Anyone driving in L for extended periods seeing better range

[jmueller065]

I used the gliding method when pulling our camper over the mountains with our F-350. Can't really argue there because hitting the brakes in that instance has a 100% loss. It was all an exercise in managing your momentum. Coast down into the valley to get up enough speed to make it over the top of the next hill without having to give it a lot of gas.

In the FFE it is a bit different due to regen. I would guess that if you were to compare the two the energy loss would be the amount given up as heat when you are regen'ing (e.g. the X% that doesn't make it back into the battery while regen'ing).

 

[GladeStorm]

Don't forget about aerodynamic drag,... I'll use the roller coaster technique in our low traffic/ 30mph zones (plenty of those in the mountains of Tn), but at some point the losses due to increased drag will outweigh the inefficiency of the regen. I suspect that at highway speeds it's generally a wash.

 

[EVA]

Don't forget about aerodynamic drag,... I'll use the roller coaster technique in our low traffic/ 30mph zones (plenty of those in the mountains of Tn), but at some point the losses due to increased drag will outweigh the inefficiency of the regen. I suspect that at highway speeds it's generally a wash.

Oh that is an excellent point. There is a big difference in drag between 50 and 70 MPH.

 

[hybridbear]

50 to 70 MPH is a big difference in drag. But I'm talking about driving on freeways in the city where the speed limit is 55. I'll set my cruise at 55 and keep my foot lightly on the accelerator so that the car will coast down hills instead of braking. This means I'll often reach 58-60 MPH on downhill stretches. Then as the car slows down naturally the cruise control kicks back in at 55 MPH.

 

[SpecVStrom]

I started off my first 2 days of ownership driving in L, thinking it was the equivalent to Nissans Ecodrive.
Then I read in the manual that it is for the same reasons you use low in an ICE car. Long deceleration situations. The manual recommends D for better efficiency. I switched to D driving and I agree. I am now up to a 101 mile budget when I leave in the morning.

I used to drive very aggressively. This car is no doubt saving my life!

Cheers

 

[EVA]

The zen of driving an electric car. It is a great feeling.

 

[studio460]

. . . But I'm talking about driving on freeways in the city where the speed limit is 55. I'll set my cruise at 55 and keep my foot lightly on the accelerator so that the car will coast down hills instead of braking. This means I'll often reach 58-60 MPH on downhill stretches. Then as the car slows down naturally the cruise control kicks back in at 55 MPH.

That seems like a sound strategy, one I'll probably emulate. This was a very interesting thread. Based on everyone's input, I think I'll use 'D' mostly, and cruise-control as much as humanly/electrically possible. In my ICE-powered car, I use cruise-control at every practical opportunity (city streets, etc., including as a speed-trap avoidance tactic).

 

[studio460]

The zen of driving an electric car. It is a great feeling.

Yeah, I normally drive pretty fast nearly 100% of the time in my ICE-powered, V8 sedan, mainly because it's fun (though, I generally only drive a maximum of 9-14 MPH over the posted limit). I'm actually looking forward to driving at or below the posted speed limits in my FFE, and taking things at a slower pace for a change.

 

[hybridbear]

In my ICE-powered car, I use cruise-control at every practical opportunity (city streets, etc., including as a speed-trap avoidance tactic).

I did the same before when I also drove 5-10 MPH over the speed limit. Now I've been transformed by driving a hybrid for the last few years and now an EV. I no longer need cruise control in most situations to avoid speeding. When you consider how little is gained by those few extra MPH it all just seems silly. I now laugh when I see someone go racing by me in the left lane only to be stopped at the same red light up ahead. I also chuckle at the people who race by me on the freeway and then are stopped at the same red light as me at the top of the exit ramp.

Drive smarter, not faster.

 

[studio460]

Now that I have some miles under my belt (492 miles in just over seven days of ownership), I've been using 'L' just as I would use a low gear in any ICE vehicle, with either a manual or automatic transmission. This is how I drive my gas vehicle, even though it's an automatic, downshifting from overdrive, to 'L' to final braking. I don't care if it wears my piston rings "the wrong way;" it's fun.

But now that I'm more familiar with my new FFE, I've been using 'L' quite frequently: To throttle-back my speed in turns (anything to avoid braking), on right-turns on city streets when the light is green, on freeway transitions, etc. I also use it at every opportunity to slow my speed as I approach red lights and stop signs (too bad we don't have that auto-brake light feature--of course, I only do this when I have one eye on my rear-view mirror).

Someone mentioned how nice it would be to have a paddle-shifter for this--I agree. But, I don't see how driving in 'L' can be anything but less efficient than driving in 'D,' since you're expending energy against increased resistance (and, as someone mentioned, the re-capture of that energy can't be 100% efficient). The hill-momentum argument, I would like a firmer answer on, however (I'm leaning toward the bicycle example).

 

[jmueller065]

I've been using 'L' quite frequently: To throttle-back my speed in turns (anything to avoid braking)

Keep in mind, though, that the FFE will automatically use regen braking when you step on the brake pedal as well.

In fact, if you don't hit it to hard, simply pressing the brake pedal to slow down for a turn will achieve the same result as "downshifting" into L. The FFE does a pretty good job all on its own at maximizing regen (whatch the "circle" thingy over the battery when you hit the brake).

(I can see this discussion being one of those endless forum discussions though: People sticking to their guns. "No L is better", "No just use the brake you are doing the same thing!" LOL.)

The brake pads on the thing will last for the life of the car as it rarely uses the friction brakes (at least that I've noticed). Only when it drops below about 10 mph do the friction brakes kick in.

 

[NightHawk]

I thought the main purpose of the "L" mode was only for extended driving down a long downhill grade?

 

[tinilk]

I thought the main purpose of the "L" mode was only for extended driving down a long downhill grade?

The manual at least doesn't say so -- page 149 says:
"L(Low)
- Provides maximum motor braking.
- Is not intended for use under extended or normal driving conditions and results in less miles per charge.
- The transmission may be shifted into L (Low) at any vehicle speed."

I switched to the FFE from a stick shift, and I tend to drive in L gear in traffic as a replacement for downshifting and engine braking. I really like it; the lack of engine braking in a normal automatic is a pet peeve of mine.

I interpret the "not intended for extended or normal driving conditions" as meaning that if you drive in L gear the same way you drive in D, it'll be less efficient. However, I try to drive like 'unplugged' described earlier in the thread -- I modulate my foot to keep it between accel and regen while coasting.

 

[jonessoda]

I've been using 'L' quite frequently: To throttle-back my speed in turns (anything to avoid braking)

Keep in mind, though, that the FFE will automatically use regen braking when you step on the brake pedal as well.

In fact, if you don't hit it to hard, simply pressing the brake pedal to slow down for a turn will achieve the same result as "downshifting" into L. The FFE does a pretty good job all on its own at maximizing regen (whatch the "circle" thingy over the battery when you hit the brake).

(I can see this discussion being one of those endless forum discussions though: People sticking to their guns. "No L is better", "No just use the brake you are doing the same thing!" LOL.)

The brake pads on the thing will last for the life of the car as it rarely uses the friction brakes (at least that I've noticed). Only when it drops below about 10 mph do the friction brakes kick in.

Yes, but L automatically uses maximum regeneration. When you use the brake, you may also be able to achieve maximum regeneration, but there is a delay (lifting gas --> pushing brake) as well as getting into the friction brakes if you don't need/want to. When I'm driving in L, all I have to do is lift off the gas and I'm in max regen instantly. If I need more braking then that, then I go for the brakes. I use L for driving in traffic and coming to gradual stops. In fact, I've only ever used the friction brakes to bring the car to a complete stop once the regeneration is ineffective.

Using L in traffic is fantastic. I get much better efficiency since I can virtually coast my way through the entire process. I've gotten usage averages in the 170's wh/mi from doing this. For normal freeway driving, though, I use D since I do like to coast frequently and do not require maximum regen.

* I should note that you should always cover your brake when coasting so that you can respond quickly to emergencies.

 

[WattsUp]

When I'm driving in L, all I have to do is lift off the gas and I'm in max regen instantly.

You have a misconception. L is not max regen. L is simply more default regen than D.

More regen is available by pressing the brake pedal (but not enough to activate the friction brakes). The brake coach will let you know if you're doing it right.

 

[jonessoda]

When I'm driving in L, all I have to do is lift off the gas and I'm in max regen instantly.

You have a misconception. L is not max regen. L is simply more default regen than D.

More regen is available by pressing the brake pedal (but not enough to activate the friction brakes). The brake coach will let you know if you're doing it right.

The manual says "maximum motor braking" for L. Is that different?

 

[WattsUp]

When I'm driving in L, all I have to do is lift off the gas and I'm in max regen instantly.

You have a misconception. L is not max regen. L is simply more default regen than D.

More regen is available by pressing the brake pedal (but not enough to activate the friction brakes). The brake coach will let you know if you're doing it right.

The manual says "maximum motor braking" for L. Is that different?

Yes, they just mean it's the "maximum" motor braking available through the "gear" shift (e.g., the higher level of regen programmed for the L setting versus the D setting). There is motor braking available in D too, but it is a lot less than L. D is the minimum, L is the maximum.

In any case, the D and L settings are just software configurations designed to mimic the gearing and engine braking effects of a normal ICE car. But, the L setting is not equivalent to the "maximum regeneration possible" for the car. It is just a particular (strong-ish) level of regeneration.

Again, even higher levels regeneration occur when you press the brake (until the mechanical pads engage). This is beyond the level of regeneration that occurs merely coasting in L.

If the car could truly do "maximum regeneration" when you lifted your foot of the acceleration pedal, the effect would be quite jarring. The car would slow down very quickly, almost like slamming on the brakes. It has been tuned (both in D and L) to be quite gentle.

 

[jonessoda]

Yes, they just mean it's the "maximum" motor braking available (e.g., the higher level of regen programmed for the L setting versus the D setting). The is motor braking available in D, but it is a lot less than L.

In any case, the D and L settings are just software configurations designed to mimic the gearing and engine braking effects of a normal ICE car. But, the L setting is not equivalent "maximum regeneration possible". It is just a particular level of regeneration.

Again, even higher levels regeneration occur when you press the brake (until the mechanical pads engage). This is beyond the level of regeneration that occurs merely coasting in L.

I believe you, it's just weird for them to say maximum motor braking when there is more motor braking available by using the brake pedal, that would lead me to believe that it isn't the maximum. I don't get why they say it is the maximum if it isn't.

 

[WattsUp]

I believe you, it's just weird for them to say maximum motor braking when there is more motor braking available by using the brake pedal, that would lead me to believe that it isn't the maximum. I don't get why they say it is the maximum if it isn't.

I can see how it might be a misleading phrasing. They just mean to indicate that it's the strongest setting for motor braking (i.e., default level of regeneration when coasting) available through the gear selector.

But, the braking effects of regeneration (the resistance of the motor acting as a generator) is a much wider continuum that is fully software-controlled through the inputs of the gear shift and brake pedal.

When braking normally (moderately slowing down, say coming up to a light, such that the Brake Coach says 100%), the brake pads are not engaged until the very last moment, basically to hold the car still. This is why the pads will last the lifetime of the car; they are barely used. And, clearly, that kind of a braking is significantly more than be achieved coasting in L.

 

[jonessoda]

I believe you, it's just weird for them to say maximum motor braking when there is more motor braking available by using the brake pedal, that would lead me to believe that it isn't the maximum. I don't get why they say it is the maximum if it isn't.

I can see how it might be a misleading phrasing. They just mean to indicate that it's the strongest setting for motor braking (i.e., default level of regeneration when coasting) available through the gear selector.

But, the braking effects of regeneration (the resistance of the motor acting as a generator) is a much wider continuum that is fully software-controlled through the inputs of the gear shift and brake pedal.

When braking normally (moderately slowing down, say coming up to a light, such that the Brake Coach says 100%), the brake pads are not engaged until the very last moment, basically to hold the car still. This is why the pads will last the lifetime of the car; they are barely used. And, clearly, that kind of a braking is significantly more than be achieved coasting in L.

Gotcha. I feel like this is similar to the 100% regen actually meaning ~60% regen.

That's good to know, too, thanks for the explanation. In my Fusion, while smooth in transition, it was still pretty obvious when the friction brakes took over. With the FFE, I have been having a harder time detecting it, due in part to the friction brakes only kicking in for the actual stop (as you explained). That means I can be a little more liberal with the brakes when coming to a stop, instead of trying to coast all the way in L since I assumed any further braking while in L would be the friction brakes. I wish there were a "not dumbed down" version of the manual, it's starting to make me feel stupid. :mrgreen: