Where to charge? Often wondered

[Abelgoddard]

So we all drive a Ford. But there are a lot more Nissan Leafs on the road. And when it comes to plugging in, I seem to find a fair number of Nissan dealerships in the PlugShare app. So the question is, do any of you charge at a Nissan dealership? If so is it sort of weird to do? Finally, is it ok to leave your car there for a couple hours and go somewhere?

 

[NightHawk]

I think Nissan only offers free charging to Nissan Leaf owners, not all EVs?
Might be able to get a charge at a Ford dealer with a FFE though.

 

[Olagon]

Our local Ford has the charging station on the roof in a lot jam packed with cars. Took them a bit of time to make room to charge ours before we got it (and we didn't even get it fully charged). Best to call a dealer before dropping by.

 

[WattsUp]

This begs the question tho... who is a dealership charging station really for?

I think the dealership stations are basically there as a courtesy for visitors to the dealership, not for general-purpose public charging. Even for owners of dealership-branded EVs, it is not like the dealership is offering a "gas station" (which I think some -- tho few very -- people are under the impression is true). For general-purpose public charging, EV drivers should be looking for commercial or municipal ChargePoint, Blink, etc. locations -- not running back to their dealership.

That's not to say you shouldn't consider using a dealership station in an emergency, but I really don't think dealership charging stations are intended for regular use by people who otherwise have no business at the dealership.

 

[Abelgoddard]

I'm in agreement with most of what y'all said here, but for the reviews of a dealership I just saw tonight. They talk about the 2 chargers being so accessible and completely open, not needing a card or anything to make them work. Too, at least one reviewer mentioned that there wasn't much by way of stores or restaurants that you could easily walk to while charging.

Now, that's just the one dealership, and I haven't ever even clicked on others to see details or reviews, so I don't know about any other dealerships. Too, only one review I saw actually said they were a Leaf, the others were mostly ambiguous. But it seems like I remember that charging at the dealerships for free for a year was a perk of buying a Leaf, but that might've been a limited promotion or I might even be cross-contaminating my memories with features and cars being interchanged. :?

 

[dmen]

Dealership charge stations in my experience are not all created equally.
I think there can be some generalizing by company though.

Nissan dealers seem to only expect Leafs to charge there. But they do expect people to use their units not just when shopping at the dealership. They made a big push for DCQCs at all dealerships, and I believe free access to those to extend range is a marketed feature of the Leaf, at least the trim with QC. The level 2 units are usually positioned next to the DCQC, in an easily accessed location front and center of the dealership. I can't imagine they would get mad if you pulled into an open spot and plugged in, but I'm not sure they'd move their Leafs out of a spot for you. As an aside, our local Nissan dealer sponsored a free level 2 unit at a nearby college, so that was cool.

Ford dealers usually don't expect anyone to use their Chargers. They mostly view charging as a courtesy to customers, as Wattsup says. But I'm not sure how much courtesy they really offer-- every Ford dealership I've seen has the outside charger out of view toward the back where the employees park. I've made three service stops at two dealerships since buying the car, and every time the level 2 was powered down and someone had to figure out where the switch was to turn it on so I could charge before leaving. They were always nice about it, though. I just think it isn't requested often. When I purchased my FFE I was told that all EV certified dealers also have chargers in the servicing area, yet oddly in 3 service visits they never plugged me in while performing whatever work was indicated. At least one guy here posted an issue where he was sort of promised access to the dealer's charger whenever if he bought from them, and later made to feel unwelcome charging there.

BMW expects people to use their chargers. The few I've noticed around here have Chargepoint units. At least one is free to Bimmers and the usual chargepoint cost to anyone else.

But anyway dealerships are rarely in a location one would want to spend 2-3 hours, so I agree they would be of limited utility even if the dealers were more cooperative. And all but the BMWs around here are turned off and/or located in gated lots after hours and on weekends, when I would most likely find myself in need of an emergency charge. For what it's worth, I would love for Tesla to throw the rest of us a bone and plop down a few Level 2s wherever they have Superchargers. The fractional additional cost would be tiny, many are in prime locations where they could even charge a premium fee for these, and the stark contrast of Level 2 charging with supercharging would provide quite the advertising to a target audience.

 

[triangles]

For general-purpose public charging, EV drivers should be looking for commercial or municipal ChargePoint, Blink, etc. locations -- not running back to their dealership.

That's not to say you shouldn't consider using a dealership station in an emergency, but I really don't think dealership charging stations are intended for regular use by people who otherwise have no business at the dealership.

If I were in CA I would probably agree with you. However here in OH the dealership charge stations out number public charge stations by a very wide margin if not an order of magnitude. I guess what I am saying is that public charge stations here are essentially nonexistent. In fact for me to get to another metropolitan area, I would have to use a dealership charge station or a campground that would let me use their hookup for my EVSE. I plan to do 99.9% of my charging at home.

FWIW, I almost bought a Leaf since I couldn't find a Ford dealer that wanted to sell me a FFE. I just couldn't get past the Leaf's looks. When the Nissan dealer was working up a quote on a Leaf, I asked about their charge stations and if they were only for Leaf owners. He said they were available to anyone who wanted to use it. He even said that they are available after hours. From what I've read on this and other forums. It seems like each dealer makes up their own usage policy for their EVSE's Some allow public use and some do not.

 

[michael]

Keyes chevy welcomed my FFE as did Carson Toyota. The EV specialist there told me she understands what EV drivers need to deal with and wants to help.

Simi Valley ford has theirs right out front and told me its freely available business hours. I don't blame them for shutting it off at night. Inevitably some local will abusively make it his every night charging spot.

 

[unplugged]

First, I will note that what make of car charges at a dealership is up to the dealer. As independent owners, they can pretty much exclude all but their own models.

In order to qualify as a certified dealership for selling EVs, dealers have got to meet a certain set of guidelines set by the company’s Dearborn headquarters.

Ford certification for dealers selling the Focus Electric and other models in Ford’s product offering mandates that such businesses install a minimum of two onsite electric charging stations, one that is available to customers. Those same dealers must also participate in a Ford assessment program that identifies energy efficiency opportunities, ways to lower operating expenses and suggests initiatives that will lower overall carbon emissions.

Each dealership must also staff employees who are well trained and knowledgable about electric vehicles. Ford insists that 80 percent of each dealership’s jobs in sales and service be staffed by workers who complete an intense EV training certification programs. And for anyone who has walked into an automobile dealership interested in electric cars but exasperated that they cannot even find one to test drive, let alone touch, that will change because Ford is requiring dealerships to have at least one Focus Electric available for demonstrations and events.

Here are the requirements as published by Ford Motors in @Ford Online, an official publication of the company:

Dealers must meet a list of requirements to become certified, including:
• One of the two required charging stations at the dealership must be in the customer area and the other must be in the service area
• At least one Focus Electric must be available at all times for demonstrations and events
• Of the sales consultant, sales manager, service advisor and service manager jobs at each location, 80 percent must meet specific electric vehicle training certification requirements that cover topics including advanced knowledge of electrification
• Each showroom will have point-of-purchase display materials including digital assets and window signage
• Participation in a Ford Go Green Dealer Onsite Facility Assessment to identify energy and cost saving opportunities with a goal of facilitating energy efficiency, lower operating expenses and carbon footprint reduction.

As published in: http://www.at.ford.com/news/cn/Pages/First%20Ford%20Dealers%20Certified%20to%20Sell%20Focus%20Electric%20Americas%20Most%20Efficient%20Five%20Seater%20with%20National%20Rollout%20to%20Follo.aspx ; http://www.triplepundit.com/2012/05/ford-focus-electric-dealers-environmental-requirements/ ; http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2013/02/ford-to-have-900-ev-certified-dealerships-by-spring.html ; http://www.brandchannel.com/home/post/2012/05/08/Ford-EV-Green-050812.aspx

 

[joejoe2]

First, I will note that what make of car charges at a dealership is up to the dealer. As independent owners, they can pretty much exclude all but their own models.

When you say they can exclude all but their own models, can they also exclude their own?

 

[EVA]

The first cut at figuring out if you can charge at a dealer is with Plugshare. Look at the notes for the location. Dealers that are happy to have other cars plug in will say that. Dealers that are nasty, um, I mean only want to charge their brand of car, will say something to that effect on Plugshare (or somebody will post that they couldn't charge). I always pull up and ask first before assuming I can charge my car. Even if I pulled into a Ford dealer with the FFE, I'd ask.

I was also of the opinion that Nissan dealers would never let me charge. Until I started asking. I haven't run into a dealer yet that said no. In fact most of them jump up and down to let me charge (granted it is the Tesla). I would fully expect the same treatment if I pulled up with the FFE.

I have charged at BMW and Nissan dealers. The last guy at the Nissan dealer in Fort Wayne, IN said - hey looks like your car needs a wash. You can leave the keys with us, we'll take care of it.

 

[joejoe2]

Thanks, I guess I was thinking about the post by unplugged, where it showed that Ford was required to have one charger in a customer area. Does that mean that are supposed to leave it open to allow customers to have access to it? The dealer I have checked out always seem to have either non-electric vehicles or PHEVs (which I was told are used by service center staff) surrounding the one charger that is out in the open. They were very nice when I asked about letting me charge, I imagine I would be waiting a long time for them to move their cars. I do not have pay public charging that is convenient.

 

[twscrap]

A dealership can exclude anyone they want, period. A Ford Dealership refused to let us charge our FFE even though we couldn't make it home without a charge. Even though their EVSEs were out front, they require a service appointment to be able to use them. Pretty much told us to screw off. Needless to say, I don't have nice things to say about that particular dealership.

 

[WattsUp]

A Ford Dealership refused to let us charge our FFE even though we couldn't make it home without a charge.

A very odd way for a dealership to behave, especially one affiliated with your car make. I guess they don't care much for future business or word-of-mouth.

 

[joejoe2]

A Ford Dealership refused to let us charge our FFE even though we couldn't make it home without a charge.

A very odd way for a dealership to behave, especially one affiliated with your car make. I guess they don't care much for future business or word-of-mouth.

To me, if Ford requires a charger in a "customer area" Ford wants the charger in an area for customers to use. I would think if dealership wants to charge their vehicles, they should use the charger that is required in the service area. The only reason that makes sense to me for a customer to be denied use of the charger in the customer area is if it is being used to charge another customer's vehicle.

I would think that "customer" means customer of Ford, not the dealership, since the requirement is from Ford.

 

[WattsUp]

I would think that "customer" means customer of Ford, not the dealership ...

Of course... and we all know that customer interests are every dealership's top priority, and especially the interests of customers who have already purchased a car. This is why we clearly need forcibly preserve the dealership franchise system through legislation, and ensure that no other business model is able to lure unsuspecting customers away from their benevolent, caring dealerships. After all, any other business model would only and obviously be inferior, and unable to represent customer interests any better than that of the dealership franchise. We must do everything we can to protect this existing and cherished customer-centric system.

 

[michael]

Seems to me an equally high priority to make sure that all customers get the best possible deal and never pay for anything that isn't essential and in their best interest.

 

[WattsUp]

Seems to me an equally high priority to make sure that all customers get the best possible deal and never pay for anything that isn't essential and in their best interest.

Exactly, which is what the poor overwhelmed auto customers need a trusted salesperson to guide them through the confusing array of options and prices (with prices of course left until the very end of the buying process, as they are the most confusing). I mean (chuckle) it would obviously never work to organize and present buying options on a clear and well-organized website, for example, where the customer could configure just the car they need themselves, see a standardized, market-driven price, and determine if they want to purchase right then and there. I mean, please.

 

[michael]

Don't forget the dizzying array of extra benefits offered by the finance guy once you thought the deal was all worked out...protection plans,maintenance plans, theft preventers...an endless list of valuable options you can buy on impulse

In fairness... At Keyes chevy and Carson Toyota they offered none of these. The ford dealer on the other hand tried to push an ignition immobilizer into my FFE. this on a car that practically nobody has heard of or wants to buy, that only goes 80 miles, has a built in car locating system.

 

[EVA]

Nice comments about the dealer network WattsUp. Got a great smile out of those. Yeah, only the benevolent car dealers can provide the service to sell cars. We better protect them at all costs.