2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

[qflyer]

Like the title says...what am I looking at most likely? Accessories all come on, but no green car icon. Within a few seconds of pressing the on button, I get a wrench and a few seconds after that the SSN warning. My wife started the car yesterday, and got the wrench but the car ran fine. She made a few stops around town, got the wrench every time but no other issues. She got home and plugged it in. Few hours later, went to go out again, car had not charged and she got the SSN when she started it.

Anything I can try before trailering it to the dealership?

 

[qflyer]

And for additional info after having a few minutes to look at it...the 12V battery was at 12.4v when I checked it this morning. Tried jumper cables, no luck. Put it on a good charger and it’s been putting out 7 amps for almost an hour now. Battery has slowly increased to show 13.6v while still charging. If I open the door, try to start the car, or really do anything, the voltage instantly drops to 12.6ish and slowly drops as long as anything in the car is running.

Could a bad 12v battery cause what I’m seeing? It is the original battery, so 6 years old.

 

[Heima]

At first I thought it was a bad 12V battery as well, but the fact that the voltage continues to drop while the car is powered by the HV battery says something is amiss with the DCDC converter, which is under the big black engine cover. Before getting heavy into diagnostics, disconnect the postive terminal from the 12v battery. While disconnected, measure the voltage across the 12v battery terminals. Keep it disconnected for about an hour. If while disconnected the 12v battery voltage drops below 12.4v, it needs to be replaced. When you reattach the positive terminal, check voltage again, and when you power the car on, check the voltage again. it should never drop below 12.4v. if it does, replace the 12v battery.

By disconnecting for an hour, you will hopefully reset the vehicle system. This not a guarrantee to reset the SSN, but it might help. Let us know how it goes.

It probably would not hurt to replace the 12v battery, and a much cheaper type 26R will fit. See my post on replacing the battery here:
http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4938#p32447
Also if you havent dowloaded yet, see my post about getting the factory service manual here:
http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4921#p32331

Do you have an OBDII code reader?

Good Luck

 

[qflyer]

Heima, Thanks. The 12v battery charged all day. With the car off, the battery reads 12.65v. With the positive terminal disconnected, it shows 12.82v should there be a voltage difference just because the positive is attached or not? . With the car on and alerts all flashing, it dropped instantly to12.4v and went down to 12.31v over about a 20-30 second time. It then held steady at 12.31. The green ready to drive indicator never comes on. Without that indicator, is anything powered by the HV battery, or is it all 12V?

I also see the same general voltage drops when I plug the car in to L2. I haven't measured the exact voltages with just plugging it in, but I think it's the same general drop to 12.4ish then drop a bit more. The charge ring does it's normal light sequence, but then just keeps the first quadrant illuminated. Maybe flashing, maybe steady. Don't remember. The HV battery is at 18% right now and will not take a charge.

 

[qflyer]

Do you have an OBDII code reader?

Good Luck

No, I don't, but looks like I can get one for about $20 from walmart. Would a generic reader be good enough, or do I need something specific?

 

[qflyer]

Put in a new battery, same exact thing happens. Volts drop when I start it. Something seems to be putting a big draw on the battery. 12.8+v drops to 12.4 with all accessories off. Down to 12.2 with ac and headlights on. Anything to check myself before I take it to Ford?

 

[Heima]

While a dual speed (HS/MS) CAN OBDII interface would be ideal, with Forscan installed on a laptop, a basic OBDII reader should give you some codes that you could begin diagnostics. It really seems odd that there is no apparent DCDC support.

So some people have found that the telemetrics system can screw up 12V systems, and they advise to just remove fuse F1 in the rear fuse box. In the trunk on the driver side is a large rectangular panel, behind it is the fuse box. F1 is a 5 amp fuse in the upper left corner. Don't reinstall the fuse.

The service manual also says to check F22 in the under hood fuse box, to the left of the 12v battery. When you check the fuse, completely remove it. F22 is the fuse for the battery monitoring system. Sometimes when you do a jump start or charing of the 12v battery the monitoring system can get confused. It does not control the 12v out of the battery, but the possibility of charging of the battery by the DCDC converter. You can reinstall this fuse.

If you remove the big black foam cover under the hood, the DCDC converter is to the RH (passenger) side of the vehicle. It has the high voltage orange cables connecting it, the thick low voltage 12v cables, and a signal/logic cable. You can safely check the low voltage 12V cables and the signal/logic cable.
Check if the low voltage cables are loose or can move when wiggled. Disconnect and then reconnect the signal/logic cable (top center). The orange high voltage cable requires you to take some safety precautions first. After disconnecting the positive terminal cable from the 12v battery positive terminal, you can remove the low voltage cables from the DCDC converter and inspect for corrosion or arching. After shutting off high voltage, you can check the orange high voltage cable. You can disconnect it, and then reconnect it, checking that it is very secure on reconnection. Pay close attention as it is most likely a 2-stage design. If you partially disconnect it and you do not fully remove it, or if you fully remove it, but do not fully connect it, you might get HVIL errors, and the vehicle probably won't even start. The thick orange wires are for the high voltage, the thin orange wires are for the HVIL.

The reason you are checking the connectors is because there is a possibility that they are loose, or corroded. You are disconnecting them to make a visual inspection of this situation. If the low voltage cables are corroded, you can clean them up yourself with sandpaper or a cardboard fingernail file. If the high voltage connector is corroded, it is best to let the dealership clean that. Mind you, it might be necessary to replace the HV cable if it is severly corroded. Though you might be curious, do not touch the metal surfaces inside of the connector. Your skin oil can adversely affect the quality of the connection.


To remove the black foam cover, use a plastic trim tool, or a pair of butter knifes to pull straight up on the center "button" inside of the "volcano". It has to raise about 1/2 inch before it will release from the bracket underneath the black foam cover. Do this for both buttons. Once the buttons are up, pull up on both buttons to release the clips and enable the black foam cover to be removed from the bracket.

To install the black foam cover, position the cover so that the buttons kind of seat in the holes of the bracket underneath. Push down on the volcano, and while doing so, push the button down. It takes a little fiddling around to get the buttons into the holes of the bracket.

To shut off high voltage. open the hood. open the rear passenger door and flip forward the rear passenger seat. Disconnect the positive terminal cable from the 12v battery, and position it so that it cannot mistakenly make contact with the battery positive terminal. At this point, the vehicle must be completely "dead". Wait 5 minutes. Behind the rear passenger seat is a small black door, flip that down. You will see the orange high voltage disconnect. Press the white clip and raise the black handle about to 45 degrees. Press the white clip again and continue to raise the handle to 90 degrees. Separate the disconnect from the battery pack. The vehicle high voltage is shut down. But you must still be cautious. Also here, do not touch the metal plates of the disconnect, as your skin oil can adversely affect the quality of the connection.

To power back on high voltage, place the disconnect back onto the orange socket of the high voltage battery. While pressing it in, release the white clip and lower the black handle from 90 degress to 45 degress. Press the white clip again and lower the handle all the way down until it clicks. Put the black cover back on. Return the rear passenger seat back to its riding position. Reconnect the postitive terminal cable to the 12V battery positive terminal.

Know that most EV techs at dealerships don't know that much about the electric power train. Sadly, they will be guessing and just throwing parts at a lot of the problems that happen with EVs. This is why you read so many postings of how it takes so long for the dealer to solve the problem.

Good Luck

 

[Heima]

In response to your other question, when you open the driver door, listen for a clunk from the rear of the vehicle. if your ears are good enough, you might hear three clunks together. The clunks are the high voltage battery being turned on. If you do nothing for about 1 minute, or leave the car and shut the door, you will hear the clunk again, that is the high voltage battery turning off.
You will also hear this clunking when starting the vehicle.

 

[Heima]

I want to apologize.
It seems that it is not possible to use a regular OBDII scanner on the FFE. I tried with two scanners this weekend. A made in 2017 cheapie no-name model, and a quality OTC SPX model. Because in the past I had used a dual speed ELM327 interface with Forscan, I was able to pull OBDII type DTC codes. I mistakenly thought that those same DTC codes would be visible with a run-of-the-mill OBDII scanner.
I do hope that I did not contribute to your frustration.

Was removing F1 and pulling and reinstalling F22 of any benefit?

 

[qflyer]

I want to apologize.
It seems that it is not possible to use a regular OBDII scanner on the FFE. I tried with two scanners this weekend. A made in 2017 cheapie no-name model, and a quality OTC SPX model. Because in the past I had used a dual speed ELM327 interface with Forscan, I was able to pull OBDII type DTC codes. I mistakenly thought that those same DTC codes would be visible with a run-of-the-mill OBDII scanner.
I do hope that I did not contribute to your frustration.

Was removing F1 and pulling and reinstalling F22 of any benefit?

I did try a scanner at autozone, and got an error. No worries, I already had the car on the trailer to take to ford the next morning. I tried the fuses, no change. Checked all the connections I could. None were loose, corroded, full of water, or anything crazy like that. Dropped it off at the dealership last week and they say it’ll be at least another week before they can diagnose it.

I have zero faith that they know anything about this car. One guy that called to tell me they weren’t able to get to it before last weekend said, “good news! It looks like there’s a recall on the charger cord on these cars. Maybe that’s the problem!” I told him I’d already gotten the new charger and that’s unrelated. He said, “well, you never know. Maybe you got a bad charger?”

Today, a different guy called to tell me they hadn’t gotten to it yet, and he said, “looks like your car hasn’t had the modem recall performed yet. I’m going to have the tech look at that, and I think that could solve your problem! Fingers crossed!”

lol, what’s wrong with these guys?

Thanks for all your help, I’ll post as I get updates.

What’s the best way to dispose of the car if it’s something like a bad battery? Junk yard? Part it out? Light it on fire? It’s gotta be worth something to somebody.

 

[triangles]

If you're anywhere near Ohio I'd take at least the battery. Been looking for a salvage one for the right price. Problem is there are none around here let alone would they be at the right price.

 

[AnnePatt]

We just donated our 2013 Ford Focus Electric to Melwood. We decided not to replace the $13,031.21 battery pack because we would have to pay for it. https://www.melwood.org/vehicle-donation 5606 Dower House Road, Upper Marlboro, MD 20772 Toll free number: 1-877-Melwood (1-877-635-9663).

What Happened: On September 21, 2020, at 7:05 am, my 2013 Ford Focus Electric, “Filly,” gave me the “Stop Safely Now” warning after I parked between a Chevrolet Dealership and a Mazda/Volkswagen Dealership to charge at a ChargePoint charging station. My mileage was 105,288.0. I am grateful to God that it decided to do this after I was safely parked. During my trip I did get a “Service Vehicle” tool icon (picture of a wrench) and I continued driving until I reached my destination. I couldn’t charge the car because the ChargePoint charging station was out of service. When I pushed the start button the Stop Safely Now message appeared on the display and the “Drive” icon did not appear.

Before my husband got on the road for the 29 mile, 45-minute drive to me, he asked me to ask the dealership service departments (Chevrolet and Mazda/Volkswagen) near where I parked to disconnect the 12-volt battery, let it sit for a half an hour, to reset the codes, and then reconnect the 12-volt battery. Both service departments would not touch the car because it is all electric.

I called a local mechanic and asked him if he could come over and disconnect the 12-volt battery, and he came over. My husband asked him to bring his scan tool.

The mechanic disconnected the 12-volt battery and his scan tool revealed a problem with the “drivetrain.” The car would not show the drive icon, even after reconnecting the 12-volt battery. My husband asked the mechanic to disconnect it again to let it sit for 30 minutes before reconnecting so he did and he left his tool with us so my husband could reconnect it after we waiting a while. Still it did not show the drive icon.

So, we called AAA and had it towed to our Annapolis Ford dealership. We returned the tool to the mechanic.

Ford said that the pump which pumps the liquid coolant through the battery pack leaked and damaged the battery. The solution was to replace the battery pack.
The replacement battery pack costs $13,031.21. Our Service Advisor at the Ford Service Department in Annapolis said he can not install a used battery if I found one from a used vehicle, or from a salvage vehicle. The total cost to replace plus labor would be around $15,000, and the total cost of ownership is $5,362.50. It is really unfortunate especially since we had new tires put on a year ago and the car is in great condition. We really took good care of it.

I called Ford Parts and they gave me the part number for the remanufactured battery pack that costs $13,031.21: CM5Z-10B759-TARM. https://parts.ford.com/shop/en/us/electrical/battery-and-related-components/battery-12250777-1 The price of the part varies by dealership. The lowest cost was about $11,000, from a Ford dealership near Hampton, VA. We paid $298 for the diagnostic labor charge, asked the service department to put it back together. We donated it to Melwood.

So, my husband and I donated because we could not find someone to repair the damaged battery pack. It is very disappointing because “Filly” got me to and from work for 8 years, 2013-2020, 105,288 miles, and I work 29 miles away I charged it daily especially in the cooler months. At least I am working from home during the pandemic and don’t have to drive daily.

This is what we sent to the Ford Mechanic on “Just Answer.com” on Monday morning, October 12, 2020, at 3:00 am-

Dear Sir,

Our Ford Focus Electric 2013 23 MHz battery cooling pump failed which leaked its coolant into the battery casing causing damage. The car is now undrivable. The only solution Ford offered us is their remanufactured battery at a cost of $13,031.21. This exceeds the worth of the car. The battery pack cost is too high and therefore we have a perfectly good car that we cannot drive. If you have any suggestions for us it would be much appreciated.

JA: How old are the hoses? And have you tested the actual mix of your coolant?

Customer: The car is 2013 and almost 8 years old. The Ford dealership service department told us that the pump failed that pumps the coolant and damaged the battery pack.

JA: Are you fixing your Focus Electric yourself? What have you tried so far?

Customer: We don't have the knowledge to do that and we do not know anyone who can fix/resurrect the battery pack. We had planned to by the new Ford Mach-E, but we are concerned about availability of reasonably priced replacement battery pack.

JA: Anything else you want the Mechanic to know before I connect you?

Customer: Yes, why can't Ford provide a program to reasonably repair battery pack for EVs.

Continued conversation with Ford Mechanic:

Ford Mechanic: Hi Anne I hope you are well. I’m sorry to hear you are having troubles. This is unfortunately the downside to replacement battery pack. The problem you have is it’s likely the battery is damaged to the extent that it cannot be overhauled leaving you with the only option to replace. It’s either replace with a new part as quoted or you could try and source a used part but dealers typically won’t fit them so you would also have to find a garage capable of carrying out the repair.

Anne: Can you recommend a garage that services electric vehicles near me?

Ford Mechanic: Unfortunately, I’m in the U.K. so I won’t be able to assist with a recommendation. I would get a second opinion though as most dealerships won’t in my personal experience repair, they prefer to replace

 

[electrons]

qflyer, Usually a Ford dealership does have plenty of high-voltage electrical technicians, since Ford has been selling Hybrids for 15 years now. And they just go by Ford diagnostic trees to lead them through stuff anyway. I've had some bugs & written some threads on electrical gremlins in the past couple of years, but my '16 Focus Electric is going strong right now anyway.

AnnePatt, It is true these Focus Electrics will, at some point in the years, leak coolant. I've seen it in Ford Technical Service Bulletins. Out of warranty you have no alternative to just junking the car, unless you want to spend a ton.
Interestingly, the ~120-mile-range Nissan Leaf uses air cooling, so no liquid coolant can contaminate the battery. ( In Maryland, or really anywhere the temperature is usually under 100 degrees F outside, the Nissan Leaf air cooling works very well. Arizona Leafs have had some problems though. ) I'd buy a 2nd generation (the curren gen) Nissan Leaf, mainly because their range is decent and they aren't ugly like the 1st gen models!!

 

[Heima]

This is so sad. I am so sorry your car met that horrible fate, Anne. It just doesn't seem fair that cars that are really simple in design, are so difficult to get repaired. It is from mechanics lack of knowledge, or their disinterest to learn and understand evs, that the majority of EV repairs become so problematic.
It also doesn't help that the manufacturers believe that the battery is unrepairable. It is repairable, if not, how would it be possible to have a rebuilt battery pack? Why would there be so many Youtube videos of high voltage battery teardowns? Anyhow, the manufacturers would rather replace the entire battery, than repair the battery, because they believe the mechanics incapable of doing that type of repair, and it does require some special tools.

In your case, the mechanics created a mis-diagnosis because they did not know themselves.
Most likely the vehicle had a DTC that stated an isolation loss in one of the batteries.
The most likely reason for that is coolant leaking in and shorting the electrical path.
But moist air inside of the battery can do the same thing.
The steps to check were probably too overwhelming for the mechanics, so they just made up the coolant pump problem.
A failed coolant pump would not leak coolant into the hv battery.
If a coolant pump fails, the coolant pressure drops, and no or very little coolant flows.
How could that cause a leak?
If the coolant pump could somehow over speed, it might develop enough pressure to rupture a connection within the pack.
But this is unlikely because the vehicle has the ability to run the pump at maximum speed during fast charging a hot pack in high ambient temperature.
If there is a coolant leak in the battery pack, the most likely cause is because someone did a pressure test of the cooling system, not knowing that it must be done at a low pressure.
When there is a coolant leak in the battery pack, there are two drain plugs on the underside of the lower battery that can be removed to check for the presence of coolant sloshing around in the battery pack.

Lets assume that there in fact was a coolant leak in the battery pack. Which ever pack could have been removed, opened, the coolant removed. and the components inspected. If the damage was not severe, the leak could have been traced, repaired and if the high voltage connections were not damaged, the contactors were not damaged, the battery could have been reused.

The above service work would require a mechanic,/tech who is famiilar with high voltage batteries, and if certain parts were necessary, like coolant fittings, it might take a while to source replacements, but if the leak was from something simple, like a hose separating from a cooling plate, the fix would be so easy.

I am sorry that this happened to you and your much beloved car. It is sad that such reliable vehicles have an achilles heel of mechanic ignorance.

 

[Heima]

Believe it or not, the modem recall might help. The modem is in the telematics control module, TCM, that fuse 1 is for the TCM as well. It might help.

If you would like, if you can get any DTC/error codes out of the dealer, post them here, and I will take a look in the service manual, to see what it says about them.

Good Luck.

 

[qflyer]

Well, after three weeks waiting for a tech to look at the car, I received this text today: “ So we've hit a major roadblock...the hybrid batteries need to be replaced to the tune of $5136.43 as they are leaking coolant. Also know, that this may not be the end of the repair as there is potentially a coolant leak that needs to be addressed unless it comes as a complete unit inside the hybrid batteries.”

I’ve asked for more info, but still awaiting a response. Has anyone successfully repaired a battery with this kind of damage? I’m not sure I’d be interested as I’ve already bought a Nissan Leaf to replace the FFE, but I’m trying to figure out if the battery is worth anything to someone in the off-grid community or something like that. What’s the battery worth as is right now?

 

[skyguy_6153]

qflyer, Usually a Ford dealership does have plenty of high-voltage electrical technicians, since Ford has been selling Hybrids for 15 years now. And they just go by Ford diagnostic trees to lead them through stuff anyway. I've had some bugs & written some threads on electrical gremlins in the past couple of years, but my '16 Focus Electric is going strong right now anyway.

AnnePatt, It is true these Focus Electrics will, at some point in the years, leak coolant. I've seen it in Ford Technical Service Bulletins. Out of warranty you have no alternative to just junking the car, unless you want to spend a ton.
Interestingly, the ~120-mile-range Nissan Leaf uses air cooling, so no liquid coolant can contaminate the battery. ( In Maryland, or really anywhere the temperature is usually under 100 degrees F outside, the Nissan Leaf air cooling works very well. Arizona Leafs have had some problems though. ) I'd buy a 2nd generation (the curren gen) Nissan Leaf, mainly because their range is decent and they aren't ugly like the 1st gen models!!

There is a work around that will cost you less than $15 (depending if you have the tools also (main tool you'll need is a cherrypicker). Long story short, I was having the same problem (coolant leak inside the pack, so the FFE would throw a SSN light, and a DTC for an isolation fault). With sdome help from other owners on the FFE facebook page I was able to get my FFE working again. To workaround this, you'll need to remover the upper battery pack ( just the one in the rear of the car), disassemble and remove the the modules, remove the heat exchangers/cooling plates between each cell (use a plastic prying tool to open each tab on the side of the module, it's to risky to use something like a flathead screwdriver as you could potentially rupture a cell), snap them back together and reconnect everything. As for the cooling lines on the back, and the black assembly those cooling lines connect to, leave all that out the pack, and take the black assembly to an autoparts store and have them match up some hose that'll fit the inlets on the black assembly (make sure to get 2 clamps also!). Next, you'll cut the inlets off the black assembly, and put those in their respective hoses in the car. Now just fit the clamps over the hose you got from the auto parts store, and connect the hose to the inlets.