My 23 KW battery is being replaced

[Charliedog]

My 2013 Focus Electric with 34000 miles on it is having its 23 KW battery replaced due to an internal coolant leak in one of the packs. As of this past Friday my new 33.5 KW battery was in transit to my dealer. It is going to be a new adventure to have almost 50 percent more capacity and range. It is my understanding that the replacement battery will have full warranty which will extend the life of my 2013 Focus Electric to a ripe old age for an EV. Thank goodness that the warranty covers this as it would have surely been an early grave if I had to pay for the new battery at over $23,000. I will post an update when I get my car back.

 

[davideos]

Congrats. I had my 2012 battery replaced just over a year ago. Make sure they don't forget to put the coolant back in...my dealer forgot that step. They also forgot to ensure all the high voltage connections were nice and snug. almost a year following the battery replacement I got the stop safely now again but turned out to be the HV connection near the passenger side rear wheel well.

 

[Charliedog]

Finally got my car back last Thursday. Had to wait for the battery to come from the manufacturer. Range has greatly improved over old 23 KW battery. I am now getting between 115 and 120 mile range without using Air or Heat.

 

[Charliedog]

After about a week I can comfortably say I am getting 130 Mile Plus range on a full charge.

 

[tinilk]

Charliedog that's great to hear! My 2014 is also at the dealership waiting for a replacement battery pack which should arrive next week. They only approved having it replaced after the 5th time that it was towed to the dealer over the past 16 months. I've posted most of the history in Carbuff's thread since he was going through a similar ordeal during the whole of last year: http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4200&start=200

I don't even know whether a coolant leak is to blame in my case. I only ever saw SSN errors (which always left the car inoperable) after driving in rain, so I was sure the problem was water getting into the battery through the lower driver's side HV battery connection. However the diagnosis which finally resulted in the OK for a replacement from Ford, was that they noticed a large drop in voltage output from the battery after it was warmed up from driving it for awhile. I assume the conclusion was that several cells must be damaged, but they haven't said anything about what may have been the cause.

 

[krox]

What is the available capacity Ford Focus Electric 2017? Where is it released and who is the developer of the modules?

 

[James]

I have a 2012 FFE that is currently at the dealer for a warranty HV battery replacement. The dealer has confirmed that I am to get a re-manufactured battery and not a new one (part number CM5Z 10B759 TARM). I'm really interested to know if you received a new battery or a used one?

 

[tinilk]

James, I got my 2014 back on May 24th with the replacement battery. I received a 23 kWh pack, NOT a new 33.5 kWh one. At no time did the manager at the dealership mention the size of the replacement pack. I didn't ask either, because I haven't heard of *anyone's* replacement pack being the smaller original capacity. Everyone I've heard of up until now has received the bigger pack with a 50% range bump.

It sounds like you and I are unlucky owners #1 and #2 to receive a refurbished 23 kWh pack, or I suspect maybe my "new" pack has been sitting around since the production run for 2016 cars -- Forscan indicates an estimated battery pack age of 33 months (!) and approximately 18.5 kWh capacity at 100% SOC. I was expecting 19.0 - 19.5 kWh so it does seem my "new" pack may have lost some capacity since manufacture.

I assume Ford has decided they've used up too much of the 33.5 kWh inventory with pack replacements so we owners with 2016s or older get the short end of the stick going forward. Last year they did give me an Extracare extended warranty, as partial compensation for not having my car for 9 months while it sat at the dealer awaiting suggestions from Ford's engineers of what else to test. I would have preferred the extra range, or maybe a refund of those 9 months of car payments. I should still send a whiney letter and see if Ford Corporate will throw me a bone. Any size bone would be welcome after this fiasco!

 

[jmueller065]

Note that they don't make the FFE anymore and it is likely don't make the batteries anymore either. Thus any replacements going forward would have to be refurbished.

The lucky ones to get the larger pack happened to need a replacement while the FFE was still in production (or shortly thereafter when new packs were still available).

 

[James]

This is certainly not good news - this should make other owners (especially of newer cars) very, very worried. This says to me that Ford is no longer manufacturing new packs. What will happen to the 2018 cars when it is 2026 and "newest" replacement packs available are AT LEAST 8 years old?? Will Ford even provide warranty support a few years down the road, or will they just decide to start buying cars back when things go wrong. This has to make you wonder....

Although I can see the theory that "refurbished" packs are really new old stock, the fact that they have been using new 33.5 KW pack up until now seem to suggest that this there were no 23 KW packs sitting around in a warehouse until very, very recently. Lithium Ion batteries also don't like to sit unused, and if left without periodic charge would likely go bad in short order. I have a feeling that Ford is building an inventory of USED packs that are testing within "acceptable" specifications - either from salvage vehicles or from other warranty replacements (there's two packs per car, and at least one pack from each warranty replacement is probably still 'good').

Although I've really enjoyed owning my car up until now, every contact I've had with Ford has left me with the impression that they view this car as pain-in-the-butt compliance necessity. Too bad - I feel this attitude has been a missed opportunity to really learn from the cars and the owners.

In any case, this doesn't seem as a reasonable solution to me - one group of owners end up with a car that has a new lease on life, while others are left worrying about another failure just past the warranty expiry. I'd honestly wish that they would have offered to buy back the car......

My dealer has asked me to provide "examples" of other cars that have had a new battery instead of a refurbished. I really appreciate any information that others would be willing to share, 'cause I really love to be able to give them a bunch....

 

[davideos]

When I got my new 33.5KWh battery, it was the 2nd time I had a battery pulled from the car. The first time, the battery was "repaired" and put back in. I suspect that the determination to replace the battery depends on the issue.

I heard that a car manufacturer has to support a product for 10 years. Which I think is one reason the EV1 was scrapped and even the Chrysler Turbine car. Not exactly sure; just what I suspect. I'm not concerned about a replacement battery being available, but rather, a replacement battery being affordable. I suspect that by the time a replacement battery is needed, I'll either be done with the car (16 years old) or there will be someone or company around who can rebuild it.

 

[James]

After 3 and half weeks of unanswered phone calls, five-word email responses and, no loaner car I got my car back with a refurbished 23kw battery pack. The experience with the dealer has been absolutely the worst I've ever experienced.

I tried changed it for the first time on the weekend and got up in the morning to a battery that won't charge past 76%, a coolant pump cycling on and office every minute or so, an no coolant in the coolant tank. So back to the dealer. Great.

The dealer is trying to tell me that there "was just an air bubble", which I know isn't true because there wasn't even enough coolant in the system to run the pump. I checked the work order for the battery replacement and notice there is no mention of a new coolant filter and coolant flush after the "new" battery was installed.

The dealer is refusing to do anything but top up the coolant. Just wondering if anyone might have a copy of the service manual to screen shot so I can show it to the dealer? I've just about had it with this whole situation.

 

[Heima]

James,
I can't upload the service procedures, but if you pm an email address, I will send them there.
And yes, the procedures state:

Installation

1. NOTICE: If the battery is being replaced, the coolant filter must replaced or component damage
will occur.
To install, reverse the removal procedure.
Refer to: Cooling System Filling and Bleeding (303-03 Electric Powertrain Cooling, General Procedures).
2. If the battery is being replaced install a new coolant filter.
Refer to: Coolant Filter (303-03 Electric Powertrain Cooling, Removal and Installation).

 

[davideos]

That's what they did to me....they forgot the coolant. I can't even imagine how they can forget that. Anyway, you were lucky to get to 76% charge...mine wouldn't make it nearly that far before it stopped with a charge fault. I was using an L2 charger. I suppose if you used L1, then it might be able to dissipate the heat a little more easily.

 

[thanhdaica1985]

I want to confirm I also will get a refurbished battery pack, part # CM5Z-10B759-TARM. The strange thing is that my doesn't start after the installation. And an engineer will have to come out to do some reprogramming. I thought this part # has the lower capacity and it is as simple as a drop-in replacement. My car is a 2012 model. Any thoughts on this?

 

[debugpoint136]

I can confirm that my 2013 also got a remanufactured 23 kW battery after I got the wrench sign. It was covered under battery 8 year warranty. The car was at the dealer for roughly two weeks, and they told me that the problem was a coolant leak. The dealer said that they have no say in the matter, and it's totally up to Ford as to which battery they ship as a replacement. The person checking out showed my the invoice that the battery cost $11,000.
However, the replaced battery only has 16 kW capacity. I can go up to 60-64 miles, as compared to the previous one, where I would get 70-75 in similar temp and driving conditions. Should I talk to Ford customer service?

I am also worried what happens after warranty is over. Does any one know why the coolant leak problem happens and if we can take any precautions to avoid that.

As of today I am so glad to have my car back I missed it!

Regards,
Deed

 

[tinilk]

Hi Deed, from other posts I've read on the forums here, the 23 kWh cars originally had about 19 kWh usable capacity with brand new cells. About 2 kWh is reserved as a buffer at the top, and a bit less than 2 kWh at the bottom so "full charge" is about 90% actual SOC and "battery depleted" is about 8% SOC.

Your remanufactured pack doesn't have any new cells unless some were damaged or out of spec. 16 kWh usable capacity is about what you might expect from it being pulled out of someone else's 6 or 7 year old FFE and installed in your car. You probably babied your old battery, whereas the one you have now may have been sitting fully charged for most of its life on hot asphalt in Phoenix AZ.

I'm worried about when my warranty is up too! I doubt there's anything you can do to prevent a leak happening again, besides draining & replacing the coolant every 5 years / 50k miles or less. (I don't even know whether a coolant leak was the culprit in my car's case.)

 

[user 6582]

I recently had my battery replaced. How can I tell what size the new battery is please?

 

[Anti_Climax]

If they replaced it and the size was different it would actually be noted in the service paperwork with a note that you can expect longer than "normal" charge times. It should also note the part number which you can look up. But realistically, if you see an estimated range that's ~50% higher than it used to be for the same state of charge, you likely got the upgrade.

Other than that, you can fully charge and track energy use with the trip meter, keep track of how long it takes to charge or how much time it estimates to finish charging, or pull the data from the OBD port with ForScan.

 

[user 6582]

Thanks! Seems I just received a similar battery then. Ah well.