Three Years with a FFE

[jmueller065]

Interesting review/article by Marc Lee in InsideEVs:
http://insideevs.com/three-years-with-a-ford-focus-electric-review/

 

[triangles]

Thanks for posting this. The article was interesting. I'm only about a year and a half into my FFE ownership and couldn't be happier. I plan to keep my FFE until it crumbles into a pile of rust much as my 17 year old Escort ZX2 is approaching. I'll have to make the FFE my winter beater after I get my Model 3. :lol: I've been fighting the itch to build a gas pusher trailer so that my FFE can escape Toledo.

 

[hybridbear]

Very interesting article.

I agree with all of his likes & dislikes, except about the brakes & the range loss. I have experienced range loss. And I think the brakes on Ford's hybrids/PHEV/BEV cars are fantastic. I've owned a Prius & I've done test drives of just about every other PHEV & BEV on the market, and I think Ford's integration of the regen braking & friction brakes is fantastic. The transition is imperceptible, and the brake coach is a great tool for learning to brake more gently.

A particular "like" of mine with the FFE is the energy display info & the MFM app. I did a weekend test drive of an i3 last weekend & BMW's app/energy displays in the car are pitiful compared to the FFE.

I have also experienced the door handle unlocking hiccups. The Fusion never once misbehaved. It uses a slightly different system that seems to work better than the FFE system. I, however, am not stubborn enough to not use the key fob when the door handles misbehave, but it is frustrating behavior. It seems to only happen when I have passengers with me.

 

[michael]

I have 48K miles on mine and about four months to run on the lease. It's been a good car, but I will be so glad to see it go. Battery capacity is down to about 15.5 kWh, and it's a challenge to do what it used to do easily. My daughter is back from college for the summer and is using the Volt so I'm forced to make the FFE work, but it isn't always easy.

 

[WattsUp]

Battery capacity is down to about 15.5 kWh

What is your methodology for this measurement? Trip meter, OBD tools, etc.?

 

[michael]

Trip meter plus small remainder on ETE so I don't have to run it to zero. For example, 12.0 on trip meter plus 3.3 on ETE, I conclude 15.3.

I have run heater run-down tests to zero and get good agreement.

The initial ETE after a charge is several kWh higher than what I see while running it down.

ETE as reported by OBD


Follow up:

Today I left home with 17.0 ETE reported, battery temp 82F

I arrived at work with 10.6 consumed, ETE 4.5, so I estimate actual capacity to depletion at 15.1 kWh. Battery temperature was 86.

 

[az erik]

But that's well under the 80% capacity that's promised for 8 yrs 80k. Drop it off have it tested, show your own tests and get a new battery.

I've had mine almost 3 years, 20k and can't say I've seen battery loss. Still runs the same kw per mile (and raneg) or minute whatever that is, and I've been in 100+ degrees for 70% of the cars life. If the deplete is from cold I could understand. Or if the cooling isn't working.

Pluses: Thing gets me everywhere near I need it for. Wife hijacked it for HOV lane and put the most miles on it in the 3 years
Solidly reliable, well built for a Ford, not a Leaf

Minus: Wife forgets to put sunshade in the car and leaves it in a parking lot in 100+, complains to me AC doesn't work AT ALL until she's 10 miles down the road (11 mile commute home). This is understandable but the sunshade and crack a window, makes a HUGE difference.
Ran the battery dead once (my fault 117+ outside and undercharged for the trip)
Random non-starts (ding chime etc no green car)
App/car comm failed a couple times
Charging lock up: Wont switch to charge now or value charge just --:-- (requires Sync reboot to fix)
Door lock hickups often
Charge ring craps out every 6 months. Gave up turned it off
Cant seem to charge ANYWHERE outside of my house as it would appear everyone in the world has gone DC charging only, lame but livable.

 

[michael]

But that's well under the 80% capacity that's promised for 8 yrs 80k. Drop it off have it tested, show your own tests and get a new battery.

I'm not aware that the warranty considers 80% to be failure...do you have a reference for this?

And even if it is so, the thing goes away in three months...if I get started with a battery replacement, chances are that it will be stuck at the dealer for half that time. My plan is to drive off as many miles as I can fit in before the lease expires and then to replace it with a Bolt as soon as they become widely available.

 

[az erik]

But that's well under the 80% capacity that's promised for 8 yrs 80k. Drop it off have it tested, show your own tests and get a new battery.

I'm not aware that the warranty considers 80% to be failure...do you have a reference for this?

And even if it is so, the thing goes away in three months...if I get started with a battery replacement, chances are that it will be stuck at the dealer for half that time. My plan is to drive off as many miles as I can fit in before the lease expires and then to replace it with a Bolt as soon as they become widely available.

http://www.hybridcars.com/how-long-will-an-evs-battery-last/
It's quoted in a couple places, I'm still looking for that definitive answer while swamped at work.
8yrs 80k 80% was what my dealer told me. Thats the battery, charger, traction motor, and inverters.

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/catalog/owner_guides/13hybwa2e.pdf

Page 10 and 11. "Gradual loss of capacity" is not a 50% loss in 3 years. So it could require a bit more fight but the Battery and EV components are 8 year 100k. If I remember the the actual terms behind this are 80% capacity in 8 years time. Less is a failure. LOTS of LEAF batteries would have been replaced in PHX due to this.

 

[hybridbear]

http://www.hybridcars.com/how-long-will-an-evs-battery-last/
It's quoted in a couple places, I'm still looking for that definitive answer while swamped at work.
8yrs 80k 80% was what my dealer told me. That's the battery, charger, traction motor, and inverters.

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/catalog/owner_guides/13hybwa2e.pdf

Page 10 and 11. "Gradual loss of capacity" is not a 50% loss in 3 years. So it could require a bit more fight but the Battery and EV components are 8 year 100k. If I remember the the actual terms behind this are 80% capacity in 8 years time. Less is a failure. LOTS of LEAF batteries would have been replaced in PHX due to this.

The linked article from HybridCars.com mentions that Nissan said 70% after 5 years/50,000 miles. Ford has never given a specific guarantee that I have seen. I don't think Michael's HVB is worse than the 70% after 50,000 miles that Nissan states. I doubt anything would be done by Ford under warranty.

 

[sefs]

The only thing the warranty covers is if the battery isn't working. Capacity loss is not covered. It says it in the warranty manual:

Note: Lithium-Ion Battery Gradual Capacity Loss
The Lithium-ion battery (EV battery) will experience gradual
capacity loss with time and use (similar to all lithium-ion batteries),
which is considered normal wear and tear. Loss of battery capacity
due to or resulting from gradual capacity loss is NOT covered under
the New Vehicle Limited Warranty. See your Owner’s Manual for
important tips on how to maximize the life and capacity of the
Lithium-ion battery.

 

[WattsUp]

I guess it all hinges on what the definition of "gradual" is.

I suppose if you had a "sudden" loss of capacity, that would be covered.

 

[WattsUp]

Also, do we know exactly what is covered under the 8-year/100,000 mile "EV parts" warranty required in California?

 

[michael]

If a cell collapsed, I think that would be considered a failure. As long as all the cells stay in balance, I think they would call it gradual degradation.

I suppose if the electronics failed and allowed the battery to die from excessive discharge, it would also be correct to call that failure


My case would surely be called gradual degradation. But like I said, in three months it's Fords problem.