Car is bricked!

[hybridbear]

I think leaving the FFE on a level 2 charger will not run the battery down. I had my FFE plugged in at the airport from monday to friday on a Charge Point public charging station. When I returned to the vehicle I found no problems.

That's a pretty short trip though. If you went weeks then you might see problems.

 

[jmueller065]

There is a solution though, even for weeks. I've tested it. Its called "go times".

Set the go times for 2 or 3 times a week with the HVAC off (like Mon, Wed, Fri mornings at 8:00am or so). When the car executes the go-time it turns on the DC-DC converter and charges the battery for the 10-20 minutes its running.

We went away for a week and I left the go times on set for two days during that week--all was well. Granted I've left the car with no go times set and plugged in for a week as well without any issues so my "test" isn't that conclusive LOL.

I'll have to remember to check the 12V battery voltage the next time my car does the go time. I know the HVB contactors kick in--those are easy to detect.

 

[NightHawk]

My car had to be towed to the dealer twice for a dead 12V battery. Dead because I left it plugged in for 2 days and didn't drive it. After that TSB programming was applied, the car never did it again.

My 2014 FFE got this same problem yesterday after I left it plugged in to my EVSE overnight with the car's HV battery already fully charged.
12+ hours later the 12v battery was discharged to <11v and I had to charge it with my external Sears 12v charger.
In contrast, the 12v battery will stay above 12v if I leave the car unplugged without driving for a week.
So my FFE may need the TSB-13-9-19 to fix that problem like it did for your 2014 FFE?

 

[EVA]

Sounds like it Nighthawk.

 

[NightHawk]

Sounds like it Nighthawk.

Do you have any links to documentation on TSB-13-9-19 that I can show to the Ford dealer service department so I can get it done quickly?
I hope I can also get them to do a free swap for a new 12v battery too since its been discharged very low a few times now and might be weakened.

 

[studio460]

Our FFEs are new enough that they shouldn't need the TSB flash, I would assume. I just bricked my car yesterday. The car was charging all night, then I drove it on a six-block errand, then re-plugged my Level 2 EVSE back in. The next day--no 12V accessory power. Multiple "start" button pushes seemed to indicate a dead 12V battery. Yellow wrench icon appeared on the dash, and the "shutting down power to conserve battery" message showed on the main display.

After cycling power a couple of times, I did get the RTD symbol to light up, and was able to drive the car, but I had no radio, no nav, no AC, no power windows, etc. I drove all the way to work like that (assuming the drive would re-charge the 12V battery). When I arrived at work, I re-booted the car, and plugged in my 120V EVSE, then everything returned to normal.

 

[hybridbear]

Sounds like it Nighthawk.

Do you have any links to documentation on TSB-13-9-19 that I can show to the Ford dealer service department so I can get it done quickly?
I hope I can also get them to do a free swap for a new 12v battery too since its been discharged very low a few times now and might be weakened.

If you post your VIN (or PM it to me if you're concerned about privacy) I can look your car up in OASIS to find the TSB. Since build dates matter for that search it'd be better to search with your specific VIN and not just any 2014 VIN or my 2013 VIN.

 

[NightHawk]

If you post your VIN (or PM it to me if you're concerned about privacy) I can look your car up in OASIS to find the TSB. Since build dates matter for that search it'd be better to search with your specific VIN and not just any 2014 VIN or my 2013 VIN.

Thanks - I will PM you my car's VIN for TSB checking.

 

[NightHawk]

Sounds like it Nighthawk.

EVA - so you can confirm that you had the TSB-13-9-19 applied at a Ford dealer to your 2014 FFE several months ago and since then you have never had a problem with 12V batter discharge even when plugged into an EVSE overnight or days at a time?
Many assume the 2014 FFEs should already have had all the previous TSBs performed before delivery, but this seems to show thats not the case?

 

[hybridbear]

Here is the TSB:

 

[NightHawk]

I noted the problem again today.
I tested with my FFE nearly fully charged (99%) - I plugged in the EVSE connector and monitored the 12v voltage at the accessory port.
Initially it was 12.9V, but after about 3 hours leaving the car plugged in but not charging (car in off mode, all lights and accessories off), the voltage had dropped down to 11.8V.
That was still enough to start the car, but if I had left it longer (like overnight) it would have probably kept discharging the 12v battery as happened a couple days ago for me.
In contrast I can leave the car unplugged in OFF mode for days and the 12v battery stays above 12.5V
So for now I'm not going to leave the car plugged in unless its actively charging the HV battery.

Hopefully the TSB may resolve this issue in the near future if I can get the Ford dealer to do that.

 

[studio460]

I just received the same $5.99 12V meter from Amazon that you bought, and it's great! Since it was sold by another vendor, there was no sales tax, yet it still qualified for free, two-day Amazon Prime shipping. It's actually smaller than it appears in the picture (actually, a good thing), and it looks great!

In fact, I would recommend this particular 12V meter to every FFE owner--it's a nice looking addition to the car. When plugged into the main 12V outlet on the center console, it's positioned very nicely, and the red LED display is easily viewed from the driver's seat. What do you think the nominal battery voltage should be when parked and not charging? I'm just wondering what the minimum voltage required is to start the car. Mine is sitting at 12.8V right now.

 

[NightHawk]

In fact, I would recommend this particular 12V meter to every FFE owner--it's a nice looking addition to the car. When plugged into the main 12V outlet on the center console, it's positioned very nicely, and the red LED display is easily viewed from the driver's seat. What do you think the nominal battery voltage should be when parked and not charging? I'm just wondering what the minimum voltage required is to start the car. Mine is sitting at 12.8V right now.

Yep I can easily view the meter from outside the car looking in thru the window on either side.
In my garage I leave the driver side window rolled down and in OFF mode I can reach in press the start button a couple times and that turns on the 12v for less than a minute, long enough to read the meter for a quick check.

I'm getting 12.9V in OFF mode right after the car was in drive mode or remote start mode for 15min. In accessory mode I get ~13.3V and in drive mode I get ~14.5V. When the HV battery is being charged with my L2 EVSE plugged in, I get ~13.3V so its only doing a weak trickle charging in that mode. Full 12v battery charging only occurs in (ready to) drive mode, also in remote start mode, with the higher ~14.5V. I found setting remote start mode to use "last settings" for climate control and having climate control OFF when I turn off the car, allows me to issue a remote start (either via the FOB or website/smartphone app) which will charge the 12v battery for 15min without turning on the climate control system.

For mine, the voltage will gradually go down to 12.6V after a day in off mode and 12.3-12.4V if left in OFF mode for a few days. But perhaps my 12v battery is slightly weakened (due to being discharged a couple times this past month) so it would be good to hear results from others, perhaps your 12 battery might hold its voltage/charge longer than mine for days in OFF mode. Now that you have the easy to read meter installed, please post your results over a few days.

The couple times I had the 12v battery discharge issue, it wouldn't go into ready to drive mode below around 11V. It did start one time when it was down to ~11.8V. So I'm trying to monitor each day and always catch it if it gets down too low and before it goes below 12.0V, just doing a remote start for 15min once or twice will charge it pretty well if you don't drive it daily. If it gets down too low than an external 12v battery charger/jumper is good to have around for emergencies.

 

[studio460]

I'll post any relevant findings here. Current readings are similar to yours. I think I bricked my FFE by confusing the charging ECU by plugging in when still fully charged. Recall, I went on an extremely short errand, then re-plugged into my Level 2 EVSE at home. The charging lights came on, on both the FFE and the EVSE for a minute or so. Then, 12 hours later (while still plugged-in), the FFE's 12V system was dead.

 

[NightHawk]

I'll post any relevant findings here. Current readings are similar to yours. I think I bricked my FFE by confusing the charging ECU by plugging in when still fully charged. Recall, I went on an extremely short errand, then re-plugged in to my Level 2 EVSE at home. The charging lights came on, on both the FFE and the EVSE for a minute. Then, 12 hours later (while still plugged-in), the FFE was dead.

That sounds like what has happened to me a couple times in the month I've owned my new 2014 FFE.
I discovered if I plug in the EVSE when the car is already fully charged (98-100%) and leave it plugged in overnight, the 12v battery will discharge. After about 3 hours it was down to 11.8V, still enough to start the car. But after over 12 hours it was discharged down to 10V or less, so I did a full charge with my external Sears 12v battery charger when that happened. I confirmed if I plug it into my L2 EVSE when the HV battery is not fully charged, say 50% it would charge it and after that the EVSE would properly go to sleep and the 12v battery did not discharge even if left plugged in for over 2 full days - I just tested that the last few days.

So if that happened to you, just need to jump start the battery or preferably use a 12v external battery charger for a few hours. According to another forum member he also had this same issue months ago with a 2014 FFE but after having a Ford dealer perform the TSB-13-9-19 he hasn't had that problem since then. Its easy enough to avoid though by not leaving the car plugged into the EVSE if the HV battery is at or near full charge already when you plugged it in - its possibly OK to leave it plugged in indefinitely if the HV battery needed a charge when you first plugged it in, just don't unplug it until you need to drive it in that case or leave it unplugged until it needs a charge.

I have noticed that on my Schneider L2 EVSE after completing a charge cycle (about 2 hours if I started it at ~40% SOC) the indicator lights on the EVSE indicating charging activity will go off completely like its unplugged. But if I plugged it in when the car didn't need a charge, it would keep on flashing for hours - like it didn't get a proper signal from the car to go to sleep, maybe it only does that at the end of a charge cycle, not if no charge cycle actually begins like if the car is at or near a full charge?

 

[studio460]

Yes, it seems to be a very specific problem. I'll try re-create the fault condition again sometime soon.

12.6V-12.8V = "off" (unplugged).
12.6V-12.8V = "off" (plugged into a Level 2 EVSE, but not charging).
14.4V-14.6V = "on" (ready-to-drive).

 

[studio460]

12.6V = After parking from 2.9-mile, 0.9 kWh-drive (starting from 100% charge), and plugging into Level 2 EVSE, but not charging (set to value charge).
12.3V = Voltage drop of 0.3V, after two hours plugged into Level 2 EVSE undisturbed; 23-minute value charge had completed (currently, not charging).
12.6V = Voltage increases back to nominal within a few seconds after unlocking and re-locking door at same two-hour mark; EVSE begins blinking, indicating "charging" status.

 

[NightHawk]

I drove a few miles for errands yesterday afternoon and when I got home my FFE was down to 90%, so I tried plugging in to my L2 EVSE and it charged to 100% in 20min.
I left it plugged in overnight and after 12 hours the 12v level was 12.6V, so it appears the problem of discharging the 12v battery left plugged in is definitely only if the HV battery level is very close to 100% when its plugged in and left in for hours.

 

[hybridbear]

I'll post any relevant findings here. Current readings are similar to yours. I think I bricked my FFE by confusing the charging ECU by plugging in when still fully charged. Recall, I went on an extremely short errand, then re-plugged in to my Level 2 EVSE at home. The charging lights came on, on both the FFE and the EVSE for a minute. Then, 12 hours later (while still plugged-in), the FFE was dead.

That sounds like what has happened to me a couple times in the month I've owned my new 2014 FFE.
I discovered if I plug in the EVSE when the car is already fully charged (98-100%) and leave it plugged in overnight, the 12v battery will discharge. After about 3 hours it was down to 11.8V, still enough to start the car. But after over 12 hours it was discharged down to 10V or less, so I did a full charge with my external Sears 12v battery charger when that happened. I confirmed if I plug it into my L2 EVSE when the HV battery is not fully charged, say 50% it would charge it and after that the EVSE would properly go to sleep and the 12v battery did not discharge even if left plugged in for over 2 full days - I just tested that the last few days.

That's very interesting. Having two EVs we're often plugging one car in when it's fully charged for the purpose of Go Times. We have never had any battery drain issues in either car. There have been a number of occasions where the Focus was fully charged on a Sunday, unplugged to charge the Fusion and the plugged back in again once we left to go someplace in the Fusion. Often the Focus is then left plugged in overnight Sunday night even though it is fully charged so that the Go Time will precondition the cabin on Monday morning. The Fusion is then plugged in when my wife leaves for work in the Focus and is left plugged in until Tuesday morning. This has been our usual routine and we have not had any issues with the 12V discharging in the Focus.

 

[studio460]

Cool! So, now we can jump-start our batteries from an iPhone? Let us know if it will actually start the car!