Car will not start

[triangles]

For not much more than $15K (after tax credit) you can get a new '17 with greater range and a full warranty!

 

[tinilk]

Seriously how can a replacement TCM cost that much?? I suppose if they have to grab a 2018 TCM from the assembly line and do a bunch of circuit board swaps, reprogramming etc. so it'll be compatible with your 2013, that would take a technician some time. But wow, $15k.

I called Ford customer service. Same as with you, I got a call back from a different CSR than my assigned rep. Maybe they do that deliberately to gauge just how pissed off this customer is, before passing off to their boss?

They told me no field service reps have visited my dealer yet. My assigned rep is supposed to call me Monday. Presumably we'll discuss exactly when someone will get out there to look at my car, and reimbursements for gas or car payments. I also want to confirm I won't be on the hook for any of the dealer's incurred expenses.

Last night I was stopped at a light, gazing longingly at my town's 2014 FFE parked at one of the town's free chargers. It's exactly like my car, same color. I fantasize asking them to swap it for my rental car, "just for a few weeks, pleeeease?" They hardly ever drive it anywhere, meanwhile I'm burning all this gas commuting.

 

[Guest]

Seriously how can a replacement TCM cost that much?? I suppose if they have to grab a 2018 TCM from the assembly line and do a bunch of circuit board swaps, reprogramming etc. so it'll be compatible with your 2013, that would take a technician some time. But wow, $15k.

I called Ford customer service. Same as with you, I got a call back from a different CSR than my assigned rep. Maybe they do that deliberately to gauge just how pissed off this customer is, before passing off to their boss?

They told me no field service reps have visited my dealer yet. My assigned rep is supposed to call me Monday. Presumably we'll discuss exactly when someone will get out there to look at my car, and reimbursements for gas or car payments. I also want to confirm I won't be on the hook for any of the dealer's incurred expenses.

Last night I was stopped at a light, gazing longingly at my town's 2014 FFE parked at one of the town's free chargers. It's exactly like my car, same color. I fantasize asking them to swap it for my rental car, "just for a few weeks, pleeeease?" They hardly ever drive it anywhere, meanwhile I'm burning all this gas commuting.

So, who's your rep? Mines Auna, ext 77798. If you dial the number and enter the extensions 7779x with x being any number 1-9 you will get the desk of all the different CSMs for the various parts of the U.S.. Dont worry, none of them actually answer the phone, you get their machine. I think they operate on a call back only system. You leave a message and they will call you back.....as soon as you go in the shower or run up to the store, etc. Its like waiting for the cable guy. LOL. Wait, you probably didnt get Auna as she was on vaca from wednesday til monday. She left the extension 77794 for me to call in case I needed something. I forgot her name. She doesnt answer her phone either so it might as well be nobody. As far as an update on my car, the guy at the dealer said that ford has denied the TCM replacement for now and has given them some other things to check out instead. Yay, more weeks of ********, I think they should just donate the car to the local FD to practice Jaws of life training on. Then they can burn it when theyre done.

 

[tinilk]

Mine's Danielle, x77734. (Which doesn't fit the 7779x scheme, whoa there must be a lot more CSMs than we thought! None of whom answer their phones.)

So now, you have to figure out a non-condescending way to ask Auna: "They confirmed the problem is in the TCM. Ford has declined to replace the TCM. Sooo what's the next step? Logically speaking, randomly replacing other modules that aren't the problem is probably not going to help...?"

 

[Guest]

Mine's Danielle, x77734. (Which doesn't fit the 7779x scheme, whoa there must be a lot more CSMs than we thought! None of whom answer their phones.)

So now, you have to figure out a non-condescending way to ask Auna: "They confirmed the problem is in the TCM. Ford has declined to replace the TCM. Sooo what's the next step? Logically speaking, randomly replacing other modules that aren't the problem is probably not going to help...?"

So I came home from work tonight and had a callback on my machine. The time was 5 minutes after I went to work. Figures. But she left a message. She said that the dealer wants to replace the electric motor but ford wants them to test a bunch of other stuff first. I guess if they replaced the motor and it wasnt the problem, heads would role. So, basically more waiting. What else is new. 11 weeks! Way to go Ford.

 

[Guest]

So yesterday I was supposed to find out if ford was approving the motor replacement. There was a conference call scheduled between the ford field tech and the dealer techs. Ford tech never called the dealer. Ford CSM told me shes off tomorrow and to have a nice weekend. The weeks just keep piling on no matter what.

 

[Guest]

So, an actual update. The owner of the dealership called me. I know him, hes not a stranger. LOL. He said that the conference call between him and all the service guys and the field rep and the Ford dearborn rep happened this morning. They do not want to replace the motor at this time. They said that since there had been no wrench light since the SOBDM was replaced that possibly the car was fixed. Even though they made the dealer techs do a ton of diagnostics afterward and told them the readings were bad news, now they are saying maybe its ok. The tech is going to drive the car back and forth to work for a week to see if he can get it to malfunction. They will be driving it with the ids tool attached to the obd connector to catch whatever happens. I did not think you could do that with the ffe without making the car act crazy. I know that Allstate does not give the option of putting one of those safe driver dongles in the car. I assumed it was because of that. Long story short, if the car is ok for a week I get it back, "fixed". Im waiting for my phone to tell me theres a problem with the car. So, we wait.

 

[tinilk]

I got a call from Ford. (Again, not from my assigned CSM, who has yet to call me, she's been out sick.)

A field service rep went to the dealer and looked at my car. His recommendation was to replace the HV battery. They submitted the claim and are waiting for the OK from Ford.

I really wasn't expecting this. I thought they'd end up replacing the contactors or another computer module somewhere. I guess the "massive short" that they initially diagnosed must have done actual damage to one of the cells in the battery.

So has anyone who had their pack replaced said on here how long it took, from submitting the claim 'til getting their car back?

 

[Guest]

You get a new battery! Some guys have all the luck. :lol: Yeah, my assigned csm has been fairly useless. All they do is call the dealer, get the same info that you get when you call them, and recite it back to you. But all in a very happy smiley way. Oh, and they constantly take days off or are sick. What a racket.

 

[tinilk]

Hope your car actually IS fixed and you get it back in a week! And that they reimburse you for gas & payments.

I'm trying not to get too excited in case they deny the claim, like they did with your motor. My not-CSM said to expect another update call on Friday. Fingers crossed.

I bought this car planning to keep it at least 8-10 years. After going through all this I'm more than a little worried about this happening again after the drivetrain warranty expires. My choices would be A) spend the few months that it's in the shop saving up several thousand dollars to get my car back, B) start researching all about TDCs and SOBDMs, and fly to California to scour junkyards for FFE parts, or C) scrap it and put all the EV parts on ebay for other poor SSN sufferers out there who chose option B, with the caveat "used, not tested, may not work".

 

[Guest]

Update. The car did not make it a week. All was fine last week and over the weekend. I could see the guy racking up the miles on my car every day from the MFM app. I noticed that he drove it to work yesterday and did not drive it home. I was like wtf, he was supposed to drive it til wednesday. So I got the call today that he got a mile out of work yesterday and the wrench light came on so he turned it around. Its the same code as always. The ford field engineer has been called and told the news. The dealer is hoping to hear from him on possibly approving the motor replacement. So, yeah, more waiting. Im sure this will add at least 2 weeks to the ordeal. Yesterday had some pretty heavy rain around here. And it was raining the 1st time it crapped out in December. Maybe humidity helps to bring on the problem.

 

[tinilk]

Sorry it's not fixed. If it's the same code as before, wouldn't that confirm for sure whether the motor is actually the problem?

I was driving in heavy snow when my fatal yellow-wrench-followed-by-SSN happened. I'd seen the yellow wrench come on once before while driving in heavy rain, so water and slush getting thrown up in there definitely causes or exacerbates these wiring connection problems.

The last not-my-CSM who called said to expect another phone update tomorrow. I haven't heard yet whether they approved the battery replacement. Hoping for some good news there.

 

[Guest]

So Im waiting to see what ford is going to do. Apparently, the info that they got from the wrench error with their scan tool attached at the time indicates failure of the battery. The dealership owner called the field engineer for me to see what was up. I may be getting a new battery after all. We should have a decision from ford in the next couple of days. Im not holding my breath though. But if I get a working car back with 100+ miles of range, the whole ordeal would have been worth it. But like I said, Im not getting too hopeful.

 

[Akua]

What is the standard warranty on those batteries? Are they able to put the newer 17' or 18' battery size in?

 

[Guest]

warranty on the battery and related stuff is 8 years 0r 100k. Yes they put the new batteries in the older cars for warranty repair. I dont think they have any old ones left. A couple of guys here have had theirs replaced and have reported getting the new battery with the increased range.

 

[Guest]

Sorry it's not fixed. If it's the same code as before, wouldn't that confirm for sure whether the motor is actually the problem?

I was driving in heavy snow when my fatal yellow-wrench-followed-by-SSN happened. I'd seen the yellow wrench come on once before while driving in heavy rain, so water and slush getting thrown up in there definitely causes or exacerbates these wiring connection problems.

The last not-my-CSM who called said to expect another phone update tomorrow. I haven't heard yet whether they approved the battery replacement. Hoping for some good news there.

Hey, your dealer doesnt happen to be Rodman ford?

 

[tinilk]

No, different dealer. I don't want to name names. After going through all this I just wonder how much diagnosis and repair training Ford offers to EV-certified dealerships. The evidence says nowhere near enough.

So the latest is, NO new battery for me. Aw well. The field engineer was at the dealer Friday to confirm whether to replace the battery or not. His conclusion was the problem is just the HV connector (or the contactors, something like that...guy on the phone didn't know the exact name of the part). So they're replacing that part, takes a week to ship etc., and maybe I get my car back end of next week or the week after.

Carbuff I wonder if your "failure of the battery" error is the same code that's still an active code on my car? In which case it apparently doesn't necessarily mean the battery pack needs replacing. At the end of this I'm certainly going to ask for a printout of all the codes that were initially stored, and which were still active after they performed the recall fixes.

 

[triangles]

After going through all this I just wonder how much diagnosis and repair training Ford offers to EV-certified dealerships. The evidence says nowhere near enough.

I don't believe diagnosis and repair training are the problem here. Ford could probably improve the diagnostic equipment some but I think the main problem is the design of the FFE itself. While it's great when it works, it clearly wasn't designed with troubleshooting in mind. There is no datalogging of states so when an intermittent problem crops up there is no way for a technician to know what happened. The FFE is still a first generation EV. It's EV components have remained virtually unchanged since being introduced in late 2011 so while it maybe not forgivable, these short comings are at least understandable. Hopefully Ford has learned from these design issues of the FFE and future ford EV's won't be as difficult to fix when things go wrong.

 

[tinilk]

After going through all this I just wonder how much diagnosis and repair training Ford offers to EV-certified dealerships. The evidence says nowhere near enough.

I don't believe diagnosis and repair training are the problem here. Ford could probably improve the diagnostic equipment some but I think the main problem is the design of the FFE itself. While it's great when it works, it clearly wasn't designed with troubleshooting in mind. There is no datalogging of states so when an intermittent problem crops up there is no way for a technician to know what happened. The FFE is still a first generation EV. It's EV components have remained virtually unchanged since being introduced in late 2011 so while it maybe not forgivable, these short comings are at least understandable. Hopefully Ford has learned from these design issues of the FFE and future ford EV's won't be as difficult to fix when things go wrong.

I completely agree, it was painfully obvious while they were diagnosing my car how little information was given by the DTCs that the car had stored. I would think each code should point definitively to which module has a problem. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

My comment about lack of training is just referring to the fact that after a few phone calls with Ford's technicians to try to narrow down the issue, the dealer couldn't do anything else. The car would then sit there for weeks waiting for Ford to send out an engineer. Once the engineer looked at it a decision was made right away, which makes me think the dealership techs need more training and familiarity with the car (and the Energi models too, I assume) so they can diagnose these issues without Ford needing to send out a specialist.

 

[Guest]

No, different dealer. I don't want to name names. After going through all this I just wonder how much diagnosis and repair training Ford offers to EV-certified dealerships. The evidence says nowhere near enough.

So the latest is, NO new battery for me. Aw well. The field engineer was at the dealer Friday to confirm whether to replace the battery or not. His conclusion was the problem is just the HV connector (or the contactors, something like that...guy on the phone didn't know the exact name of the part). So they're replacing that part, takes a week to ship etc., and maybe I get my car back end of next week or the week after.

Carbuff I wonder if your "failure of the battery" error is the same code that's still an active code on my car? In which case it apparently doesn't necessarily mean the battery pack needs replacing. At the end of this I'm certainly going to ask for a printout of all the codes that were initially stored, and which were still active after they performed the recall fixes.

I just asked because my daughter works there. Right across the street from the stadium. I think the main dtc that keeps cropping up is the one for hybrid battery isolation circuit.(Gee, how could that indicate a problem with the battery? Duh ) I have the forscan log files that I saved from when the car acted up while I had it. There were many. like 7-10 codes from hvb contactor circuit to lowbeam headlight circuit. I agree that the dealers really are not equipped to diagnose these cars unless its something obvious. I sure hope they dont deny my battery replacement. Its the only thing keeping me from starting the good faith review, aka lemon law procedings. I dont see how they could deny a buyback. Theyve had the car for over 100 days and cant fix it. Its been at the dealership for half the time Ive owned it for one reason or another. Its just a complete clusterf*** at this point. At least they have an idea of what to replace on your car. Hope you get it back soon. Sorry about the no new battery though.