Is the heater/defroster a range killer?

[danholl]

There has been a problem reported - including my Focus EV - where the budget mileage dropped an unreasonable amount as the weather got cold - I was down to 40 miles on a full charge temps around 40F. Going to the dealer and having the 3 main computers reprogrammed per Technical Service Bulletin 12-8-20 restored the predicted miles to a reasonable mileage.

 

[Fluke]

-20 celcius here, my indicated range has been reduced by 60%. I park my car in a heated garage (+5 C.) and pre-heat the car on-plug for 5 minutes before leaving for work. At work, the car is kept on-plug, but parked outside. Cold plus ice radials are range killers. My commute is short, but I did not expect this big of a hit. Otherwise the car has been great in the snow and on the ice. (Once the Blizzaks were put on.)

Robin Sipe

Robin,
That's a pretty big percentage-wise hit to the range, what was the base range you are comparing to, or what is the actual predicted miles? I believe you are located in BC, Canada - what kind of cabin heating and/or defrosting were you using?

 

[j79guy]

Fluke: Northern British Columbia. -23C here this morning. I don't scrimp on the heat/comfort, but do try to use it wisely. With a fresh charge in the morning, my in-dash display is indicating a useable range of 60Km total. I have no reason to doubt this, as when I drive approximately 30km, I have half a "battery" left indicated. The driver's seat heater is set at "1", and the heating system set on auto, 19C. I keep the car in a heated garage @ +5C, and on plug. I pre-warm the car for 5 min while on-plug, before driving. It appears that it is the heater that kills the range, more than anything else. I do not use the window defrosters. Certainly the Blizzak WS-70 ice radials don't help, and the useable indicated range dropped from 64km to 60km just from the tire swap. My commute is only 9km, so this isn't an issue. I'm just reporting it as I see it. Best range I ever saw on the display was 141km, back in last August when the car was fresh off the dealer's lot, and temperature was +25C, which seems about average from what I hear from other FFE owners.

Robin Sipe.

 

[Fluke]

Robin,
Thanks for replying - great info. I wanted to know because we do occasionally get some real winter weather here in Kansas. My normal commute is only 26 miles round trip, but I have a regular trip that I take once or twice a week that is about 55 miles. Obviously I prefer to not do a mid-trip charge in order to accomplish it, but at least there are several 220V chargers along the way. I typically will add layers of clothes and forego the heating to get more range, but defrosting is not optional when it starts to fog or ice up...

 

[Econenviro]

Fluke: Northern British Columbia. -23C here this morning. I don't scrimp on the heat/comfort, but do try to use it wisely. With a fresh charge in the morning, my in-dash display is indicating a useable range of 60Km total. I have no reason to doubt this, as when I drive approximately 30km, I have half a "battery" left indicated. The driver's seat heater is set at "1", and the heating system set on auto, 19C. I keep the car in a heated garage @ +5C, and on plug. I pre-warm the car for 5 min while on-plug, before driving. It appears that it is the heater that kills the range, more than anything else. Robin Sipe.

You are correct about the heater. I wonder why you set the seat heater to 1? Even at 5, it uses hardly any power.

 

[dwf123]

You are correct about the heater. I wonder why you set the seat heater to 1? Even at 5, it uses hardly any power.

Because it will smoke your arse....

Even thought the heater is a range killer, it is the best car heater I have had in a vehicle. I wondered why Ford only gives us 5 minutes of preconditioning and I have discovered the heater almost instantly heats up. I set mine at 66 degrees with the seat heater on 1 and I am very comfortable. I have also noticed the car is very tight. On other cars you could feel cold air coming in through the door latch or around the electric window switch. This one appears very tight and I often turn the heater off and just use the seat heaters, which in fact use very little electricity....

My area is RI and not that cold. Average temps right now in low 30s in the am and high 40s for the daytime. My range has been cut from 4 miles per kWH to 3. A 25% reduction. For my usage it isn't a deal breaker. I am still getting 50-60 miles of battery capacity.

The heater is a good response to all the early complaints on the Leaf. Ford has given us a very usable vehicle even in the worst conditions like our friend from BC. (By the way j79guy, -23C is friggin cold! God bless you!)

 

[Gatorman82]

I live in Maryland, just north of Baltimore. In the summer, running without A/C on, I was seeing 80-90 miles on a charge. Now, with the temperatures in the 40s and 50s (occasionally in the 30s), I'm getting 55-60 miles per charge. I run the heater continually. If I turn it off, the range immediately jumps up about 15-20%.

 

[Yoyogee]

Has anyone else noticed that the windshield gets fogged up rather easily? (Requiring the use of the defroster). I think that this is because the cabin is so air tight. It's not a big deal but I find that I need to blast the defroster from time to time to deal with the fogging (Killing my butterflies). I wish that there was a simple "defrost vent" setting that didn't engage the A/C, fans and negatively effect the range.

I also agree that the seat warmers are GREAT and with the FFE's nearly draft-less interior, it's often all I need after preconditioning in the morning. (In the SF bay area it's damp but never really under 40 degrees in winter).

-Rob G.

 

[ShilaCypress]

Nice topics. Thanks for shearing................

 

[mountaineer]

My 2013 FFE's indicated range is computed from my past 3 Ts (Technique, Terrain, and Temperature) based on the previous 20 charging sessions (fewer if some variable is changing rapidly). If I used much cabin heat, or Max Defrost (which turns on a/c and cabin heat and fan, all at max), the car would quickly learn to knock 20+ miles off my predicted range.

However, on a ~25˚F day in the driveway here at 7100' in the Colorado Rockies, I just made some observations using the Accessories option in the MyView display (I'll try next to post as a new topic how I set up that screen):

- Fan, from lowest to highest speed. uses from <0.1 to 0.3 kW of "Other" load.
- Max Defrost uses 2.1 kW, so an hour of that uses up about 11% of a full nominal charge.
- Low fan plus 65˚F Auto cabin heat varies between ~0 and 1.0 kW as cabin heater cycles on off, but at 60˚F, <0.1 kW.
- Low fan at LO temperature setting, which seems to me ≤59˚F, uses <<0.1 kW (and zero indicated power for Climate, i.e. cabin heater is off).
- Setting to low fan and LO temperature, vs 65˚F Auto, immediately raised my predicted range by 9 miles.

Front-seat heaters reportedly draw up to 0.5 kW at max "5" setting (too hot for most people—I like 1–2), but apparently are powered by the 12VDC accessory battery. Perhaps someone knows how much and how often and by what algorithm this is recharged by the DC-DC converter from the main traction battery, but in the short run the seat heaters seem not to show up as a traction load that affects range. However, the a/c and cabin heater are high-voltage and hence directly reduce range.

So for max winter range, I suggest preheating cabin with Remote Start set to max 15-minute duration, and repeated once if necessary, while the car is still plugged in, then defrosting with bottom-row (not Max) defrost button at LO temp (outside air) and min fanspeed.

If your side windows fog up or frost over, the owner's manual has a nice tip: press floor-vent and panel-vent air distribution buttons in bottom row of center panel, select a/c, adjust temp control for comfort, set fan to max, and direct outer instrument-panel vents toward side windows while closing vents in middle of panel.

The main winter range-saver, given good driving technique, is to minimize use of the resistive cabin heater by relying instead on seat heaters and clothing. That is, set cabin temp to LO (≤59˚F) if you can, otherwise as low as comfortable. (You will lose significant range if you set to a normal indoor house temperature rather than wearing winter clothing!) Defrost using the bottom-row defrost-and-person button, which is the "vent" setting other users have wanted, i.e. it admits outside air. Then the next need, as a much lower priority, is to use the lowest fanspeed consistent with avoiding windshield/window fogging. If you set fanspeed manually or on the center touchscreen, it will retain that fanspeed setting even if you turn ordinary defrost off and on (not if you Max Defrost, which locks fanspeed to max while activated) or if you turn the car off and on, but it will lose the fanspeed setting if you turn the whole Climate panel off and on.

 

[Don A]

I am considering buying a small 150W heater that plugs into the 12V power point so I don't have to use the heater. In this cold snap I am having trouble doing my 90km commute on a single charge. Yesterday I had to stop at a Ford dealer en route to charge up for half an hour.

 

[mountaineer]

A 150W heater will just fit inside the 180W fuse limit of both 12V power points combined. However, that electricity (like heated-seat electricity) will come out of the 12V battery, which I think will be recharged from the traction battery if the 12V battery--which runs all the electronics, controls, and other vital functions--gets depleted enough to risk shutting off the car. I haven't been able to find out the DC-DC converter algorithm, so I don't understand exactly what triggers that recharge and when it happens on the road rather than while recharging, but in any event, your plug-in heater's addition to your range will be trivial: you have ~19 kWh of useful charge in the 23-kWh high-voltage traction battery, so drawing 150 W to run cabin heating equivalent to your proposed plug-in heater for, say, an hour would use only 0.15/19 = 0.8% of your range—not worth buying the extra heater for. (Even if you can find one that small, too, it creates an unnecessary cord tangle, potential fire risk if paper gets near it, etc.)

My advice would be to preheat the car using MyFordMobile app's Charge Settings (set your GO Time and temperature target) while plugged into 240V charger, then use the heated seat(s). This works fine for me high in the Colorado Rockies where it was –24C the other morning. Indeed, now that my 2013 FFE, after ~500 miles, has learned my Technique, Temperature, and Terrain conditions, it often displays 75 miles' predicted range in the morning and has even gone as high as 79 miles despite our mountain midwinter...because it knows I'll leave the cabin temperature on LO (≤59F) and hence leave the cabin heater off. If I switch the cabin heater on, even at 60F, the predicted range immediately drops 10–20 miles; if I switch it back off, the predicted range returns immediately to its original value.

 

[Don A]

This morning it was -19C in Oakville, Ontario. I was working the night shift at the Oakville Assembly Complex (Ford Edge, Ford Flex, Lincoln MKX, Lincoln MKT). There are no facilities installed here yet for EV charging.

So the car was not preconditioned for my trip home. I left the climate control off until I had to defog the windshield. I also had the cabin temperture set to LO, when I turned the CC on by hitting the fan slower button and then the defrost button (not max defrost), MyView showed the heater pulling power, right up to 5kW!! LO setting does not lock out the heater!!

Myfordmobile says I used 8kWh to get to work, with economy of 201 Wh/km. That was with the car fully charged, preconditioned and some use of the heater.

The day before, my trip home used 8kWh, no preconditioning, but it wasn't quite as cold. I stopped at a Ford dealership en route to grab some juice.

My 41km drive home was not comfortable, I had the seat heater on 5, so my body was warm, but my feet and hands (gloves on) got cold. I was in heavy stop and go traffic for the trip into Toronto. I was going to try to make it home with out stopping again.

The cold weather must really sap the range because I didn't make it!! :x Ran out of juice 2km from home. Walked the rest of the way, called CAA and jumped in the Ford Escape Hybrid to meet the tow truck at the car.

Cold again tonight, drove the FEH to work today.

The solution for me will be to find a way to charge at work.

 

[Dreaming-in-Focus]

Hi Don, sorry for your bad experience - sounds like you may be one of the first to run the car down to zero.. A cold night is not the best time to encounter that! My most anxious trip was returning from O'Hare airport one cold evening a few weeks ago. I was one mile from the airport to drop off some friends and the car indicated "return home now".. By the time I dropped everyone off, the car indicated negative 2 miles of range to target. Not good. In desperation, I hit the navigation button and chose "Eco route". This indicated that I could make it home with a few miles to spare even though it brought me along the most hair-brained trip I have ever seen. Trusting the eco-route ended up being very smart, lots of braking re-gen and lower speed driving. Negative 2 miles turned into a positive 7 by the time we arrived home! Your driving efficiency seems pretty good already, but on the off chance, try your eco-route to squeeze out a few extra km!

 

[Don A]

I tried the 150W heater. It was ineffective at defogging the windshield, it just doesn't move enough air.

 

[T-dot]

... "However, that electricity (like heated-seat electricity) will come out of the 12V battery, which I think will be recharged from the traction battery if the 12V battery--which runs all the electronics, controls, and other vital functions--gets depleted enough to risk shutting off the car. I haven't been able to find out the DC-DC converter algorithm, so I don't understand exactly what triggers that recharge and when it happens on the road"

The conventional 12V lead acid battery, which operates all the low voltage accessories (headlights, cooling fan, etc.) and actually starts up the vehicle at key-on (opens and closes the high voltage relay contactors) is charge-maintained and regulated to around 13.5V (like in a conventional car) with power from the high voltage battery through the DC-DC converter. As the accessory loads increase, the current from the high voltage battery to the low voltage battery increases to maintain the voltage to the ideal level.

Of course, the process of conversion is not 100% efficient, so as an example consuming 150 watts at the 12V level may require perhaps 200 watts from the high voltage battery (assuming 75% efficiency), with 50 watts lost as heat in the DC-DC converter (those numbers are just examples - I have no idea the actual efficiency of the DC-DC converter).

Anyway the total power consumed by the accessories at the 12V level when the vehicle is at rest is probably on the order of 500 watts on the low side with just the basics, to maybe as much as 2500 watts with everything on (headlights, AC/heater, radio, seat warmer/coolers, etc.). Turning off everything possible can add miles of range.

I am a little disappointed that there is no way to shut off that 5000 watt high voltage heater - I thought selecting LO on the temperature control would do that.

 

[T-dot]

... "The solution for me will be to find a way to charge at work."

Most Ford locations are supposed to be getting EV charging stations installed. Would suggest you talk with the Facility / Building Manager about that, and see if they can run an extension cord to your car to use the 120V charger in the interim.