generator as range extender

[xirtus]

can the focus run while plugged in? I don't mean to the wall but perhaps a range extender could be possible. In the spirit of the volt, I am thinking about getting a small generator and level2 charger and I wanted to know if anyone has done something like this already.

In general has anyone found a solution to the contestable poor range of the Focus Electric? I love my car but it's unnerving I was pitched "close to 100 miles" when I've never seen much more than 60 and in honesty thats downhill and flat, in serious driving I don't see half of that. When I drive home over the 17, our aggressively steep mountainous and consistently curvy 2 lane highway from Santa Cruz to Silicon Valley I can barely make it. I am praying every time to get 30 miles out of it, unless I finesse every butterfly out of the thing and use the force excessively to supplement my vehicles midichlorian count with my own to battle each and ever of the countless uphill battles I face day to day.

 

[jmueller065]

No: If its plugged in it will yell at you to unplug when you attempt to start it.

What will it do if its already "running" and you plug it in? I don't know, never tried that.

 

[campfamily]

can the focus run while plugged in? I don't mean to the wall but perhaps a range extender could be possible. In the spirit of the volt, I am thinking about getting a small generator and level2 charger and I wanted to know if anyone has done something like this already.

In general has anyone found a solution to the contestable poor range of the Focus Electric? I love my car but it's unnerving I was pitched "close to 100 miles" when I've never seen much more than 60 and in honesty thats downhill and flat, in serious driving I don't see half of that. When I drive home over the 17, our aggressively steep mountainous and consistently curvy 2 lane highway from Santa Cruz to Silicon Valley I can barely make it. I am praying every time to get 30 miles out of it, unless I finesse every butterfly out of the thing and use the force excessively to supplement my vehicles midichlorian count with my own to battle each and ever of the countless uphill battles I face day to day.

Our cars will not run if you try to start it while plugged in. I tried this while I was plugged into the wall, and the car gave me a warning and it wouldn't give me the "ready to drive" symbol. What I don't know is what would happen if you plugged in while the car was already running; would it quit running? Sounds like an experiment to try at home.

Also, most generators provide 110V power, so you wouldn't be able to run a Level 2 charger. And, even if you could, the generator required to provide that amount of power likely wouldn't fit in the car. I have a Honda generator (EU2000) that is rated for 2kW 110V, and it weighs about 55 pounds.

Final thought....our cars take about 2.5 hours to charge fully using a Level 2 charger. Assuming you could get a Level 2 charge while driving, would the charge rate keep up with the discharge rate?

Keith

 

[michael]

The easiest way to accomplish what you are asking about is with what's called a "pusher trailer". This is a small trailer with a gas engine that helps the car along, adds energy simply by regeneration. When you don't need it, leave it at home.

I personally know a guy who regularly drives an EV between Utah and Los Angeles with this approach. I've driven his car, it works pretty well. I believe he can maintain 50-60 MPH indefinitely with an old VW engine.

Google it. Here's just one example

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x231293

Honda makes 18 HP small engines, as one example. I'm pretty sure that is plenty for anything short of crossing the Rockies Another options might be to adapt the rear half of a wrecked motorcycle as a fifth wheel pusher.

While it is possible to modify the electrical system to add energy into the battery while driving, a pusher trailer requires no modification to the car other than mounting a trailer hitch.

 

[xirtus]

While the car is running he puts energy in? what kind of car does he have not a focus I assume? thats the question how to get energy in to the bank while driving. Thanks for the information on trailer range extenders, its basically the idea but I want smaller and maybe on my roof or something instead of on a whole other trailer. Also above good question about discharge I would like to know more about that as well.
China makes really small 240 generators, assuming I can find a quality one with good reviews from a reliable source which there are more an more of I think its possible to avoid the trailer. I believe I've seen already for sale something like it online I'm trying to refind the link on aliexpress for a "ev range extender" with a remarkably small generator and level 2 charger actually built in but I would probably use my own juicebox. The trailer would be too big for me but I believe that is the old way and proof of purpose so thanks for the link

So we need to try to plug it in after the car is on. OR get the car to stop making arbitrary rules. Can the settings be altered? can changes be made to the OS / has anyone hacked the focus computers system software?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Too-...61,searchweb201560_8,searchweb1451318400_6151

 

[michael]

This guy happens to drive a Rav 4 EV, but it works identically with any EV. The pusher moves the car along, it's just like coasting down a hill. Regeneration automatically puts the excess energy back into the battery.

But even if it didn't (i.e., if the engine size weren't enough to move you as fast as you want to go) that would still help by reducing the energy needed from the battery. But to answer your question...yes, regeneration automatically charges the battery when you lift throttle.

Your idea of electrically charging the battery can be made to work, of course, but the pusher approach requires essentially no mods to the car.

I also came across this

http://www.star-engines.com/#home

I don't know if it's actually available, and the version shown has a European EV connector, but it might give you an idea....

But in all honesty....if you frequently need extended range, a Volt or BMW I3 with extender is the best and easiest way to go.

 

[triangles]

In general has anyone found a solution to the contestable poor range of the Focus Electric?

xirtus, in theory a it can be done. And I'm sure someone smarter with electrical stuff than me could probably explain it better. You would have to add an auxiliary charger to the car similar to what sefs did. the generator would power this auxiliary charger and then it would feed that power into the battery bus which would power the wheels and any excess would go into the battery. I'm assuming if the car wanted more juice that the Auxiliary charger can supply it, the slack would be taken up by the battery. Problems would likely arise with regen and fry your auxiliary charger. I'd consult with an electrical engineer but I think if you just tried to feed a high voltage DC generator you'd have to figure out how to make it deal with regen and not to mention figuring out how to have it cut off before you overcharged your battery. All of this involves a lot of EXPENSIVE custom stuff with no guarentee that it would actually work. This would be a deterrent for most people.

The alternative is a mechanical pusher trailer. Recycling the drivetrain from a gas car and making a trailer out of it. The CTO of tesla made a few of these back in his college days. His first attempt used an old VW beetle and his final version used the front clip from a vw golf to push his porsche he had converted to electric. I have often toyed with the idea of doing something similar. I even came up with plans and devised how to implement one. I would question the safety of such a device not to mention the legalities of it. Also I'm pretty sure it would void the warranty since the FFE is not rated to tow anything.

Please keep us posted if you pursue either of these. I can't be the only one who would be interested to hear about it.

 

[breeves002]

While the answer is yes and many people before me answered pretty well, I wanted to add a few things.

It's very expensive to add a range extender. Buy a Fusion Energi or Volt or something else.

You need a two phase power generator so it can do two 120v out of phase lines for a L2 EVSE. These are quite expensive. Like triangles said, you'd have to add an actual charger to the car. If you want to be able to charge it as fast as you're using it, the only answer would be to utilize a DC fast charger type setup. You can pull a lot of current from that motor. I could be wrong about this but just thinking about it seems like the only logical answer. If you can actually get 27.5a or more into the battery through a L2 EVSE (the one sefs put in is only 3.3kW or 13.75a@240v) then you would definitely have some extra range. I really don't think you could run indefinitely though. Maybe at the right speed in the right conditions.

Something like this... http://www.lowes.com/pd_204373-348-30207_0__?productId=3020240&cm_mmc=SCE_PLA_ONLY-_-OutdoorPowerEquipment-_-SosGenerators-_-3020240:Briggs_&_Stratton&CAWELAID=1024199038&kpid=3020240&CAGPSPN=pla&k_clickID=a3367ff7-34cd-4ed5-b5b3-2632f5bc271f

Or this bad boy: http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eb10000
^You could say your car is powered by a Honda! :lol:

 

[Tom French]

can the focus run while plugged in? I don't mean to the wall but perhaps a range extender could be possible. In the spirit of the volt, I am thinking about getting a small generator and level2 charger and I wanted to know if anyone has done something like this already.

In general has anyone found a solution to the contestable poor range of the Focus Electric? I love my car but it's unnerving I was pitched "close to 100 miles" when I've never seen much more than 60 and in honesty thats downhill and flat, in serious driving I don't see half of that. When I drive home over the 17, our aggressively steep mountainous and consistently curvy 2 lane highway from Santa Cruz to Silicon Valley I can barely make it. I am praying every time to get 30 miles out of it, unless I finesse every butterfly out of the thing and use the force excessively to supplement my vehicles midichlorian count with my own to battle each and ever of the countless uphill battles I face day to day.

Are you setting the gear shifter to "L"

I always run in "L" gear, when foot oof throttle, it return charges, twice the juice, or so better then "D" gear.

You will notice a slight difference in breaking when it is in "L", as it tends to be automatically applying a bit of brake.

 

[Rogerschro]

One question I would have is what about heat generation? Wouldn't there be some concern about the amount of heat buildup in the batteries and in the electrical components, lines etc? I'm not sure the FFE would handle the extra load of charging and discharging at the same time, or pulling that level of energy through the system. Maybe I am over thinking it?

 

[Windydrew]

I think I'm going to try this. I have a 3kw custom charger that I got for another project and it's completely programmable. They are also stackable so I could get 6kw and upgrade the generator if I find 3kw is too little. I'm going to connect the charger in the rear and use an outdoor outlet next to the hitch and mount the gen on the hitch carrier I have. I'll bolt it down to prevent someone from easily walking away with it. Then I'll just make a cord to go from the gen to the outlet. I think it should work and already have everything to do it. I just need the setting to charge the batteries at. Any info would be great. I'll probably do my own topic once I get things figured out. I can't think of a reason why it won't work. Later down the road I'll get a California generator that's low emissions and fuel injected but for now I'll run my pull start 5kw 240v gen.

 

[triangles]

Good luck. I'm curious how you would deal with regen. wouldn't the power from regen braking harm your charger?

 

[cutler03gt]

Good luck. I'm curious how you would deal with regen. wouldn't the power from regen braking harm your charger?

You can't drive the car while it's plugged in, so therefore you can't charge while driving. I'm guessing you'd have to pull over and plug it in for a while to charge, like it was a charging station, vs an actual range extender.

 

[Pearl]

A portable Charge Station.

Toss this in the trunk, it only weighs 183 pounds.

https://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gas-engine-generators/8750-peak7000-running-watts-13-hp-420cc-generator-carb-with-gfci-outlet-protection-63088.html

Plug in your 30A EVSE (NEMA 14-30), and you can add 20+ miles/hour wherever you want.
Don't forget to bring a ground rod too, as this generator requires Grounding

The Generator must be properly grounded before use. Have the unit grounded
by a qualified electrician if you are not qualified to do so.
To ground the Generator, connect a #6 AWG grounding wire (not included) from the
Grounding Terminal on the Control Panel to a grounding rod (not included) that has been
driven at least 24 inches deep into the earth. The grounding rod must be an earth-driven
copper or brass rod (electrode) which can adequately ground the Generator.

 

[EVA]

HA Pearl that is too funny. Not only does it weigh a ton, and probably requires a ground to work, it is about as noisy as you could ever get. Those cheap high power generators are so loud.

Grounding is an issue. Generators are not grounded at all. If the charging station tests the ground circuit, it will never work. I'm not sure what happens with J1172 or Ford. I can tell you this would never work with Tesla - that charging system tests grounding and voltage constantly. I have a really good 120V gas generator, I tried it with my Tesla - it never charged the car. The electronics said no way at any amperage.

 

[campfamily]

HA Pearl that is too funny. Not only does it weigh a ton, and probably requires a ground to work, it is about as noisy as you could ever get. Those cheap high power generators are so loud.

Grounding is an issue. Generators are not grounded at all. If the charging station tests the ground circuit, it will never work. I'm not sure what happens with J1172 or Ford. I can tell you this would never work with Tesla - that charging system tests grounding and voltage constantly. I have a really good 120V gas generator, I tried it with my Tesla - it never charged the car. The electronics said no way at any amperage.

I tried charging my FFE with my Honda EU2000 portable generator (110V), worked just fine. But, would have used up two tanks of fuel to completely re-charge the car, so not real efficient.

 

[Windydrew]

You guys obviously missed that I have my own charger that I'll be installing on the battery. It is a universal lithium cv/cc 3kw charger that doesn't require ground and it's stackable so I could do 6kw for another $750.
Regen won't hurt it because it's all set to a max voltage, it will just drop the current down during regen into maintain the max voltage. It'll be pull start for now but I'll add remote start and kill later after proof of concept

 

[EVA]

You guys obviously missed that I have my own charger that I'll be installing on the battery. It is a universal lithium cv/cc 3kw charger that doesn't require ground and it's stackable so I could do 6kw for another $750.
Regen won't hurt it because it's all set to a max voltage, it will just drop the current down during regen into maintain the max voltage. It'll be pull start for now but I'll add remote start and kill later after proof of concept

Sorry, I don't understand, "universal lithium cv/cc 3kw". It is a gasoline powered generator?

I mean I guess you can do this. It sort of defeats the whole purpose of driving an EV. You're probably generating way more pollution with that small generator than if you just drove an ICE car.

I think you also missed the point that there is an interlock with the car, when it is plugged in, it can't move. Unless you are planning on some kind of way up stream internal connection to the battery, you will have to be stationary while the car charges. The person that did the high amperage charging system can't even drive that car while it is plugged into his alternate system.

Seems like what you are proposing is nothing like the BMW i3 solution. That is a super efficient, pollution controlled generator in the REX. Really quiet and manages the couple of gallons of gasoline in the tank.

 

[fbitz777]

And the i3 range extender probably generates more than 6 Kw!

A 6 kw generator would only allow to move 25 miles in best case in one hour and would use about 1 gallon of gas.

 

[Windydrew]

If I was to do this, I would tie the extra battery charger directly into the battery (with a fuse inline) and it would regulate the voltage to max voltage and not any over that. And they can be paralleled so I could run 18kw with 6 of them powered from a bigger generator and maybe a small motorcycle engine or something. Either way, this would be out in a trailer to give me unlimited range on command and then unhook when not needed and act as my backup home/camper power source. That's the idea anyways