2017 FFE...no more allocation for 2017

[fbitz777]

I saw a few posts yesterday related to not being able to order a '17FFE as as of May 12th...seems the entire production has
been allocated already.

I have been trying to "order" one since December and was told last week that my region (Great Lakes) had no
allocation so far this year and that a regional manager was trying to pull some strings.

Looks like Ford is not really trying to sell the FFE ..but that much we knew. If the demand is there why would they not increase production?

 

[jmueller065]

Looks like Ford is not really trying to sell the FFE ..but that much we knew. If the demand is there why would they not increase production?

A few possibilities:

• Despite what Ford has been saying publicly: they really do hate EVs and don't want to make any
• Or perhaps Ford has something else in store for 2017 coming really soon? (hahahaha! yeah right who am I kidding)
• Your dealer is lying and really doesn't want to sell any more (probably not if you have a good working relationship with them)
• Perhaps Ford is having issues getting the new larger battery?

My money is on the first item to some extent.

 

[fbitz777]

I just think they had a certain number of FFE they planned to build and they are all allocated...seems like a majority went to Canada!
Certainly none in my region (I started inquiring back in December).

I had just brought my '16FFE for 20k maintenance, inspection and recalls (differential and TCU) and they were extremely nice and did all of it in a day....total charge was 28$ which is the only expense I had on car since new besides new tires.

And they had quoted me a trade in value for '16FFE and quote for '17FFE with nice discount.

But again I have yet to see another FFE around my area (vs tens of teslas)

 

[Jon_h]

At the beginning of the year I had multiple dealers give me the same line "No allocations". Well, maybe THEY couldn't get an allocation, but others could and I got my 2017.

I would not trust any dealer's word on that.

Anyway, there is a white 2017 on a dealer lot near me in Center line,Michigan.
http://shop.ford.com/inventory/focus/details/1FADP3R46HL229447?zipcode=48073&year=2017&ownerPACode=06256&altleadsource=bp

Other dealers have them too.

There have been a decent number of 2017s made.

 

[user 5595]

I just think they had a certain number of FFE they planned to build and they are all allocated...seems like a majority went to Canada!

Perhaps the allocations went to Canada, but the cars themselves haven't made it here yet. I just talked to my dealer, and mine's been on a train in Kent WA for two weeks now.

And of course I was overly optimistic and got rid of my old car three weeks ago.

 

[fbitz777]

actually thinking more about it:

I takes 90 days from order to delivery it seems and they usually end production in August
So it make sense that there would be no more allocation as they seem to have enough orders.

So does not mean you can't find a dealer without one (I my case however there are none even in a 100 mile radius)

 

[user 5595]

I takes 90 days from order to delivery it seems and they usually end production in August
So it make sense that there would be no more allocation as they seem to have enough orders.

But wouldn't it make sense to start taking 2018 orders earlier than that? Even with the understanding that they might not actually show up until 2018, it seems that they should want to hold onto potential customers.

So does not mean you can't find a dealer without one (I my case however there are none even in a 100 mile radius)

It's almost impossible to find one on a lot around these parts. A couple show up in Ford's online "dealer inventory", but when you contact the dealer they are already gone. (I tried this route a couple of months ago.)

It's not surprising. The one I'm getting wasn't a custom order by me, but was actually ordered by my dealer a couple of weeks before I went in. (I had reasons to be concerned about delivery timeline, so I compromised on colour to take what seemed more like a sure thing.)

One of the cars showing up online as being in my local dealer's inventory is, in fact, my car. The VIN matches the one they promised me.

 

[fbitz777]

Strange thing happened is that I got an allocation just now with ETA of mid October for build date
Considering I inquired and dealer put in the order early in 2017 and kept getting the"no allocation" message I find it strange.

would that be a 2018 model?

 

[Texas FFE]

Strange thing happened is that I got an allocation just now with ETA of mid October for build date
Considering I inquired and dealer put in the order early in 2017 and kept getting the"no allocation" message I find it strange.

would that be a 2018 model?

Considering the warranty date for my 2017 is 28-Sep-16, I would say that your car will more than likely be a 2028 model.

 

[spirilis]

It'd be a shame if they're not serious about EVs. The FFE '17 is a nice car and I'm happy I bought one. I get that they're concentrating more on the C-Max/Fusion Energi Hybrids, and they're selling more, but they could sell more FFE's if they marketed better. The mileage bump and DCFC really put it head-to-head with the Leaf and up near the top of the "gen 1" EVs in my opinion, hence why I bought it. Maybe they're nervous about the gen 2's (Leaf 2018, Model 3, current Bolt) and don't want to put in the effort to compete.

edit: Then again, maybe the Ford Focus Electric just isn't profitable? Loss-leader or "compliance car" as they say... Its active cooling system (chiller & heater) for the battery is a cut or 2 above the Leaf, and might add enough complexity to blow up the cost. So they'd want to sell them, but not build a whole lot of 'em.

 

[Smoking_Rubber]

It's been difficult to ignore the Model 3. That's a clean looking car even though it's approx 2X the price of a FFE. If Tesla were delivering model 3s right now I'd have a really hard time not choosing it. Luckily for Ford, I wouldn't get a Tesla for a year if I ordered it now. Since I don't want to wait that long I'll stick with a FFE.

I'm still going to wait a while for a 2018 FFE I know, but I'm sure it'll arrive before the end of 2018 like a Tesla ordered today would. Still, 300 mile range and free supercharging is super tempting.

 

[triangles]

Only the first 400kWh is free supercharging. After that there is a $ per minute or $ per kWh charge for using superchargers. A base model 3 assuming you could still get the fed credit is only $27,500. Granted even if you reserved on day 1 you probably can't even get a base model before the tax credit expires. The current model 3 available will be at least $49,000 until well into 2018 since they are only offering the "first production" cars. These "first production" cars require you to get the $9,000 extended range battery and $5000 premium package. I think Elon is poking fun at Henry Ford by making any color other than black an additional $1,000! So Tesla is basically making everyone who waited in line to reserve their "$35,000" car and want one that isn't black pay $50,000 if they want it before early-mid 2018! Not to mention the likelihood that the $7,500 credit will begin phase out and cut in half for cars delivered after June 30th 2018.

 

[Pearl]

I think Elon is poking fun at Henry Ford by making any color other than black an additional $1,000!

Definitely

 

[jmueller065]

Only the first 400kWh is free supercharging. After that there is a $ per minute or $ per kWh charge for using superchargers. A base model 3 assuming you could still get the fed credit is only $27,500. Granted even if you reserved on day 1 you probably can't even get a base model before the tax credit expires. The current model 3 available will be at least $49,000 until well into 2018 since they are only offering the "first production" cars. These "first production" cars require you to get the $9,000 extended range battery and $5000 premium package. I think Elon is poking fun at Henry Ford by making any color other than black an additional $1,000! So Tesla is basically making everyone who waited in line to reserve their "$35,000" car and want one that isn't black pay $50,000 if they want it before early-mid 2018! Not to mention the likelihood that the $7,500 credit will begin phase out and cut in half for cars delivered after June 30th 2018.

And you didn't expect any of this? Just look at the Model S and Model X pricing...

 

[triangles]

I was mostly giving info for those that are curious. I expected the really expensive ones only for the first 3-4 months. Not the 6-8 months they are now saying. I was also surprised that the bigger battery is $9k. I was expecting $5k-$7k for the bigger battery. Other than those two things I pretty much expected the rest.

Edit: I just read that sometime this fall the $5k mandatory premium package will no longer be mandatory.

 

[EVA]

I was mostly giving info for those that are curious. I expected the really expensive ones only for the first 3-4 months. Not the 6-8 months they are now saying. I was also surprised that the bigger battery is $9k. I was expecting $5k-$7k for the bigger battery. Other than those two things I pretty much expected the rest.

The range difference is 220 versus 350. A person would have to do some funky math with the Model S or X for the different battery sizes to see what they are now charging for increased battery size. And then know the battery sizes for the two Model 3's. I just haven't been around all the nitty gritty details.

My point - the $9,000 for a larger battery - not at all surprising. That's almost double the range. I think the money steps in the Model S are at least that large, and the range difference isn't that huge. Also not close to the supercharging rules for the Model 3 - if they made that consistent across all models (what you mentioned was the rules for the Model S and X unless you use a referral code). I remember supercharging for the Model 3 was going to be an option to purchase, not something that came with the car.

My read on the Model 3 - the Bolt sure looks silly now.

 

[triangles]

EVA - It's 310 miles for the long range not 350. So for the base of 220 mi you pay $9K for 90 extra miles or 41% more range. Not even close to double the range unless you're talking "close" as it counts in horse shoes, nuclear bombs, and hand grenades! :lol: Also FYI the model 3 has the same access to the superchargers as models S and X. The first 400kWh is free then rates are loosely based on the cost of electricity in the state the super charger is located. The difference being with a model S or X you can get unlimited free charging with a referral. I think most people not familiar with EVs greatly underestimate the competitive advantage the supercharge network adds.

For someone like me who's been eying the model 3 as a possible next vehicle for the last year and a half or so the $9k for the larger battery is a little surprising. Elon had said he expected the average sale price of the model 3 to be $42k. I don't know if he actually said it or if it was just implied by the average sale price of $42k, that the options would not be marked up as much as the options on the S and X are. Since I never plan to buy one I haven't followed the S and X very closely so I may be off on my numbers for them. Please correct me if I am wrong. IIRC I read somewhere it's $16k to go from a 90kWh to a 100kWh battery. That makes $9k on the 3 seem like a bargain but when you consider $9k is 25.7% of the of the base model 3 cost that perspective makes it seem way over priced. Especially considering the extra capacity cost to Tesla is in the neighborhood of $3k (back of the napkin guestimations and assuming Tesla is honest about their battery costs($145/kWh x 20kWh)) so a 200% markup is a pretty high margin for 90 extra miles. Another reason to be surprised is that I vaguely remember the upgrade cost of a 60kWh model S to a 75kWh battery was only $5k. Again I may be remembering incorrectly here. Since we don't yet know the model 3 battery capacities, given the higher price and range I'm guessing it's gotta be about a 20kWh battery difference. 90mi on 20kWh useable seems about right. I can't fault Tesla for capitalizing on the bigger battery option considering they have over a years worth of production practically pre-sold. I guess it's the price you pay for being an early adopter. It will be interesting to see what happens to the auto industry in the next 5 or so years.

 

[EVA]

Triangles - Thanks for the details. I was going on vague memory. And not being able to actually see the design studio for the Model 3 - so there isn't a good way to see any details. Yeah, it is a nasty mix of culling information from all over the place.

Is it possible the higher range car comes standard with other stuff, and it isn't just a battery upgrade?

And then, yeah Tesla is taking advantage of what the market will bear. Tesla isn't necessarily known for fairly pricing options (the premium sound option is outrageously expensive for what you get). And I certainly fell victim to that. While I was building my car I thought, well shoot, that winter package $700, why not? The tech package, knew I had to have that, the pano roof, leather interior.... by that time the sound system was an easy choice. The only option I didn't buy was the Alcantara leather headliner (tiny pieces when you count the pano roof).

So I would guess Tesla is banking on the same thought process with the Model 3. I'm buying the coolest, best car ever made, why not spend a little more?

 

[triangles]

Is it possible the higher range car comes standard with other stuff, and it isn't just a battery upgrade?

That's what I thought at first but it appears $9k is just for the bigger battery. Looks like the few who can buy one in the next few months must take the $9k bigger battery and $5k premium options package. Literally they only get to choose color and wheels right now. This link has all the details and pricing tesla has made available so far. Not sure why tesla doesn't have this info when you choose model 3 from the main page.

 

[EVA]

Read an interesting article about Tesla two days ago - just after they posted earnings. It seems they are shipping the more expensive car exclusively right now, cash flow. They need to do some book balancing and the smaller battery isn't as profitable. So they are simply selling the more profitable cars until they can ramp up production - reducing the cost to build each car.

Oddly, it makes sense. It seems unfair from the outside.

Normally I distrust just about everything the Wall Street Journal has to say, especially about electric cars and the environment. My son subscribed to it this summer and I just happened on that Tesla article. It connected with this discussion.

Wow - we sure did wander a long ways off the top of this thread. Apologies to the OP.