Blink charging rate change...

[jonessoda]

I went to charge the Focus at Fashion Valley mall in San Diego today, and got a little surprise. Firstly, the charger didn't work, which seems to be a common issue around here. Secondly, they now charge per kwH to the tune of $0.49. What the flying f***?! That's the cost of electricity for me at my house during on peak times, which I would never charge during. It makes it more expensive per mile than driving the Fusion hybrid I traded in for this car.

I'm pretty mad about this. That means no more charging out in town, unless it's the harder to find ChargePoint charger that still have competitive rates.

So now that EVs are starting to become more common, I guess it's time to start gouging people?

 

[hybridbear]

Most of the EVSE stations around here are not free. The only ones I know of that are free are all Goodwill locations and all Byerly's stores. Most of the pay stations that I've looked at on ChargePoint's website are a minimum of $0.30/kWh plus the access fee which is often $2.00. Others charge an hourly rate of $1.50-$2.00 per hour. We do not plan to use any pay stations. We have charged the Energi at the free ones quite a bit in order to make it all the way home without using gas. Byerly's is also right across the street from our apartment so if something ever happens where our EVSE quits working or we need to charge both cars at once we can drive one across the street to Byerly's to charge for free there. The fact that Byerly's has added EVSEs at a number of their locations has made us more likely to buy groceries there.

 

[jonessoda]

It used to cost $1.00 an hour, and most of the ChargePoint ones still cost that, which is closer to what I pay to charge at home. Why the hell would I drive a car that can only go 80 miles and costs more per mile than one with a 500+ mile range? Are people ok with this?

 

[WattsUp]

So now that EVs are starting to become more common, I guess it's time to start gouging people?

They're a business and will charge what the market will bear.

Also, public charging stations are a convenience... with a commensurate "convenience fee". They aren't meant to be "the" way to charge your car, nor the cheapest way. That's what your home EVSE is for.

That said, I'm all for lower rates. Perhaps an increased prevalence of home charging over time will force public stations to lower their prices.

 

[EVA]

I can see the reason you're upset right now. Something that was free now costs money.

Realistically, what did you expect though? As WattsUp said, it is a business. Somebody has to pay for the installation and the electricity. It isn't as if ChargePoint or Blink are charities, they eventually have to make money.

Now how can they make money? They can charge the businesses where the stations are installed. That's one plan. One that Hybridbear described - Byerly installed them to draw business. They make up the cost of electricity and the charge station in store profit. When Whole Foods had charging stations, I used to shop there all the time. I spent a lot more money than I would have ever spent without the stations. In fact I even ate lunch there while charging my car. Now that the stations are gone - I don't go there anymore.

You might also be feeling the pain because Teslas charge free. Well they don't charge free. That purchase price included a bunch of money to install the network and the electricity to charge the cars. Owners of the car paid for that service. It isn't net free by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[jonessoda]

I can see the reason you're upset right now. Something that was free now costs money.

Realistically, what did you expect though? As WattsUp said, it is a business. Somebody has to pay for the installation and the electricity. It isn't as if ChargePoint or Blink are charities, they eventually have to make money.

Now how can they make money? They can charge the businesses where the stations are installed. That's one plan. One that Hybridbear described - Byerly installed them to draw business. They make up the cost of electricity and the charge station in store profit. When Whole Foods had charging stations, I used to shop there all the time. I spent a lot more money than I would have ever spent without the stations. In fact I even ate lunch there while charging my car. Now that the stations are gone - I don't go there anymore.

You might also be feeling the pain because Teslas charge free. Well they don't charge free. That purchase price included a bunch of money to install the network and the electricity to charge the cars. Owners of the car paid for that service. It isn't net free by any stretch of the imagination.

A $1.00 an hour isn't free, that's what I said they used to cost. They haven't been free as long as I've had an electric car. I don't mind paying to charge, I mind paying more than it costs to drive a gas car to charge.

So now that EVs are starting to become more common, I guess it's time to start gouging people?

They're a business and will charge what the market will bear.

Also, public charging stations are a convenience... with a commensurate "convenience fee". They aren't meant to be "the" way to charge your car, nor the cheapest way. That's what your home EVSE is for.

That said, I'm all for lower rates. Perhaps an increased prevalence of home charging over time will force public stations to lower their prices.

I don't expect it to be the only way to charge my car, but these people are high if they think it's ok to charge more than it costs to drive a gas car. If this is how it is going to be, then I'll never charge anywhere but home.

 

[Abelgoddard]

I wasn't happy when I got the email from Blink about the rate change, but mainly because the way it seemed to be worded was that it would be better for the consumer, though it pretty clearly wasn't. Beyond that, I really don't care a whole lot. I have yet to pay for a charge, but I recognize that when I eventually do, it'll be because I have to have that charge to get home, and the few dollars it'll cost won't break me.

But, I sure do wish there were a lot more stations in DFW. As it is, when I'm looking at my travel distance and charging possibilities, it's awfully difficult. Most often, I look at where I'm going and try to find the nearest chargers, but they're almost never a realistic walking distance from my destination, and there aren't even any convenient places to hang out nearby while I charge, in case I have to stop before heading home. That's for all networks, too, not just Blink.

 

[WattsUp]

I don't expect it to be the only way to charge my car, but these people are high if they think it's ok to charge more than it costs to drive a gas car. If this is how it is going to be, then I'll never charge anywhere but home.

I understand why you're upset. But, what do you mean by "these people" and "if they think it's ok"? They're running a business and they will charge whatever they can get. You may not like their prices, but there is nothing wrong with what they are doing.

Movie theaters "think it's okay" to charge exorbitant prices for popcorn that would cost you mere cents to make at home. But, moviegoers pay the ridiculous prices because of the convenience. Granted, there is also a bit of a captive audience effect at work... but the same could be said for public charging stations: It's there, you need it, you pay.

Same goes for paid parking. Technically, it is sort of "crazy" to pay $3, $5... $10 per hour to temporarily occupy a cement pad with your car (way, way more than you pay at home to park in your own garage). How do "those people" (paid garage owners) "think it's ok" to charge so much more than it costs people to park at home?! Well, they think their garage is located downtown, conveniently next to places that people with cars really want to be.

 

[michael]

In my opinion, public charging stations are mainly for convenience and for emergency type use. They are not equivalent to home charging. Free public charging causes the freeloaders to squat on the stations because "it's free...why shouldn't I take it?". By charging, operators not only make the stations economically justifiable, but they also make the stations available to those who need them.

Look at a park and ride or a metrolink station with "free public charging". The same people squat on the charging positions day after day, and they are unavailable to those who need a charge to make it to a destination.

 

[pjam3]

It cost me $2.26 the other day for a little under an hour. And the machine seemed to be very slow as I only went from 18 miles up to 31 miles. So $2.26 for less than an hour and adding 13 miles is kind of pointless. It is what it is and if you look at the costs after awhile, cars like the FFE aren't cheaper than an ICE FFE.

Yeah if you barely use it and just go to work and back home on some short commute, it works great. But if you want to use it like a real car, it fails miserably. And if these charging stations become $2 per hour or more and are slow to charge, you just won't go anywhere or you won't be able to.

I mean a simple weekend at the beach that is 40 miles one way, becomes a trip you can't make. Or you'll wind up paying for to charge the Electric than it would cost for gas in some hybrid car. It's easy to say the FFE gets better mileage than some gas guzzling SUV, but nobody ever uses a FFE vs a Prius Hybrid because it kind of makes the argument pointless.

 

[hybridbear]

I mean a simple weekend at the beach that is 40 miles one way, becomes a trip you can't make. Or you'll wind up paying for to charge the Electric than it would cost for gas in some hybrid car. It's easy to say the FFE gets better mileage than some gas guzzling SUV, but nobody ever uses a FFE vs a Prius Hybrid because it kind of makes the argument pointless.

1) I've made 85-90 mile round trips in the FFE with no issues driving 65 MPH on the interstate the entire way. It's not an issue.

2) We replaced a GenIII Prius with the FFE and are paying half what we paid previously per mile.

 

[WattsUp]

1) I've made 85-90 mile round trips in the FFE with no issues driving 65 MPH on the interstate the entire way. It's not an issue.

This sounds a little unbelievable. What was your average Wh/mi for such a trip?

By my calculations, an 85-mile round trip on 18.5 kWh of usable charge would require an energy consumption of only about 215 Wh/mi. But, it would seem unrealistic to maintain 65 mph pulling that little power. That's the energy consumption you see for more like 50 mph or so.

When I do freeway-based round-trips at 60-65 mph, about the furthest I can comfortably go is 70 miles.

Are you doing something special? I'd be very interested in hearing how you achieve 215 Wh/mi at 65 mph.

 

[hybridbear]

1) I've made 85-90 mile round trips in the FFE with no issues driving 65 MPH on the interstate the entire way. It's not an issue.

This sounds a little unbelievable. What was your average Wh/mi for such a trip?

By my calculations, an 85-mile round trip on 18.5 kWh of usable charge would require an energy consumption of only about 215 Wh/mi. But, it would seem unrealistic to maintain 65 mph pulling that little power. That's the energy consumption you see for more like 50 mph or so.

When I do freeway-based round-trips at 60-65 mph, about the furthest I can comfortably go is 70 miles.

Are you doing something special? I'd be very interested in hearing how you achieve 215 Wh/mi at 65 mph.

http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1971&start=60#p12487
41 miles at 65 MPH on cruise control at 217 Wh/mi. On the outbound trip I was concerned about range so I took back roads for about 15 miles of the 41 and averaged 212 Wh/mi. I returned home with more than 10 miles showing on the GOM after driving 83 miles and using 17.8 kWh. Perhaps the ETE at the start was higher than 18.5 kWh because having 0.7 kWh left wouldn't yield a range estimate greater than 10 miles like I had.

In the Fusion Hybrid I could make that trip using about 1.75 gallons of gasoline or 59 kWh of gasoline (about 47-48 MPG). Considering that the MPGe of the Focus was 155 (217 Wh/mi converted to MPGe) and more than triple the efficiency of the Fusion Hybrid I would expect it to use less than 1/3 of the electricity and that's exactly what happened.

My average speed for the trip was around 44 MPH because of city driving when exiting the freeway at each end, although the distance from freeway entrance to destination is less than 1 mile at each end, the rest of the time is freeway.

 

[WattsUp]

My average speed for the trip was around 44 MPH because of city driving when exiting the freeway at each end, although the distance from freeway entrance to destination is less than 1 mile at each end, the rest of the time is freeway.

This is still not making sense. If you traveled about 81 miles (out of the 83-mile round-trip) at freeway speeds (65 mph) and the final 2 miles (at each end) at city speeds (around 30 mph, I'm guessing), there is no way your average speed could be 44 mph due just to the city driving. It seems like the freeway drive must have been at speeds much lower than 65 mph. If that's the case, then 217 Wh/mi is making more sense.

 

[hybridbear]

My average speed for the trip was around 44 MPH because of city driving when exiting the freeway at each end, although the distance from freeway entrance to destination is less than 1 mile at each end, the rest of the time is freeway.

This is still not making sense. If you traveled about 81 miles (out of the 83-mile round-trip) at freeway speeds (65 mph) and the final 2 miles (at each end) at city speeds (around 30 mph, I'm guessing), there is no way your average speed could be 44 mph due just to the city driving. It seems like the freeway drive must have been at speeds much lower than 65 mph. If that's the case, then 217 Wh/mi is making more sense.

City speeds are very low. It takes more than 5 minutes to get 6 blocks from our apartment to the freeway plus another 5 minutes sitting waiting on the ramp for the meters.

 

[WattsUp]

City speeds are very low. It takes more than 5 minutes to get 6 blocks from our apartment to the freeway plus another 5 minutes sitting waiting on the ramp for the meters.

I see, but then the car is hardly using any power for those two, very slow miles. We can just discount them and move on to figuring out, how, for the remaining 81 miles at 65 mph, you manage to use only 217 Wh/mi.

Sorry to sound incredulous, but none of this is aligning with any of my experience with the car (after nearly two years of ownership). The numbers you're quoting sound almost magical.

Are you over-inflating the tires? Are you power-drafting behind big-rigs the entire way? Was there a strong tailwind?

 

[hybridbear]

City speeds are very low. It takes more than 5 minutes to get 6 blocks from our apartment to the freeway plus another 5 minutes sitting waiting on the ramp for the meters.

I see, but then the car is hardly using any power for those two, very slow miles. We can just discount them and move on to figuring out, how, for the remaining 81 miles at 65 mph, you manage to use only 217 Wh/mi.

Sorry to sound incredulous, but none of this is aligning with any of my experience with the car (after nearly two years of ownership). The numbers you're quoting sound almost magical.

Are you over-inflating the tires? Are you power-drafting behind big-rigs the entire way? Was there a strong tailwind?

My tires are inflated to 45 PSI. My Lifetime Wh/mi is 199 in about 200 miles now. My Wh/mi in city driving is frequently less than 170.

 

[WattsUp]

My tires are inflated to 45 PSI. My Lifetime Wh/mi is 199 in about 200 miles now. My Wh/mi in city driving is frequently less than 170.

Ah... mine are at the recommended 38 PSI. Does the extra 7 PSI make that much difference?

Are you running the stock tires? And the over-inflation isn't causing any abnormal wear patterns?

 

[hybridbear]

My tires are inflated to 45 PSI. My Lifetime Wh/mi is 199 in about 200 miles now. My Wh/mi in city driving is frequently less than 170.

Ah... mine are at the recommended 38 PSI. Does the extra 7 PSI make that much difference?

Are you running the stock tires? And the over-inflation isn't causing any abnormal wear patterns?

No wear issues. Original tires.

 

[WattsUp]

No wear issues. Original tires.

Interesting, maybe I'll give it a try and see how much difference I see.