2013 FFE Erratic Start Issues

[georjajim]

My 2013 FFE (120K) has begun to not "start" (not getting the green car). When this first happened, I went through turn off/turn on several times until it finally appeared and I was able to drive home. Once home, I turned the car off and could not get the car (green car) to show. I could move the gear shift, but there was not power.

I then disconnected the 12 V battery for a bit, then reconnected. I was then able to get the green light and car would operate. Next morning, I came out to drive car, and it operated normally as I drove two miles to grocery store. When I came back to car to start it, had same issue! I repeated the OFF/ON GAME for about ten minutes and againn, at one point got the green light and was able to return home.

Upon arrival home, I read a few things online and decided to replace a 5V fuse under the glovebox that relates to starter/push button (# 78, if I recall). Got the green light again, and left it alone overnight. Started up normally (I felt so proud that I had "fixed" the problem, and drove 23 miles to work). Turned off car at work and, once again, now the green car will not come back on.

Any thoughts?

 

[Heima]

The timing for the "Start" is kind of tricky, if you do not wait long enough, it will only power on. So try this:
1. Get in the car and close the door.
2. Press the brake pedal firmly and hold.
3. Wait for at least 1-2 seconds.
4. While holding, press and release the Start button.
5. Wait for the green indicator. Do not release the brake pedal until you see the green indicator.

If this is not working, consider that there might be a problem with the brake pedal switch that senses for the start sequence, and not necessarily the brake light.

UPDATE: Just checked the wiring diagram. The switch for the brake pedal has two functions. When lightly pressed, it open a circuit that is used to suspend cruise control. Press it further, and it closes the circuit to turn on the brake lights. But this is not done directly, it is done through the PCM and BCM. So as a check:
1. Does the cruise control stop working when you lightly touch the brake pedal?
2. Do the brake lights come on consistently and steady when you further press the brake pedal?
A "No" to either question might indicate the problem is with that switch, and consequently, the green indicator.

 

[fixitsteve]

I second everything Heima said. When I first got my 2013 FFE it would do that. I retaught myself how to start the car. Has not done it for years. If you have or can access a scan tool, watch live data of brake light switch.

 

[georjajim]

Thinking is may be the 12v battery not holding a charge, which can make certain things "wonky". Checking that out today, and then taking it in to run diagnostics.

 

[Heima]

Just checked with my 2017 FFE. It seems that if I very lightly touch the brake pedal, the vehicle will start and the green indicator is shown.
So maybe an inspection of the switch is in order.
It appears that if the connector is disconnected from the switch, you can get the green indicator by only pressing the Start button. HOWEVER, you will no longer have a brake light function.
If you install the service manual (find link through search) go to the wiring diagrams, and click on the Turn Signal Stop Hazard Lamps, you can see the circuit for this switch.

 

[georjajim]

12v battery is fine. electrical systems are fine. Gonna have to go in for diagnostics to see if that process can isolate the problem.

 

[georjajim]

The timing for the "Start" is kind of tricky, if you do not wait long enough, it will only power on. So try this:
1. Get in the car and close the door.
2. Press the brake pedal firmly and hold.
3. Wait for at least 1-2 seconds.
4. While holding, press and release the Start button.
5. Wait for the green indicator. Do not release the brake pedal until you see the green indicator.

If this is not working, consider that there might be a problem with the brake pedal switch that senses for the start sequence, and not necessarily the brake light.

UPDATE: Just checked the wiring diagram. The switch for the brake pedal has two functions. When lightly pressed, it open a circuit that is used to suspend cruise control. Press it further, and it closes the circuit to turn on the brake lights. But this is not done directly, it is done through the PCM and BCM. So as a check:
1. Does the cruise control stop working when you lightly touch the brake pedal?
2. Do the brake lights come on consistently and steady when you further press the brake pedal?
A "No" to either question might indicate the problem is with that switch, and consequently, the green indicator.

Interestingly, and I don’t speak circuitry, so this is why I’m seeking help to understand before returning to the mechanic, since this problem began, the previously active cruise control no longer activates, AND, although the brake lights disengage after backing out of the driveway, the first time I engage the brakes, the brake lights do not disengage until the car is turned off. Could it be the switch for the brake pedal instead?
I went to Ford Parts catalog online with my VIN and searched for a PCM, but only thing I found was the ECM, and that’s a whopping $2,500 part. Is there a separate PCM for the brake pedal?

 

[Anti_Climax]

You might also want to see if the shift readout is as expected. The system needs to see it in park, detect the pedal being pressed and recognize the button press. There is only a single PCM and I'm pretty sure there's no ECM at all. Wondering if that search is giving you ICE parts.

Based on what you're describing though, it sounds like the brake switch or whatever is supposed to be monitoring it.

 

[charles kowaleski]

Mine acted like this when the fob battery got weak. But you can also check your 12v battery connection's from battery to fuse box and battery to ground either one can cause massively confusing headaches.

 

[Dave st.peter]

Mine acted like this when the fob battery got weak. But you can also check your 12v battery connection's from battery to fuse box and battery to ground either one can cause massively confusing headaches.

Mine was the fob also, but be where there are little dots that can fall out and you will lose use of the corresponding button use tape to keep it over the sensor, a trick locksmith showed me and I put the battery in upside down which was very aggravating I also got another key fob for the car to reset the new key fob it's where the ignition would be just stick it in there they'll know what's going on if it says rehome the key on the dash stick your key fob in there it'll reset it another tricky told me the battery the lettering goes down All Fords have that problem they don't put tape to hold the disc on the sensor

 

[Tony2thumbs]

This just happened to me there is a small rubber bushing under the brake pedal at the switch. mine fell out and acted exactly as you described. it was a $4 part from the dealer. Works normal now

 

[georjajim]

Wow...will check out when I get home! Will update my findings.

 

[georjajim]

Anyone know where I can find a brake pedal parts diagram? Can't find anything online worth a damn.

 

[Anti_Climax]

If you search around the forum there's links to the service manual. If it doesn't have a useful diagram, you might be able to figure it out from the diagrams on the Ford parts site.

 

[Dave st.peter]

The timing for the "Start" is kind of tricky, if you do not wait long enough, it will only power on. So try this:
1. Get in the car and close the door.
2. Press the brake pedal firmly and hold.
3. Wait for at least 1-2 seconds.
4. While holding, press and release the Start button.
5. Wait for the green indicator. Do not release the brake pedal until you see the green indicator.

If this is not working, consider that there might be a problem with the brake pedal switch that senses for the start sequence, and not necessarily the brake light.

UPDATE: Just checked the wiring diagram. The switch for the brake pedal has two functions. When lightly pressed, it open a circuit that is used to suspend cruise control. Press it further, and it closes the circuit to turn on the brake lights. But this is not done directly, it is done through the PCM and BCM. So as a check:
1. Does the cruise control stop working when you lightly touch the brake pedal?
2. Do the brake lights come on consistently and steady when you further press the brake pedal?
A "No" to either question might indicate the problem is with that switch, and consequently, the green indicator.

Yaaaa when you move to fast in the start up sequence, it won't go, what a pest. Have to slow down and do it methodically,

 

[georjajim]

My brake lights stay on all the time the car is "on" and do not dim/brigten when I actually brake.

Cruise control does not work at all at the present time.. Brake light switch???? Brake pedal bushing pin?

About to send my PCM/EDM module out for refurb ($650)..so really hope this might correct the problem for at $20 fix. Plus the dismantling of left front wheel well to get at the damn module!

 

[Anti_Climax]

My brake lights stay on all the time the car is "on" and do not dim/brigten when I actually brake.

Cruise control does not work at all at the present time.. Brake light switch???? Brake pedal bushing pin?

About to send my PCM/EDM module out for refurb ($650)..so really hope this might correct the problem for at $20 fix. Plus the dismantling of left front wheel well to get at the damn module!

And you've checked the switches with a multi-meter?

 

[georjajim]

Had the master mechanic at a Pep Boys check out everything and he ruled out everything such that he said it has to be the PCM, because everything else seem to check out. But think we will check or even replace the switch. I’d rather spend 30 bucks and found out it works, then 650 !

 

[georjajim]

Simply replaced the brake light switch, and all of the problems disappeared! Motorcraft part SW7810.

 

[Anti_Climax]

Good to hear.