2014 Ford Focus joins my 2012 LEAF as my only cars.

[ELROY]

Just picked up a Platinum White FFEV the other day. The current incentives are just too good to pass up. I liked the performance of the Spark and the i3. The Spark however is too short on the luxuries of the FFE/LEAF such as HID/LED headlights, Navigation, leather, back up cam, etc. The Focus is pretty unique in this segment in that it also has a power drivers seat, PDC alert along with the back up camera, . The Focus interior is a very luxurious and well equipped environment. Pleasant, multicolor interior lighting in the cup holders, foot well, door pockets, and door handles! All kinds of nice touches. The i3 while offering great acceleration and dynamics, just doesn't look as classy as the FFE, and almost awkward at times. The interior door panels and dash on the FFE look twice as good as the i3. So to pay more than double the payment on an i3 just didn't make sense to me right now.

The downside compared to my 2012 LEAF SL:

No DCQC.
Less trunk space. With the child seat in the back, my 3yr old can easily kick the front seat if it is in anywhere near a normal position with a RF passenger sitting in it. The LEAF can accommodate a child seat behind the front seat without it being close enough for my 3 year old to kick it.

The throttle response is horrible compared to the LEAF. I knew the FFE was slower off the line than the LEAF as I raced my coworker previously. The LEAF literally leaps away from the FFE. In fact, the latest C&D test confirms the FFE is the slowest EV 0-30mph at 4.0 seconds. The Spark/500e/FIT/Smart all do it in 3.1-3.2 seconds. The biggest annoyance is that if you slam the throttle, it doesn't even start accelerating till a split second later. Ironically, when your barely throttle out of a corner, the tires often squeal under acceleration. Real strange. Its like the module has no real control of optimal acceleration. It seems this is something Ford could fix with a software fix. I swear the car seems to have better throttle response in reverse. Has anyone made that comparison?

On the other hand, I love how the LEAF throttle response is instantaneous. The LEAF has more of a feel that you are gliding efficiently on a smooth, quiet magic carpet. After getting in the LEAF after driving the FFE I thought I would no longer appreciate it, relegating it to the forgotten step child status. Truth is, my LEAF still feels wonderful in its own way. I love how I can see the KW draw of the motor and accessories on one screen. Also, using the AC on the LEAF only reduces range by 1-2 miles or so. Its seems super efficient, often drawing only about 250 watts. On the other hand, the FFE has no such wattage gauges, but the AC usage shows a 10 mile hit on the predicted range!

The Focus seems to have much more drive train slop/clunking. When turning right into my driveway to slowly go up it, I even notice a power delivery pulsation at times. Just does not seem as refined as the LEAF drivetrain, especially when comparing a 17,000 mile LEAF against the Focus at 600 miles.

Even though it has nice LED headlight eyebrows and Xenon headlights, and LED license plate lights, they left the welcome lighting (under the side mirrors) in very non high-tech incandescent lighting. Again, a small nit pick considering the LEAF doesn't even offer welcome lighting at the exterior door area. But unlike the LEAF, the FFEV does not have a built in garage door opener, which is a shame.

The Good:
Overall, a nice car with unbeatable standard features and a high quality feel.
The mobile app is probably superior in that you can set the charge times by your phone. Locate the car on a map. Unlock/lock it. See the last trip efficiency, stats, etc.
Nice Leather seats, with power drivers seal. (could probably do without the swirl perforated patterns in the leather.
First time I hit an onramp, the car definitely feels more comfortable and willing in the curves.
Under part throttle it has excellent performance. (just doesn't react when you mash the throttle)
It a nice/classy looking car with the standard alloy wheels, fitted with quality Michelin Tires.
The dash looks very high tech and expensive. The A/C vent knobs have a nice smooth dampened look to them.
(only wish there were a multi selection knob, instead of having to press on the screen all the time, with fingerprints becoming really visible)
Happy it has 6.6kw charging compared to my 12 LEAF SL.
As much as I complain about the low speed performance...from 30-50, and 50-70, the Focus tests quicker than the LEAF. (although the standing still start is so bad the LEAF still finishes the qtr mile quicker)
Window sticker was about $37K, compared to $38K for the LEAF. The monthly payment is about $10 less than the LEAF with the same exact $2500 down payment.

Will keep you posted as I experience more.

Even though I no longer have any ICE vehicle in the household, having two EVs allows you to drive more miles in a day. If one of them runs out of charge, you can then plug it in, and switch to the other EV.

Update: Only have 600 miles on the Focus. I would have to say I am a little disappointed in the road manners of the car. It seems to have very little straight line stability. It almost feels tipsy, or top heavy. It seems to react to anything over 1/4 throttle with very noticeable torque steer. The car tends to veer to the right. If you try to correct, the car may then swerve and veer to the right. I am hoping the car just needs an alignment, but I'm not so sure. If you coast in neutral, the car seems to steer normal enough. But driving down the road, it is much harder to keep in your lane than the absolutely effortless LEAF. Has anyone else noticed this trait with the Focus? Keep in mind the 2012 LEAF makes over 200lbs of torque, and literally leaps away from the Focus from a stand still. I wonder if this torque steer in a known problem, and part of Ford's solution to minimize it, was to neuter the power delivery down low. The instant torque and acceleration of the LEAF is one of the most enjoyable aspects of everyday driving. This torque steer, straight line stability issue is really going but a damper on my enjoyment of the car if it can't be resolve. Especially with the mild low end acceleration and throttle response. Has anyone else noticed these steering issues? Anyone with both the LEAF and FFE to compare also?

 

[jmueller065]

I love how I can see the KW draw of the motor and accessories on one screen.

(Given the context not sure if that statement above is about the LEAF or the FFE.)
You can configure the left screen to show that on the FFE:
http://jamiegeek.myevblog.com/2013/09/25/butterflies-really-what-your-dashboard-can-tell-you/

 

[kmaluo]

Great comparison! Yeah, the torque steer on my 2013 is horrible. I struggle to keep it on a straight line when I'm quickly accelerating. I think you might be right, that this is the reason Ford killed the bottom end acceleration. It's obvious by the battery placement that the Focus Electric is going to be top heavy. I'm sure it has highest center of gravity of all current electric sedans.

 

[michael]

As pointed out, you can get the climate power consumption to display...the display on the left of the steering wheel.

I complained about the torque steer and overlight steering, but I had an alignment done and both are much better. I'm thinking maybe the factory alignment has too little toe-in.

 

[ELROY]

As pointed out, you can get the climate power consumption to display...the display on the left of the steering wheel.

I complained about the torque steer and overlight steering, but I had an alignment done and both are much better. I'm thinking maybe the factory alignment has too little toe-in.

Dropped the car off at the dealership. Drove another new Focus, it seemed less irritating. So I left it there for alignment tomorrow. Will see how it works out.

From a full charge to 0 range, the car is right at 20kwh usable it seems. I only get about 60 miles on average. That is at around 3mi/kWh or 333watts/mi. Sure I could hyper mile, and have achieved 183wh/mile the other day. But that's not normal driving. On the LEAF even with the AC on, I can get 4mi/kwh easily or 250wh/mile. I think a big reason is the LEAF AC system on average only draws 250-350 watts. The Focus was showing 2000watts, Yikes! That would explain the poor range ppossibly.

 

[unplugged]

Great comparison! Yeah, the torque steer on my 2013 is horrible. I struggle to keep it on a straight line when I'm quickly accelerating. I think you might be right, that this is the reason Ford killed the bottom end acceleration. It's obvious by the battery placement that the Focus Electric is going to be top heavy. I'm sure it has highest center of gravity of all current electric sedans.

The Car & Driver EV comparison found that the Focus Electric was one of the best handling EVs. C&D reported that the Leaf wasn't much fun to drive and was not as composed as the FFE. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2014-chevy-spark-ev-vs-fiat-500e-ford-focus-electric-honda-fit-ev-nissan-leaf-smart-fortwo-ed-comparison-test Many reviewers have suggested that the Leaf drives like an appliance. And I agree with that assessment.

Yes, it is true, the FFE has torque steer. It is easily handled once you get used to it. And yes, the FFE has quick and nimble steering. It takes some getting used to unless you have owned a sports (or even sporty) car. Numb steering is the purview of soft-riding, comfortable floaty sedans. The FFE is not a sedan built for boulevard cruising. And I like that. It simply depends upon your tastes.

But to describe the FFE as a top-heavy car, is to not understand the handling dynamics built in to any Focus.

 

[Abelgoddard]

Well, I only just got my FFE, and certainly don't have a LEAF for comparison, but I've also noticed the same issues with acceleration and steering - 1) torque steering (easily overcome), and 2) slow to get off-the-line, but quick acceleration when you're 'at speed'. While I would prefer a quicker get-up-and-go, I'm absolutely in love with the quickness and handling at speed. There are frequent instances of that 'feature' being very useful to me, and probably somewhat startling to the other driver I was getting around.

As to how much the AC hurts the 'mileage', I couldn't say. I'm in Dallas, and the AC stays on all the time, no question. It's a hit I'm willing to take, for sure. I anticipate a slight trade-off in our 'winter' by not having to run the heater as much. ;-)

I have some other nit-picky type issues with the FFE, but easily the biggest is the lack of 'cubby' space. I come from Honda Accords, which have many pockets for the loose items you (okay, maybe just me but I doubt it) keep in the car. Not counting the cup holders, my Accord had 3 more spaces for things to store. 1 small, just above the gear shift, which kept the garage door opener (I also hated that my last Accord didn't have the built-in opener). 1 large, under the radio/AC controls. 1 medium, a tray inside the armrest (above and separate from the main storage in the armrest). I judge the Accord tray far superior to the lift-out tray of the FFE. That lift-out is more annoyance than help, IMO. And in addition to being a better tray, it also had coin slots - a feature I'm SHOCKED the FFE doesn't have. When I re-visited the dealer to pick up my plates, that was the main gripe I told him to convey up the line.

The other minor gripe I have is the glove box. It opens too flat, and any loose small item - say, a tire pressure gauge - can easily slip halfway out and prevent closing. Given the distance to reach said obstruction, it becomes difficult to accomplish. But it's minor overall, as glove box access is not really even a weekly occurrence for me.

As to trunk space, sure any other car has more, but it's not a complaint of mine as I view the lack as part of the overall car design, and if trunk space were a real issue I'd look for a car that had plenty. After all, this isn't a car that's going on long road trips.

 

[ELROY]

Great comparison! Yeah, the torque steer on my 2013 is horrible. I struggle to keep it on a straight line when I'm quickly accelerating. I think you might be right, that this is the reason Ford killed the bottom end acceleration. It's obvious by the battery placement that the Focus Electric is going to be top heavy. I'm sure it has highest center of gravity of all current electric sedans.

The Car & Driver EV comparison found that the Focus Electric was one of the best handling EVs. C&D reported that the Leaf wasn't much fun to drive and was not as composed as the FFE. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2014-chevy-spark-ev-vs-fiat-500e-ford-focus-electric-honda-fit-ev-nissan-leaf-smart-fortwo-ed-comparison-test Many reviewers have suggested that the Leaf drives like an appliance. And I agree with that assessment.

Yes, it is true, the FFE has torque steer. It is easily handled once you get used to it. And yes, the FFE has quick and nimble steering. It takes some getting used to unless you have owned a sports (or even sporty) car. Numb steering is the purview of soft-riding, comfortable floaty sedans. The FFE is not a sedan built for boulevard cruising. And I like that. It simply depends upon your tastes.

But to describe the FFE as a top-heavy car, is to not understand the handling dynamics built in to any Focus.

I have driven so many cars, and the Focus is the first to exhibit this unpleasant straight line characteristic.

My Past Cars:
1984 Civic (Great/stable steering)
2004 325i
2005 M3 Conv
2006 M3 Coupe
2007 335i (11 second 1/4 mile)
2008 335i Coupe (132 mph 1/4 trap, 550hp+)
2008 335i Sedan (128 mph trap, 11.1 sec qtr)
2011 335d Sedan 12.3 qtr mile)
2013 Mini Cooper S (tuned and still great stability)

Current Drives:
2012 LEAF
2014 Focus

Just look under hotrod182 under drag times or Youtube and you can see some of my performance records and videos. Including some canyon runs vs sport bikes.

So yes, I understand performance, handling, and vehicle dynamics.

And if you refer to that same C&D test, you will see the LEAF at .80Gs, actually cornered with a higher skid pad than any of the other cars in the test. The Focus did the slalom an insignificant .10 mph higher, despite the LEAF wearing less aggressive rubber. So, on paper, the Focus does NOT have a significant handling advantage. The Focus also had a longer 70-0mph stopping distance.

As one of the only rear weight bias FWD cars in recent memory, the Focus is really a recipe for disaster when it comes to FWD dynamics. With the weight transfer during acceleration, the Focus would have difficulty matching the traction of the other platforms in the test. And with the higher CG of the battery back, its no wonder the handling is quirky to say the least.

Again, if I can get this thing to be a little more civilized, I will be happy. But if you live with both cars beyond just a track test, you will definitely be able to appreciate the virtues of the LEAF more. And if you research, that same C&D magazine had a test with a stock suspension LEAF cornering as high a skid pad number as a Porsche by changing to more aggressive tires. With adding just the $98 Yokohama tires, the grip jumped up to .84Gs, woke up the handling and responsiveness.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-nearly-10-g-nissan-leaf-getting-an-ev-to-grip-like-a-911-feature

The LEAF off the line quickness advantage more than makes up for its perceived lack of handling. The refined steering and smooth ride are noticeable differences once you start living with both cars.

 

[EVA]

You do realize there are two battery packs in this car? One under the rear seat and the other in the trunk.

Yeah higher CG than the Leaf, maybe (purpose built with the batteries in the floor, right?). But higher CG than the Focus ICE - no I think you're wrong on that count.

Funny, you list of cars, virtually all rear wheel drive.

 

[kmaluo]

You do realize there are two battery packs in this car? One under the rear seat and the other in the trunk.

Yeah higher CG than the Leaf, maybe (purpose built with the batteries in the floor, right?). But higher CG than the Focus ICE - no I think you're wrong on that count.

Funny, you list of cars, virtually all rear wheel drive.

The Focus ICE has a gas tank that's located under the car, and holds approximately 100 pounds of gasoline. Both batteries of the FFE are significantly above where the gas tank should be, and weigh in at 600 pounds. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that the FFE has a higher CG than the Focus ICE.

 

[ELROY]

You do realize there are two battery packs in this car? One under the rear seat and the other in the trunk.

Yeah higher CG than the Leaf, maybe (purpose built with the batteries in the floor, right?). But higher CG than the Focus ICE - no I think you're wrong on that count.

Funny, you list of cars, virtually all rear wheel drive.

The Focus ICE has a gas tank that's located under the car, and holds approximately 100 pounds of gasoline. Both batteries of the FFE are significantly above where the gas tank should be, and weigh in at 600 pounds. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that the FFE has a higher CG than the Focus ICE.

Absolutely. And with rear weight bias at a high CG, this itself would lend to some relative instability.

Yes, I have had mostly rear wheel drive cars couple of Vettes. But I drove that Honda for decades too. I do a lot of BMW performance work, so I also had a 725hp+, 2014 M5 to test for a couple of weeks. (678rwhp).That car also trapped 130mph in the qtr and was capable of a 10 second run with better traction. It spun it's tires at 80mph! Driving and evaluating cars performance is a hobby of mine. I had the Focus on my VBox GPS performance computer the second day I had it.

 

[ElSupreme]

I know this isn't a measure of CG, but it is very applicabe to CG. And CG plays a large factor. Either way this is probably the best meausre of 'top heavy'.

The FFE has a less chance of rollover than either the ICE Focus, or the LEAF.

Results from safercar.gov

 

[unplugged]

The FFE has a less chance of rollover than either the ICE Focus, or the LEAF.

Results from safercar.gov

You are correct, and thanks for pointing this out. The rollover test has a direct correlation to CG, especially between the gasser Focus and the Electric.

So I think the "top-heavy" issue has been dealt with.

 

[unplugged]

And with rear weight bias at a high CG, this itself would lend to some relative instability.

"Rear weight bias" is absurd. The car is nearly 50/50, or more like 51/49 if I remember correctly. And to suggest that the CG on the Focus is "high" without any substantiation is likewise absurd.

Your attempt to resuscitate the appliance-like handling of the Leaf by trashing the Focus Electric is unique. No other reviews have faulted the handling of the Focus Electric, especially as compared to the Leaf. And MANY critics have faulted the lack of composure of the Leaf. And as pointed out above, the rollover rating for the Focus Electric is five stars as compared to the four star gasser Focus, so obviously there is not a "high CG" on the Focus Electric. Quite the opposite.

 

[jmueller065]

Well...its rear weight biased by about 60 lbs when there is no driver sitting in the car:

(Note that since this is/was a truck scale: "Steer Axle" is the front axle, and "Drive Axle" is the rear axle on the FFE.)

I would imagine that a driver would push it almost exactly to 50/50 since they are slightly forward...

 

[ELROY]

And with rear weight bias at a high CG, this itself would lend to some relative instability.

"Rear weight bias" is absurd. The car is nearly 50/50, or more like 51/49 if I remember correctly. And to suggest that the CG on the Focus is "high" without any substantiation is likewise absurd.

Your attempt to resuscitate the appliance-like handling of the Leaf by trashing the Focus Electric is unique. No other reviews have faulted the handling of the Focus Electric, especially as compared to the Leaf. And MANY critics have faulted the lack of composure of the Leaf. And as pointed out above, the rollover rating for the Focus Electric is five stars as compared to the four star gasser Focus, so obviously there is not a "high CG" on the Focus Electric. Quite the opposite.

Rollover ratings are not a sole indication of a cars CG. I have no idea why the ICE Focus would have a worse rollover rating? Is there any documentation out there to prove the ICE has a higher CG than the EV Focus?

As far as the LEAF, rollover compared to the Focus has as much to do with the LEAFs much softer suspension. The same suspension that gives the LEAF a much smoother, and refined ride. And why not, by no means does the Focus handle like a sports car. Besides the LEAF, the Focus would be the worst handling car of any of the many cars I have owned. So since I don't pretend it to be a sports car, I would at least expect a level of refinement in the steering that doesn't feel darty, or requiring constant attention to get the car to keep a straight line like any normal car. The ride and smoothness of the LEAF is on a much greater improvement level over the Focus, than the overall handling of the Focus is over the LEAF's capabilities. Remember, with narrower tires the LEAF corners harder, stops shorter, and nearly ties the Focus slalom speed, without the ill handling characteristics of the Focus.

Since you don't seem to be convinced, I will post some of the exact same handling complaints by others on this forum if I can find them.

And perhaps you don't understand the significance of a FWD car with a rear weight bias, or anything close to it. On a RWD car, it is fine, because when you accelerate, the weight of the car transfers back to the rear wheels for traction. On a FWD car (especially one like the Focus with less weight on the front axle to begin with) acceleration is further hampered when the lightly loaded front wheels, have even less weight on them due to weight transfer during acceleration. A 911 or most mid engine cars have fantastic traction grip because their rear weight bias becomes even more pronounced when accelerating. A proven platform. Think of the Focus as going to the other extreme of idea weight distribution when it comes to acceleration. Remember, I am complaining primarily of the handling characteristics of the Focus during acceleration, or maintaining highway speeds etc.

 

[ELROY]

Well...its rear weight biased by about 60 lbs when there is no driver sitting in the car:

(Note that since this is/was a truck scale: "Steer Axle" is the front axle, and "Drive Axle" is the rear axle on the FFE.)

I would imagine that a driver would push it almost exactly to 50/50 since they are slightly forward...

To be fair, the influence of the driver's weight would apply the same way to other vehicles too.

 

[jmueller065]

To be fair, the influence of the driver's weight would apply the same way to other vehicles too.

Sure, that is a given. I only pointed it out because of the very slight rear bias. I would gather that the other cars that were shooting for that perfect 50/50 ratio would also put a slight bias towards the rear so that the driver makes up the difference...

 

[ELROY]

To be fair, the influence of the driver's weight would apply the same way to other vehicles too.

Sure, that is a given. I only pointed it out because of the very slight rear bias. I would gather that the other cars that were shooting for that perfect 50/50 ratio would also put a slight bias towards the rear so that the driver makes up the difference...

With the polar, moment of inertias involved, etc...a slight rear weight bias, especially one out towards the cargo area, can induce an otherwise neutral car into oversteer. With normal front bias, it just results in benign understeer, and plow, which is the generally the safe recipe for most family oriented cars. It doesn't take much weight at all to make one end of the car favor the other when it comes to weight bias. This is why most cars with a rear weight bias will have wider tires in the back.

 

[unplugged]

Is there any documentation out there to prove the ICE has a higher CG than the EV Focus?

Yes. I just provided it. The Focus Electric has a five-star rollover rating, the gasser Focus does not. The NHTSA descirbes the rollover resistance rating as follows: "The Rollover Rating essentially measures how "top-heavy" a vehicle is. The more "top-heavy" the vehicle, the more likely it is to roll over. The lowest rated vehicles (1-star) are at least 4 times more likely to roll over than the highest rated vehicles (5-stars). http://www.nhtsa.gov/Cars/rules/rulings/roll_resistance/index.html

So, once again, your top-heavy assertion about the Focus Electric is wrong. And your assertion about the Leaf having a more "refined" ride and thus not deserving of a five-star rating is likewise wrong. The Leaf didn't merit a five-star rating. Since the NHTSA determines rollover resistance by how "top-heavy" a car is, the Leaf is MORE top-heavy than the Focus Electric.

As far as the LEAF, rollover compared to the Focus has as much to do with the LEAFs much softer suspension. The same suspension that gives the LEAF a much smoother, and refined ride. And why not, by no means does the Focus handle like a sports car. Besides the LEAF, the Focus would be the worst handling car of any of the many cars I have owned. So since I don't pretend it to be a sports car, I would at least expect a level of refinement in the steering that doesn't feel darty, or requiring constant attention to get the car to keep a straight line like any normal car.

As I stated earlier, your taste obviously goes to the spongy, softly sprung, appliance-like ride of the Leaf. So your idea of "worst handling" is based on your desire for what the elderly refer to as a "smooth" ride. I, on the other hand, happen to enjoy a quicker, more responsive ride. This same admiration for better handling is reflected in the auto media, where the Focus Electric has been much admired. From Car & Driver to Consumer Reports, all of the critics have been satisfied with the Focus Electric.

The ride and smoothness of the LEAF is on a much greater improvement level over the Focus, than the overall handling of the Focus is over the LEAF's capabilities. Remember, with narrower tires the LEAF corners harder, stops shorter, and nearly ties the Focus slalom speed, without the ill handling characteristics of the Focus.

Again, your desire for a "boulevard ride" is simply a matter of taste. I refer you to a myriad of auto magazines that would disagree with you that the Leaf is any "improvement" over the Focus Electric in handling. I'm not going to waste my time going through all the reviews to prove my point. I have already linked to the Car & Driver report. These critics are the experts. You are not.

Since you don't seem to be convinced, I will post some of the exact same handling complaints by others on this forum if I can find them.

I don't need to be convinced by others so far as taste in handling is concerned. I am aware of some who don't prefer the quick and superior handling of the Focus Electric. Again, I take the critics point of view before I take the view of those who like a little bounce in their ride.

And perhaps you don't understand the significance of a FWD car with a rear weight bias, or anything close to it.

Perhaps you don't understand how to drive a FWD car? Or at least one that doesn't handle like an old Buick? Whether you are driving a 911 Porsche, a Corvette, or a Corvair, or a Pinto, or an Audi A4, 50/50 weight distribution is the ultimate attainment. Perhaps you can provide me some authority that states otherwise? Your desire to load the front end of a FWD car has consequences you don't clearly understand.