2017 FFE Normal battery degradation?

[vkdyer]

My range has dropped over the last couple months. Since my last full charge, I've driven 85.5 miles over 3 days with 8 trips. The battery shows 10% remaining (and only 5 miles). If I add up the kWh for the 8 trips, it comes to 18.5 kWh. The battery has a stated kWh of 33.5. So according to these numbers, I used 90% of the battery but only 18.5 kWh. The car will be 8 years old in April. Is this normal degradation or does it sound like something is wrong?

 

[jghall00]

If you use Forscan, will tell you the remaining kWh in the pack at full charge. Mine was around 25.8 with 68K.

 

[Anti_Climax]

My range has dropped over the last couple months. Since my last full charge, I've driven 85.5 miles over 3 days with 8 trips. The battery shows 10% remaining (and only 5 miles). If I add up the kWh for the 8 trips, it comes to 18.5 kWh. The battery has a stated kWh of 33.5. So according to these numbers, I used 90% of the battery but only 18.5 kWh. The car will be 8 years old in April. Is this normal degradation or does it sound like something is wrong?

33.5kWh is not the available capacity, it's the direct raw capacity of the cells. 100% is 95% SoC and 0% is about 8.5% SoC. So even when absolutely brand new, the available capacity is 29kWh. What you're seeing here suggests your capacity has dropped to about 70% of the nominal value.

If it's been abrupt and recent it could be a single cell triggering the discharge limit before the other cells are near it. In which case the capacity is there but it can't be safely used without drawing a cell down below spec. Going too low on series cells can do REALLY nasty stuff like flip their polarity.

Beyond that, they do have a finite lifespan that targets around 80% after 8 to 10 years. But that is tied to a bunch of factors that vary widely by drivers. At 4-5 years, my original battery had lost around 25% of the available capacity but I have no idea how the original owner treated it. My replacement hasn't degraded nearly as much in the same timeframe.

 

[Sftbldad]

My range has dropped over the last couple months. Since my last full charge, I've driven 85.5 miles over 3 days with 8 trips. The battery shows 10% remaining (and only 5 miles). If I add up the kWh for the 8 trips, it comes to 18.5 kWh. The battery has a stated kWh of 33.5. So according to these numbers, I used 90% of the battery but only 18.5 kWh. The car will be 8 years old in April. Is this normal degradation or does it sound like something is wrong?

First thing you need to do is check your warranty date on Ford.com. These batteries do not degrade because of use like stated by others there are 2 cells that seem to take the brunt of charging and discharging. Warranty battery packs run anywhere from 24Kw up to around 27Kw (available) If you’re still in warranty which you should be. Your car is covered to retain 70% capacity at 8years 100k. If you are dipping into the 80 mile range it’s time to head to the dealer. Mine went from a 100 to the 70’s in a couple months… Plus remember Ford also covers $40 a day rental charge. They paid almost 3 grand for mine…If you go the dealer route call customer service for and open up a buy/back claim…. This gives you more options because Ford will make you an offer on the car but it takes time and the average repair runs 30 to 90 days…(depending on battery availability)… Good luck…

 

[vkdyer]

Thank you both for your replies. I've got a charge log going back to day 1 (April 2017) and a trip log back to March 2023 (after the new tires I put on dropped my range), so I have numbers, but not the knowledge for interpreting them. I tried using my OBD scanner on it and couldn't get it to connect, and I've read enough now to know I'll need a different one to try Forscan. I've loved this car so much, but with the range going under 100 miles now, it's getting to be a problem. (I once got 140 miles out of it in the summer time.) Since the battery warranty is running out soon, I'm thinking I will need to trade it while I can still get something for it. This is a great little car, and if I could wave a magic wand and get a 200-mile range, I'd keep it forever.

 

[Anti_Climax]

You can get the capacity without Forscan, it's just more tedious. Top it all the way up, clear one of your trip meters, drive until it's nearly at 0%, and then park it and run the heater until it hits 0. You're 90% of the way there, so I wouldn't expect it to give you a drastically different reading than what's been estimated here ForScan will let you check cell voltages to see if any are particularly problematic.

But there's no single range that's "good enough", it's always "good enough for you". Someone else could get a few more years of of it.

 

[vkdyer]

I appreciate the advice. I was hoping I could get something out of FORScan, but I seem to be struck. I got it installed on a laptop, and I seem to have the right kind of cable now. I'm not quite sure what I'm looking for, but if I try to test the BECM Module, I get a message saying I need an Extended License. I found where I thought I could generate a free one, but it said I'd entered an incorrect name. Then I found where I needed to sign up for the FORScan forum to get registered, but I couldn't register, because it said it was only open to paid members. I could get one test to work that showed "no fault" on any of the battery cells I added to the dashboard.

I guess I just need to take it down to the dealer and try my luck. This car has never been to the dealer ever. When I bought it, the local dealers (Tennessee) couldn't (wouldn't?) get me one, so I bought it from a dealer in Maryland and had it shipped to my house. I have always wondered if the local dealer would even be able to work on it, since I don't think there are any others around. In the almost 8 years I've driven it, I've never seen another one on the road. I've even had people tell me that Ford never made an electric Focus.

 

[vkdyer]

I think I finally got something I understand out of FORScan. I charged it up to 100%, and the BAT_TO_EMPTY_ESTIM_KWh reads 20.298. I've got 51k miles, and I'm still inside 8 years, so I will see if that will get me a battery replacement or a buyout offer. Thanks all!

 

[Anti_Climax]

You should also be able to check cell voltages. Verify them at full charge and again near discharged to see if there are outliers. If there are it's more ammo for a warranty replacement.

 

[vkdyer]

I found the cell voltage check in FORScan. Cell 1 = 3.769, Cell 15 = 4.000, all the others are between 3.989 and 3.995. That's with the battery mostly charged (92%). I'll drive it around and run it down and compare. From this, it doesn't look like anything looks bad.

I took it to the dealer today and told them my story. I've got an appointment in 3 days to take it back to them, and they will check it out.

For all the years I've had the car, whenever I've charged it, when it's finished charging, the lights turn off on the car, and it also turns off the charger. A couple months back, it quit turning off the charger. All the lights are off on the car, but charger still has the "charging" light lit up. I hear some noises around the car, like something is still happening, but no lights are on. I've been just unplugging it. When I check the battery settings, it shows it's charged to 100%. Since this started, I haven't charged it overnight any more. I check on it, and unplug it as soon as I see it's done. Not sure if this could cause battery damage or not.

 

[Anti_Climax]

There is a balancing mode where cells are isolated and float charged independently to try and get them to the same value. My guess is that it's in that balance mode trying to get the voltage on cell 1 up, which requires the EVSE to stay energized.

 

[vkdyer]

Took it to the Ford dealer this morning. They said there's nothing wrong. It's just the normal cold weather and non-LRR tires lowering the range. From what I can tell, they did nothing but reset the lifetime statistics. I charged it to 100% and now FORScan shows BAT_TO_EMPTY_ESTIM, kWh = 19.916 and BAT_PACK_VOLT, V = 349.54. Cell #1: shows 3.869 V. All the others show between 4.063 and 4.076.

I asked them about the charger not turning off and they said they couldn't test it there, but resetting the statistics might have fixed that, and I should try again. I brought it home, and plugged it in, and of course it still does the same thing.

I guess I will go back and show them the numbers out of FORScan, but I don't think I'm going to get anything on the warranty.

 

[Anti_Climax]

They're bullshitting you. Ford decides what's covered and what isn't.

 

[Sftbldad]

Battery is covered for 70% capacity at 8 years 100k. That is ruffly 20Kw to empty on a full charge.Yours is showing the classic signs!! Your a month or two away from a variance code….Ford dealers all have to go thru corporate to get approval to repair these. They will also buy these back rather than repair them if you want that option. Repair takes a couple months on average and a buy pack is about the same. Dealers only see a definite error code before they think they can proceed. If I were you I would call corporate and start a buyback request even if you want to keep the car. Basically attack it from 2 ends….

 

[Sftbldad]

They're bullshitting you. Ford decides what's covered and what isn't.

Unfortunately it’s all corporate on these for repair approval… Been thru it..

 

[vkdyer]

They're bullshitting you.

Yes. I'm torn between that and incompetence. I can't prove it, but I don't think my local dealers have ever seen this car. In 2017, when I wanted to buy it locally, they only thing they offered me was a C-Max Energi (which I had no interest in whatsoever). The repair report they gave me (for resetting the lifetime stats <eye-roll>) had a blurb that lumped together the Focus Electric with C-Max and Fusion Energi and mentioned 0-21 and 0-26 mile ranges. When I asked about it and said the FFE had a stated 115-mile range, they just acted like they knew that and they were all the same anyway.

When I called back and told them the charger still did not turn off, and asked if I could bring the car back, they said to hold off, because that might be something wrong with my charger. After that, I emailed a pic of my laptop screen showing the FORScan 19.9 kWh battery screen next to the car display panel showing 100% and also the cell voltage log. I waited a few hours and heard nothing back.

After I got tired of sitting around waiting, I took the car down to Carmax. I told the guy there I was interested in selling it, but I thought there was a problem with the battery. I was straight up with him. He just said, well that's how batteries are. They just don't hold a charge as well when they're old-- like a cellphone. Carmax appraised it and gave me an offer of $6000. I still hadn't heard anything from the Ford dealer, so I went over to Hyundai and bought an Ioniq 6, with a 340-mile range. Maybe I should have tried longer with Ford, but I was afraid even if I spent the next 5 months arguing with them, the warranty would run out, and I'd be stuck with something I couldn't drive. It said it could go 80 miles on a full charge now, but every time I drove it, I was afraid it was going to leave me stranded. I've been watching the Hyundai $7500 off deal, and it expires on Monday.

When I got home, there was an email from Ford asking if I could bring it in next week. Maybe the FORScan logs had gotten their attention, but it doesn't matter now. Somehow I had thought the service department would have something way better than FORScan and could tell right away what was going on, but I guess they don't. I wish the local service techs knew half as much about FFEs as you guys.

This Ioniq 6 is a cross between an FFE and a space ship. It's going to take some getting used to, and I hope the software is better than Boeing's! If I ever end up with extra garage space and time to learn about upgrading batteries, I'll get another FFE, because it was a great little car.

Thank you, Anti_Climax, jghall00, and Sftbldad for your help and advice.

 

[Brocktoon]

Do y’all just work with the dealers or is there’s a warranty number you can call at Ford?

My range has dropped to 25 miles on a full charge. 25 MILES. I took it into the dealer this summer when it had dropped to around 60 (it normally got at least 100 on a full charge) and found out after paying $400 for diagnostics that the compressor was bad and it would cost $4000 to repair.

I did not get that repair.

I purchased a Chevy Bolt and haven’t driven the FFE much since then because … 100-degree temps and no a/c. In fact, I just replaced the 12v battery on it for $200+ because it wouldn’t start.

My big battery is still under warranty until around June of 2025.

Not sure what to do. The FFE is just sitting in my garage. At 25 miles on a full charge, I don’t think anybody would give me anything for it and I’m not sure I could even safely get it to a dealership and back.

I’d like to try to initiate a warranty buyback, but I’m not sure how to proceed.

 

[Anti_Climax]

It's through the dealership and you don't really have the option to initiate a warranty buy back - if the vehicle has a failure in a warrantied component, the dealership engages Ford. Ford themselves may CHOOSE to offer you a buy back, but that's entirely up to them.

I can't imagine how the compressor could fail in such a way that it would drop 50-75% of your range. It would need to consume so much energy it would catch on fire. I would see if you can get ahold of an OBD reader and run your own check in ForScan.

You may need a new compressor but I have a feeling they just stopped looking once they found an expensive problem.

 

[Sftbldad]

It's through the dealership and you don't really have the option to initiate a warranty buy back - if the vehicle has a failure in a warrantied component, the dealership engages Ford. Ford themselves may CHOOSE to offer you a buy back, but that's entirely up to them.

I can't imagine how the compressor could fail in such a way that it would drop 50-75% of your range. It would need to consume so much energy it would catch on fire. I would see if you can get ahold of an OBD reader and run your own check in ForScan.

You may need a new compressor but I have a feeling they just stopped looking once they found an expensive problem.

Just fyi. Ford warranty buy back has there own dept. that makes decisions outside of the dealer. My car was repaired but the repurchase dept still offered a buy back.. It just takes a phone call to customer service to initiate a buy back request….

 

[Sftbldad]

Do y’all just work with the dealers or is there’s a warranty number you can call at Ford?

My range has dropped to 25 miles on a full charge. 25 MILES. I took it into the dealer this summer when it had dropped to around 60 (it normally got at least 100 on a full charge) and found out after paying $400 for diagnostics that the compressor was bad and it would cost $4000 to repair.

I did not get that repair.

I purchased a Chevy Bolt and haven’t driven the FFE much since then because … 100-degree temps and no a/c. In fact, I just replaced the 12v battery on it for $200+ because it wouldn’t start.

My big battery is still under warranty until around June of 2025.

Not sure what to do. The FFE is just sitting in my garage. At 25 miles on a full charge, I don’t think anybody would give me anything for it and I’m not sure I could even safely get it to a dealership and back.

I’d like to try to initiate a warranty buyback, but I’m not sure how to proceed.

The compressor should have nothing to do with an overnight charge. It only kicks in when the battery needs it and only at level 2 and 3 charging. Use your included 110 charging cord if it doesn’t make it to at least 80 miles your battery has issues. Call Ford customer service and request a buyback. Ford dealership is stopping at you ac compressor is not working and will go no further. But if your battery isn’t charging then you have bigger issues. It should be giving you a yellow wrench? Do you know the codes? My guess would be a battery variance code… and do you have a different dealership near you? Some have better qualified ev techs then others….