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Streetfocus said:
Ok. More good info there. My commute can either be by toll road (85 mph all hwy) or through city, mostly 45ish mph. I take both all the time. I can definitely opt for the city route. No problem. Thanks.
FYI the FFE is speed limited to 85mph. I've managed to come close to 90 by momentum carrying me past 85 but it pretty quickly slows back down to 85. It's very easy to be going 80 and you think you're only going 60 so if the coppers are a concern use the cruise control to keep you from speeding.
 
Ok I am in South Florida, I used to live in Austin the climate is similar but more humid so Max temp is lower but feels higher. Terrain is significantly different as South Florida is flat.

I've driven a Volt for a 3 year lease and ended my lease early to pickup my 2013 FFE had 24K miles last Oct when I got it and now I've put another 6K miles.

I consistently get 60-80 miles of "range" on the guess o meter in the "cold" 30s - 40s which relate to much of Texas. I have a 40 mile round trip commute which I have been able to complete all winter on my used battery. In the hot 90+ days I have played with the guess o meter. AC set at 71 to 73 and when AC turned off with a Full state of charge is a 8mi increase in range. Just on the way home (19 miles depleted) the range hit for turning the AC on/off is 3-4 mi. With the temp in the 70s-80s I just keep the AC off and let the windows open to cool. Use of the in seat heaters in the 40s-60s rather than cabin heat and I never get close to running out of battery.

Leasing a 2017 or 2016 new will get you the miles you need no problem and prevent you from eating the depreciation. EVs are more like cell phones 80% depreciation in 2 years than cars. The smart people have figured this out and let the dealers eat the upside down. The dealers want you to be in love that you don't care/understand the financials. Unless you have at least a 7500 tax burden .... and you want that credit it really makes no sense to buy a non tesla EV and one could argue not to buy a Tesla but they hold more value (high 50%s) than any other EV on the market today.

As others mentioned a L2 (220V) Charger is mandatory to maintain 7 day daily driving and replenishment. If you are using the car as a M-F commute you can get by with the L1 120V regular trickle charger included with the car and allow the weekend to get you back to 100% charge, or find a L2 for some opportunity charging near food/shopping. Most areas are starting to have more readily available public charging. Get the charge point card and app as well as some other public charging apps to locate parking garage chargers, mini-mart chargers, municipality chargers, and good Samaritan EV owners who offer their chargers external to the house to the public in the event of a stranded or low on charge fellow EV owner.
 
That is a great reply, thank you. I wanted someone from the south to chime in. So, in retrospect, would you still buy the used FFE that you did or do you wish that you leased? It seems to make sense to buy a used one after that initial 2 year drop in value has already occurred.
 
I live on the Gulf coast - slightly cooler summer temps and more humidity than Austin. I bought my 2014 model (w 17,300 miles) back in June and I've only put about 3200 miles on it since then. Overall, my experience parallels what Kiggulak says above. In the warmer months the GOM typically estimates 94-102 miles on a full charge (primarily low speed urban driving). During Dec-Jan, range was typically in the 70s but got down to ~60 on the very few occasions when the temps were below freezing (also got up to the low to mid-90s during warmer spells).

Range takes a hit from the AC but I think the GOM overreacts to it, basically assuming the AC will be running full blast all the time. The real range hit is probably not that bad except for very hot days. The heater OTOH is a real energy hog. One thing to be aware of is that the auto climate control is very aggressive in trying to meet it's temp target. On humid but not so hot days, the temp set point will be reached quickly and the AC will switch back and forth with the heater, wasting energy uselessly. I just switch the AC manually under these conditions. The heated seats are a very nice alternative to the cabin heater and are quite economical.

I will disagree somewhat about the necessity of a level 2 EVSE. If you're only driving 40 mi/day, this will depend on your driving style. Sticking to lower speed city streets, you can probably get down to ~200-220 watt-hours/mile (from battery, not from wall) with some practice. The level 1 EVSE that comes with the car will pull ~1440 watts from a wall outlet and dump energy into the battery at ~1100 watts (75-80% efficiency). So, ~8h of charging could replenish ~40 miles of range if your driving is efficient. If you're not so efficient, you may need 10-12h of charging at level 1. Still level 2 would be very convenient and good to have for emergencies (battery thermal management and cabin pre-conditioning will also work better at level 2). There might also be a risk in relying upon a single device for your charging. If something fries that L1 it could take days to get a replacement. Be sure to check out http://www.plugshare.com - there might be public charging available along your route that you could use in emergencies.

Leaving the car unplugged at triple digit ambient temperatures plus solar gain (no shade) is not going to be good for battery longevity. This is a function of both temperature and state of charge, so depleted battery + high temp is better than full battery + high temp. I would be most concerned about solar gain during high summer. 100 F probably isn't that bad, but add another 25-30 F from baking in direct sunlight all day and you're much worse off IMHO. If you can't plug in, try to reduce solar gain (park in shade, maybe tint the windows). You can also use the MFM app to occasionally remote start the car (~15 min run time IIRC), which should turn on the battery thermal management (which only runs when the car is either on or plugged in).

If you are seriously considering a used FFE, here are a few tips:

1) the 12v lead acid battery might be in bad shape, so have it checked out. This is because dealership people unused to EVs might leave the car unused and unplugged for months on the lot. This is OK for the Li-ion pack but there are constant loads on the 12v that will deplete it. If this happens too many times, it's toast. Note well that even a sick, but fully charged, 12v can still start the FFE just fine, it doesn't take much juice. Mine seemed to be ok for about a month before it became a problem (had lost >90% of its capacity). There was also an issue with the car's software (there is a recall to fix this) that stressed the 12v. If the car you're looking at still has some of the bumper to bumper warranty left, this should cover replacement (if not, there may be some pro rata coverage from a separate battery warranty)

2) there are some necessary recalls for older models: wiring harness, car software patch, door latch, 2G modem replacement

3) insurance may be higher than a comparable ICE vehicle, depending upon your provider.

4) Insist on a long test drive. If you can, do a battery draw down test. If you can't, then at least drive around enough to substantially deplete the battery. The enhanced trip meter will display the energy discharged from the battery and the main display can give you the state of charge. From these you can get a rough estimate of the battery capacity - search the forum. Also, drive it home and plug in with the L1 EVSE to confirm that it's in working order and your outlet can handle it (even if you're installing a level 2, you might need that 120v outlet as a back up).
 
You flat earth guys -- so jealous of that range!

I'm in Atlanta, where everything is a hill -- much like the hill country around Austin (native Texan here, btw!).

My actual range here in the rolling Appalachians is about 60-64 miles best case. The AC robs about 6-8 miles from that (running on manual, never auto), and the heat steals about 18. In the cold, I turn the heat on and off manually when range is a problem. In the summer, I run AC all the time, range be damned. The car also has 20% tint all around, because HOTlanta.

The hills and stoplights everywhere (on my route) kill the range. It's all I can do to only use 280wh/mi. On flat ground, that drops to 200-220wh/mi.
 
ATL-FFE said:
The hills and stoplights everywhere (on my route) kill the range. It's all I can do to only use 280wh/mi. On flat ground, that drops to 200-220wh/mi.

My 2014 was originally from the Atlanta area. The lifetime average when I bought it was ~260 wh/mi IIRC. So far, I haven't had much trouble beating that substantially. We have a few hills here and there but it's relatively flat for the most part.
 
Well, the stealership offered $8500 for our 2012 Ford Edge Limited. Hahahahahah. I told them to eat it. The wholesale auction average sale price in our area shows $12,300 (WHOLESALE . AUCTION. !!). I guess we are still a little ways off from making the switch just yet. I'm not taking that kind of a bloodbath. Ridiculous. :evil:
 
Take it to Carmax. Seriously. If they come in lower than the dealer, then you're not going to do much better than the dealer offer.

If they come in higher, you know that dealer offer was junk. However, if you come to me wanting one of my cars (FFE), and its not a car you can get anywhere else, I'm going to lowball the trade.

Carmax has their own auction 'market' you could say, and is the best indicator of nationwide used car prices. They do more volume than anyone else, far and away.

Looking market retail prices, I'm seeing 10K retail on 120K-150K mile cars like yours, and 16K retail on 30-40K mile cars. So, depending on the mileage and tires, that $8500 might not be far off. You didn't mention mileage.

One thing though. . . I'm curious how you're seeing auction post-sale prices -- if you can see MMR's then you have a license, so why not just put your car to auction directly? Or use whoever has the license to help you get it sold.

I saved myself $500 finding my car from a private sale, but was surprised to see my car (essentially) actually selling for $7K before fees up in the northeast auctions.
 
Streetfocus said:
Does anyone leave their car in the sun for long periods of time (like 12 hours at a time)? It would sit unplugged at my work and I want it to be okay.


Mine stays in the sun all day, from when I leave home at 7am to 5pm. Then it is outside the garage all night.

I have not noticed, any changes in the range, except when it is cold below say 55 F, then the range is about 2-10 miles shorter. Not using the heater for those mornings, only the seat warmer.
 
Perfect. Thanks.

So we took it to Carmax and the offer is $11,500. (90K miles) That is much better. I have access to the auction price but no license. I can work with the $11,500 offer. That other dealer just lost my business though.
 
90K miles, assuming good tires and no major reconditioning would get you no more than $12.5t in the southeast, because that car will do around 13.5 or so at auction, maybe 14 -- then go on a local lot or a BHPH for 17.9. SUV's are doing well, so the buying dealer might put it out themselves at $18k too...

Carmax has their own formula, but a quick scan shows me Carmax retails yours at about $18,299. They want to make about 35%.

A dealers buyer might get you closer to $12k, just watch the sale price on the new car. My advice: don't even talk about a trade until the new car price is locked down.
 
Well, we did it! We picked up a Frosted Glass FFE with 31K miles for $8800. I charged it and it started with 72 mi range this morning. Super nice. So far so good.
 
Congratulations.

Just remember the range meter is really called a guess o meter. It is extremely sensitive to how you drive. Don't be surprised if you charge the car tonight and the guess o meter reads 30 miles. You didn't do anything wrong, and there is nothing wrong with the car, you just haven't learned how to drive smoothly yet.
 
Oh, thank you. It read 60 range when we picked it up fully charged at the dealer, so it will bounce around until the driving habits are established I gather. Thanks for the tips and recommendations, everybody!
Next up, a couple of questions :
#1) Do any of the FFEs have the visors that slide/extend. Damn, that is handy on my ST and if they are available in the right color, I would switch them out. I use the slide to block the sun everyday.
#2) I noticed that a lot of people in here also have a C-MAX. We were considering getting another FFE, but would it make more sense to get a hybrid like the cmax for those rare occasions when range or travel is needed? Or do people just stop and charge them on the route or what? What do y'all do?
 
Streetfocus said:
#2) I noticed that a lot of people in here also have a C-MAX. We were considering getting another FFE, but would it make more sense to get a hybrid like the cmax for those rare occasions when range or travel is needed? Or do people just stop and charge them on the route or what? What do y'all do?

This will depend entirely upon your particular situation and habits. If both of you will be just tooling around Austin and environs for ~99% of the time, then two FFEs might serve you very well. If long range trips are actually going to be rare, it will not be much of a hassle/burden to rent something (or temporarily exchange cars with a responsible friend or relative). OTOH if they're not rare (or they're very unpredictable), IMO the hassle/expense would just not be worth it to have two FFEs. These cars, at least the older used models, have no DC fast charging capability, so the fastest possible charging would be level 2 (6.6 kw max; ~3.5 hours to charge from 0-100%). This might be OK for short inter-city trips (maybe up to 70-80 miles one way), if you can leave your car to recharge while you do your shopping or whatever. For significantly longer trips the long recharge times will be extremely impractical.
 
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