporia EVSE, so I could monitor the power draw.

The car initially reported 6% SOC with 0 km range on the GOM when it stopped charging. After checking awhile later, it said 100% SOC, but still 0 km. I'm guessing the history the GOM uses is erased, resulting in the zero range.

I'm hoping it clears once the car is started so the 12 volt battery can be charged by the HV battery.

 

[calvinhc]

Follow-up: when it came time to try starting, I reconnected the battery but left the power supply connected like getting a boost.

It started fine, but the 100% SOC HV battery showed a GOM of 0 km. As it sat on for a few minutes, the range started to increase. I took the car for a short drive (2 km) when it said the range was 19 km, and after the drive it was about 60. I left the car on for a couple of hours to charge a bit more and then parked the car in the garage for the night, plugging it in to top up the HV battery.

It started fine the next day, but I got a hydrometer to check the battery and it was half way in the red (replace) range.

The car worked fine for the next couple of days while I ordered and picked up a new battery. I connected the power supply while I swapped the battery so as to avoid any great of the strange effects from cutting off the 12 V power.

 

[Northwest_Greg]

My story is a bit different than yours. I bought a 2013 FFE used in 2016 and the Dealership delivered it with a bad 12 volt battery. After I got it home, it failed to restart even after recharging at an L2 ESVE all night. AT that time I got a new 12-volt battery from the dealer and installed myself. that battery lasted about 3 more years and died that same way as before. I replaced it again with a NAPA product. The user manual says that if you have a dead battery you may jump start it but recommends starting the car immediately and leaving it in park for 10 minutes to recharge the 12-volt battery. You can see this happening with the Power display. When in park the power flows to the destination Identified as "Other" but not the motor. Today I am still using that 3rd battery but keep a compact jump starter power pack in the glove box. occasionally I have found the car will turn on the heater when parked in cold temperatures and drain the 12-volt battery. After jump starting, I just let it sit in Park and go get a cup of coffee. Then it can be driven just fine until the next time the car turns the heater on while parked.

 

[bkeil84]

The future of the 12 volt battery is changing and Tesla is leading the way. All of their cars now come with a lithium 12 volt battery that should last the life of the vehicle. The Cyber truck is also lithium, but is now 48 volt. I have heard that there is still some 12 volt present, but most likely only a supply issue on early models.
I actually put a $75 used lithium battery in my 2017 about 4 years ago and have not had a problem since. I was not going to pay $250 for another battery that would only last 2 1/2 years again. Also, I don't remember there any issue with state of charge or GOM relearning anything. Perhaps the ones with larger batteries 2017-18 solved this issue.

 

[scottt]

My battery in my 2015 was replaced under warranty. I've had my 2017 for 6.5 years, and I'm still on the original battery

 

[Heima]

What a coincidence. All this talk of 12V batteries, and sure enough, the little "magic eye" in mine went orange.
I have the original motorcraft battery sold with the car. (Its a 2017.)
Pulled it out, put it on a charger, and then the magic eye went black? WTF?
Pulled the sticker off, and checked the electrolyte levels. Hmm, 3 were just under the lower lip, but still covering the plates.
Added distilled water and charged again. Still black.
Hooked up a repairing charger, let that go for about a week and it went orange again.
Well, better than black.
Noticed the electrolyte level was low again, so added more distilled water.
Put it on the regular charger again, and it goes black. WTF?
So put it back on the repair charger, and watched it for a few days, sometimes it would be faint orange, or faint green.
If I jostled the battery, I could see something roll to orange and then black, or to green and then black.
Not appearing to make any progress, I thought, "ok, worse I can do is permanently f-up the battery, but if I was going to replace it anyways, whats it gonna hurt?"
Put on a charger that is very suspect of what it puts out. Could be DC, could be half wave AC. It produces just under 16V and will boil the electrolyte out of the battery. This is the brute force method.
I let that sit for about 8 hours, and its faint green again.
Let it go for another 2 hours, and its a stronger green. I think I am making progress.
Checking electrolyte levels, they have gone down, but not much.
Gonna let it go another few hours, and if it is green after that, then I am calling it fixed.

Thanks for reading through all of that. What is the takeaway? If you are going to replace the battery, at least give it a shot to try to repair it. The sketchy charger is from the 80's, before digital displays and "smart charging". It has a linear power supply (heavy transformer) and buzzes at 60 Hz.

Sometimes it is old technology that saves new technology's ass.

 

[jghall00]

I didn't read all that, lol.

I just chimed in to say just buy a replacement 26R battery. The old ones get recycled anyway.

 

[calvinhc]

I've had my 2017 for 6.5 years, and I'm still on the original battery

As I described above, the 12 volt battery in my 2017 lasted 6.5 years. The factory-installed batteries at that time have caps in the cells so you can check the fluid level and add distilled water if needed.

I mistakenly assumed that the maintenance plan that has "checking fluid levels" with each visit include the fluid in the 12 volt battery. It doesn't.

I might have got another year or two out of it if I checked sooner.

The replacement battery, from Ford, no longer has the caps for checking the cells.