Focus Electric Newbie

[Jbodor]

Hi everyone, I wanted to introduce myself and ask a couple of questions to the group. I just picked up (at the beginning of June) a 2017 Focus Electric with 25K on it, and after a month, I could not be happier with the car. My family has had a CMax Energi that we bought new three years ago and finally decided to get rid of the old ICE we have been driving since 2004.

So far Focus has been great, in the heat of our Texas summer I usually see around 130 miles of range or so on the GOM any time I leave the house. And with my 12-mile round trip drive to work that is more than plenty, we decided just to stick with our 120V outlets in the garage and not get a 240V as we rarely travel more the 30 miles in a day on either car.

I originally had a question about should we keep our vehicles plugged in, especially now that we are working more from home. But after some research on this forum I am gathering that is probably not ideal, so thank you all for your input out there.

Now my question is more focused on two things, first those of us with the 2017 or 2018 models out there with the new battery cells, what are you all experiencing in degradation? Are there anyone out there with 50K or more on their car? I am debating if I should get any extended warranties on either if these vehicles now that they are both getting close to the end of their bumper to bumper warranty expiring.

 

[Heima]

Welcome Jbodor,
Glad you are happy with your 2017 FFE!
I love mine!

Rumors are that keeping an EV topped up is bad. Additionally, incremental recharging has the same affect as deeper recharging. In that supposedly there are a finite number of recharge events. I don't know if this is all true. Or maybe some of it true for some battery chemistries. Still, it probably would not hurt to keep the vehicle in the 20% - 80% range. In other words, drive until you're down to about 20%, and then charge up till you are about 80%.

Lets check the math. 80% - 20% = 60%, 60% of 33.5kW is approximately 20kW. Using L1, I get about 900W per hour. 20000W/900W = approximately 22 hours. So charge up over the weekend.
At an average 4 miles per kW, and 20kW, that is 80 miles. 12 miles per day x 5 days is 60 miles. So drive a little more while you are at work or on the weekends and charge up between Saturday and Sunday.

I am seeing some degradation, but it is so small, that I am considering it measurement error. Though I have not checked lately.
Using Forscan, I read the value of "Hybrid/EV Battery Energy to Empty - Estimated", typically after a charge to 100%.
Right now, the vehicle is at 57% and shows 14.798kW. Doing the math, that is 25.96 kW for 100%. It is an estimate, and probably a non-linear relationship, especially considering the heat (106+ in the garage), but I remember a full charge back in October at 100%, it was 27.95, and when I first took ownership in February 2019, it was 28.007.

If you are concerned that the battery has degraded from 33.5kW to 28kW, I do not believe this to be true. As I think that the vehicle automatically "pads" the operating range of the battery, reducing it by 10% - 15%. Kind of like that 20%-80% built in. Math again, 28kW x 4 miles per kW is 112miles, which is very close to the Ford marketing 115 miles range.

After I had bought my FFE, I discovered that the second ford dealer had CPO'ed the vehicle and added two extended warranties. Considering that Ford did not support the FFE as they should have, and that now going forward with the Mach E, they will be better educated with EVs, an extended warranty (Ford warranty) at a reasonable cost would probably be beneficial, and should you decide to sell the vehicle, increases its resale value.

 

[Heima]

So I just charged all the way to 100% in this heat. The estimated battery capacity is 27.498 kW. If that is the real value, that is not bad degradation. Approximately 500W over a year. 5 kW over 10 years. Not bad. And it could be the heat as well, skewing the results.

 

[Jbodor]

Thank you so much Heima for all of the details and time you spent on your reply. I really appreciate this community for the support. May I enquire how many miles you have on your 2017 FFE? I am lucky enough to have such short and infrequent commutes I last charged in on Friday (4 days ago) and I still have a 67% charge remaining and it is showing 87 miles of range on the GOM (which would calculate to 122 miles of range. Before when I was plugging in over night every day I frequently saw a GOM range when I left of 125 - 130 miles. I am guessing this is because 98% of my driving is around town with speed limits of 35-40 MPH. So I figured there has not really been any measurable degradation, especially considering the FFE does not have Low Rolling Resistant tires on it (yep the dealer that put my FFE up for auction in CA put 3 new tires on the car but they are a crappy discount no-name brand).

I appreciate the reminder that there are a limited amount of recharge cycles each cell can withstand, I had forgotten about that. And so for sure now I am going to only plug in when I reach 20%. On average my family have kept our vehicles for 10+ years (in 2016 we traded in our 2001 Oldsmobile for the 2016 CMax and last month we traded in our 2004 Mazda3 for the 2017 FFE) so my hope is that with proper care the HV batteries on these cars will last us at least until 2027.

 

[Heima]

Right now, the MyFordMobile app says that its 12503 miles.
Let me see if I can find a rather interesting article.

https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/

Its kind of a long article, but the charts for the most part explain battery performance in different temperatures, and battery degradation.
Of note is that for some vehicles, the degradation is fast at the start, and then slows down.

There is also this interactive tool:
https://www.geotab.com/fleet-management-solutions/ev-battery-degradation-tool/
Which if you bring up the FFE, looks pretty good for the 2017, not so bad for the 2014, not as good for the 2015. I think they had a small sample size.

Compare that to the Nissan Leafs, yeah, big difference.

One of the great things about electrics is the cost of maintenance, pretty much nothing. I haven't had to do anything for the car, except the 12v battery, and that was my own being picky. Turns out it really did not need replacement. I guess this Winter I should put on new wipers. (Think I can afford to do that? )

Even though DC fast chargers are popping up everywhere, and J1778 chargers are the norm, a Tesla to J1778 adapter can come in handy. It does for me. (My employer offers free charging for Teslas. Just like some hotels and restaurants do.)
I got mine here:
https://qccharge.com/products/jdapter-stub
Out of stock right now, but I am sure they will be making more real soon. Or if you call to order, they might make one right then.

 

[Jbodor]

So I just wanted to post an update, over the last week or so I did a little test on the current battery capacity in my 2017 FFE. I had planned on going from 100% to 20%, but I did not calculate it correct and I actual arrived home with 16% remaining.

I used the Trip Function and reset it at the beginning of my full charge and in total I got:

• 114 miles Traveled
  Average of 205 Wh/mi
  23.3 KWh used

It also showed 27 miles left on the GOM.

So with that if I did my math correct I think I have about 83% usable battery from the initial 33.5KWh capacity including the buffer which no one seems to know but I guess it is around 20%. If that is the case then in 2.5 years and 26,000 miles probably have about 3% degradation.

 

[Heima]

It think it is better than that.
You travelled 114 miles, and 27 more miles to go, better than the EPA range.
You also consumed 23.3 kW with 16% of the pack capacity remaining.

Some of the math you can do is 114 miles/23300W = (114+27)miles/?W. W=28818
And if 28818W takes you 141 miles, that is 204.38 W/mile. Sound familiar?
Lets say that is being optimistic.

If 23.3kW is (100-16) % of capacity, then capacity is 27738W.
I guess that is being pessimistic

My car is right now showing 26% and 27 miles to go.
It has consumed an average 250 W/mile over 2508 miles. I forgot to reset the trip meter. Several times. :?
So 27 miles is 6750W, and that is 26% of 25961W. Wow, I guess this heat is killing my battery.

BUT, if you look back to my first post in this thread, I said that my pack had a capacity of 25.96kW. What a coincidence. That was calculating from 57% 2 weeks ago. Then in my second post after a full charge, Forscan said battery capacity was 27.5kW.

So with all that said, I believe your pack is more of the optimistic value. Maybe even better. So no worries.

 

[Heima]

Just for fun, I charged the pack all the way to 100%, and Forscan showed 27.46kW, I then drove a couple miles and charged up again. Now it shows 28.124kW. Go figure.

 

[Jbodor]

Wow thank you for all of the details! You have been extremely helpful.So far I can say I have been loving the efficiency of this car.

 

[subcool2020]

man guys, where did you learn to get all these info?

 

[Heima]

Google, and time, are your friends.