Ford not pushing sales in some states.

[jeffand]

I recently attended the Milwaukee auto show. Ford had on display thier two plug in hybrids, but the Focus electric was know where in sight. When the new auto show comes to your area please let us know if the FFE is on display.

 

[jmueller065]

There was one prominently displayed at the "big" Detroit Auto Show (NAIAS) back in January:

Ironically: GM did not show any Spark EVs at the show (it is supposed to be an "International" show you'd think they would show everything).

 

[timf]

NAIAS is certainly the exception and not the rule when it comes to showing electric vehicles. Toyota even had their Rav4 EV on the floor (with a decoy HYBRID license plate that I commented about and the rep sheepishly covered up) which they've made clear they don't want to sell or service outside of California. It's the only show Tesla attends as well.

Most auto shows are put on by local dealers with stock from their inventories. The Energi models are readily stocked, but the Focus Electric is special and they have little incentive to promote them. Aside from shows in California, it is no surprise they don't have it on display.

 

[jachady]

I was disappointed as well. I would have offered mine to be there if I knew ahead of time they weren't going to have one. I was happy to see the Energi's there and the fact that there were people interested in them. I must say the Ford booth was the best looking one.

 

[pjam3]

It's about customers. Most people are going to look at the Energi or C-Max over the FFE. It's a nice toy car for most people, but it's hard to have your only car or main car be a car that gets about 80 miles on a charge and then needs about 4+ hours to charge it back up again.

There are places like California where the Electric car market is popular, but then again, most of the people who have electric cars have a couple of other cars as well that aren't electric.

Ford is going to push cars that most people buy. At this point, most people aren't buying Electric cars that'll get them 80 miles. So why would a dealer promote it ? Most of their customers will just think it's cool, but never be interested in it.

 

[WattsUp]

it's hard to have your only car or main car be a car that gets about 80 miles on a charge and then needs about 4+ hours to charge it back up again.

For some people it might be "hard". For most people, it is easier than they think. Most people drive well under 80 miles per day and have plenty of time to charge at night.

Yes, the occasional road-trip scenario may be a deal-killer for some (and irrationally so, I think), but the road trip isn't actually what your "main car" gets used for most of the time. For most people, their main car takes them about 30 miles around town per day... day-in, day-out. The FFE is a great main car for doing that.

My FFE is my main car.

At this point, most people aren't buying Electric cars that'll get them 80 miles. So why would a dealer promote it?

Yeah, nobody is buying Leafs. Oh wait...

 

[pjam3]

it's hard to have your only car or main car be a car that gets about 80 miles on a charge and then needs about 4+ hours to charge it back up again.

For some people it might be "hard". For most people, it is easier than they think. Most people drive well under 80 miles per day and have plenty of time to charge at night.

Yes, the occasional road-trip scenario may be a deal-killer for some (and irrationally so, I think), but the road trip isn't actually what your "main car" gets used for most of the time. For most people, their main car takes them about 30 miles around town per day... day-in, day-out. The FFE is a great main car for doing that.

My FFE is my main car.

At this point, most people aren't buying Electric cars that'll get them 80 miles. So why would a dealer promote it?

Yeah, nobody is buying Leafs. Oh wait...

"Last year, the 96,000 plug-in electric cars sold in the U.S. represented a bit more than half a percent of the total market of 16.5 million vehicles."

Wait for what? 96,000 cars out of 16.5 million sold is not a number any of these companies are going to go bonkers over. Ford and the like are interested in what will sell to most consumers. Not to less than 1 percent.

 

[pjam3]

it's hard to have your only car or main car be a car that gets about 80 miles on a charge and then needs about 4+ hours to charge it back up again.

For some people it might be "hard". For most people, it is easier than they think. Most people drive well under 80 miles per day and have plenty of time to charge at night.

Yes, the occasional road-trip scenario may be a deal-killer for some (and irrationally so, I think), but the road trip isn't actually what your "main car" gets used for most of the time. For most people, their main car takes them about 30 miles around town per day... day-in, day-out. The FFE is a great main car for doing that.

My FFE is my main car.

At this point, most people aren't buying Electric cars that'll get them 80 miles. So why would a dealer promote it?

Yeah, nobody is buying Leafs. Oh wait...

And the other reality is if I only had a FFE, I'd be screwed most of the time because it can't handle real life scenarios for people with kids. Even if I could charge it in my condo complex, taking my kid to some game 30+ miles away means I might not be able to make it home. I would have to hope there are charging stations close to the game. And this is a common theme when you have kids in sports or other activities. You travel to games and events that aren't down the street. Is this every week? No, but depending on the sport, it could be a few times a week, if not more. Sometimes you'll get lucky and have a home game, other times you'll have games that are 30+ miles away. And that's if you live in the center of a county, if you live near the edges, you won't even have enough miles to make it to the other sides of the county.

Yeah the less than 80 miles per day is a good metric to go on if you just go to work and come back home and live relatively close to work. It's a terrible metric for people with kids who actually do things besides play video games.

 

[JTCalif]

[...] it's hard to have your only car or main car be a car that gets about 80 miles on a charge and then needs about 4+ hours to charge it back up again.

Your point matches common perceptions, I think, but I agree with WattsUp: the FFE is our main car.
It gets used about 4 times for every 1 trip in our good old Honda Civic. (Actually, I use my bicycle for errands more often than the Honda ... but am fortunate with weather and locations.)

Ford is not pushing sales (of FFE) in any state, so far as I can tell. Have never seen or heard an ad for one here in California (I have for Leaf), and have not seen one at the dealer where I get service. (Service here means work done for 2 recalls, to handle problems I had not seen ... just playing it safe.)

 

[Gigi]

Yeah, nobody is buying Leafs. Oh wait...

I keep seeing those ugly things every time I go out in my part of town. They're everywhere, like a plague of frogs.

Not much in the way of charging infrastructure out here in the suburbs - Walgreens, Kohls, Whole Foods, and car dealerships. That's about it. Very rarely have I seen anyone actually using a charging station. Apparently, people where I live believe in providing for their own needs.

Let's see. Next to nothing in the way of public charging infrastructure. The roads covered with Leafs. Wall to wall subdivisions with single family houses and garages. I wonder how come there are so many EVs.

 

[WattsUp]

And the other reality is if I only had a FFE, I'd be screwed most of the time because it can't handle real life scenarios for people with kids.
...
[80 miles is] a terrible metric for people with kids who actually do things besides play video games.

Then clearly the FFE is not the best car for your lifestyle. We get it. It doesn't meet your needs and you regret your decision. Sorry about that. But there's no need to be (vaguely) insulting. After all, it seems the only person here who is to "blame" for anything is you... it's not any of our faults that you purchased the wrong car for you.

For me, my FFE is great. Best car I've ever owned. And I never play video games.

 

[Gigi]

And the other reality is if I only had a FFE, I'd be screwed most of the time because it can't handle real life scenarios for people with kids. . .

Yeah the less than 80 miles per day is a good metric to go on if you just go to work and come back home and live relatively close to work. It's a terrible metric for people with kids who actually do things besides play video games.

Not every parent with an EV lets their kids sit on the couch and play video games. There are lots of LEAFs at the soccer fields, tennis courts, school parking lots, etc. around here.

I know a young couple with two kids that are active in sports and other after school activities. They own a LEAF. They love their car. It serves their needs very well. When I told them I was interested in buying an FFE, they were excited to tell me at length everything that they loved about their car and to encourage me to buy one.

Their situation is different from yours, pjam3, in one critically important way. They live in a house that has a garage where they have installed their very own EVSE where they charge their car at home overnight.

People are different. Not everyone's situation is the same. EVs fit some people's needs perfectly; however, EVs are not for everybody. If an EV doesn't match your family configuration, lifestyle, or driving needs, don't make yourself miserable trying to drive one. Buy a car that meets your needs and enjoy it.

Don't blame the FFE if it doesn't do what you need it to do. That's like blaming a hammer for being a lousy screwdriver. If you need a screwdriver, don't pick up a hammer. Pick up a screwdriver. A car is a tool. Pick the right tool for the right job.

 

[EVA]

Jeffand, thanks for posting this topic. I was waiting for somebody to talk about auto shows.

I went to the Chicago show and the FFE was well represented. No they didn't have an awesome cool booth like in Detroit (that is such a sweet display). They had a white FFE sitting right next to the Ford Mustang dyno display. That area had about 100 people every hour watching a guy run a Mustang up to 140 MPH on the dyno. Yes the irony of a massive V8 next to the FFE.

Here's the cool part about the FFE - I listened to two of the presentations. The guy mentioned the FFE every single time. I got really lucky and got to sit in the Mustang during one run. They wanted somebody with a Ford key in their pocket, the announcer saw me, and asked to see the key and which car. The Focus Electric. He then went on to talk about the car - got everything exactly right and was very positive about it.

I probably circled past the FFE 10 times - there were always people sitting in that car. It got plenty of attention.

Nissan had their Leaf on a stand way in the back of their area. The Mitsubishi iMev (or whatever it's called) was tucked way in back in a booth nobody was at anyway. You had to know that was an electric.

BMW had the i3 well displayed next to the concept electric / gas hybrid super car.

Oddly, I missed the Tesla display. It was hidden somewhere, not obvious.

 

[jmueller065]

I am less than 5 miles away from Michigan Assembly (where the FFE, ICE Focus, and C-Max'es are built here in North America). I see more Leafs than I see FFEs! LOL (In my daily travels, though, I see far more Volts than any other plugin vehicle by far--at least 3 or 4 Volts in a day.)

I also agree: My FFE is my main car. In fact, I've found the FFE to handle so well in the snow that we recently got rid of our F-350 4x4--don't need it. Our two main cars now are Focuses (my FFE and the wife's ICE).

 

[dmen]

Oddly, I missed the Tesla display. It was hidden somewhere, not obvious.

I think Tesla skipped Chicago this year.

 

[v_traveller]

It's a nice toy car for most people, but it's hard to have your only car or main car be a car that gets about 80 miles on a charge and then needs about 4+ hours to charge it back up again.

My beloved FFE covered over 17,000 miles of the 28,000 miles that my family drove for the 12 months from Feb 2013 through Jan 2014. Clearly this was my main car. Typical range used between charges is 40 miles.

7500 of the remaining 11,000 miles was covered by my wife's 2013 Honda Pilot. As of Valentine's Day weekend, she now has a RAV4 EV. So her main car is now an EV with only 20 miles more range than the FFE. Typical range between charges so far is about 20 miles. This includes running the kids to various athletic activities, including baseball practice and games, and will be used for soccer, tennis, and golf when their respective seasons demand it. By the way, my kids play video games too, and they're damn good at it.

So in my case and my wife's case, a BEV - almost any BEV, except for the Smart ED and MiEV - has the range to serve as our "main car". And frankly, I don't know of anyone that bought a BEV to serve as a "toy car".... unless it was a Tesla Roadster.

But back to the original subject... Ford is not pushing sales of the FFE anywhere, and why should they? They've said a number of times last year that the FFE is selling as well as expected. Tree hugging and Ford-hating journalists and bloggers have twisted these words in to slander and said Ford doesn't care about BEVs, despite the fact that Ford has publicly communicated verbally and and written form that they're in the BEV game for the foreseeable future. The strongest evidence of this, in my opinion, is in their last Sustainability Report:

http://corporate.ford.com/microsites/sustainability-report-2012-13/environment-products-plan-overview

The chart says it all - Ford has been met its goal of introducing a BEV (yay!). In the near term it plans to evolve the BEV. Long-term, the plan is "Continued leverage of BEVs". Overall, to me their strategy says this:

- Ford will continue to sell BEVs, but they will never be a "core product".
- Ford considers BEVs essential to the development of other technologies, i.e. PHEV and HEV.

So with that, here is my conjecture: Ford is in the BEV market to stay; they have to in order to attain their PHEV and HEV goals. Those of us hooked on Ford BEVs will continue to be their beta testers (which is fine by me). We may never see more than one BEV model from Ford (which is fine by me, so long as it's the Focus). And we will likely never see huge advertising dollars thrown at it.

But who cares about seeing our cars on the big screen during the Super Bowl or Olympics? That takes some serious bucks that have to come from somewhere. How much are you willing to pay for the satisfaction of being able to point at the TV and say, "Hey, that's my car!"? Would you pay $1000? $2000? Ford is now offering a whopping $6000 off of a FFE purchase! Wanna give that up in favor of a 30-second spot you may never see more than once? Personally, I'd rather see a $6000 rebate or drop in price for the next two years so I can have a 2016 FFE for much, much less than I'm putting out for my 2013.

Car shows, word-of-mouth, ride-and-drives, targeted internet ads, and ultimately $6000 rebates or great lease deals for those that see the light. I'm good with that.

 

[unplugged]

Ford is not pushing sales of the FFE anywhere, and why should they? They've said a number of times last year that the FFE is selling as well as expected.

A manufacturer pushes sales because they want to make money. (Nissan) An automaker pushes sales when they expect to establish themselves as a leader in a certain segment. (Nissan) In the case of Ford, many have speculated as to why the Focus Electric is neither a "compliance car" or a nationwide seller. Simply saying Ford doesn't expect any significant FFE sales, as Ford has done, doesn't give them a pass as to why they don't TRY to sell the FFE. I have speculated that Ford isn't interested in the FFE because Ford didn't design or build the powertrain. I also have guessed that Ford doesn't make much or any money on each sale, so Ford just doesn't care to push the car. I have suggested that Ford doesn't want to irritate its dealerships because an electric doesn't drive the service department sales and that is the bread and butter of any dealership. But what I won't do is give Ford a pass because Ford is happy with its sales meeting quota.

- Ford will continue to sell BEVs, but they will never be a "core product".

Never say never. I suppose in the short term, Ford doesn't have plans for a BEV slate of vehicles, but given the alternatives, especially in California, EVs will become the rule, not the exception.

Within ten years, there will be a significant percentage of EVs on the road. Within twenty years, most cars sold will be EVs. This is rather easy to forecast because no matter what gains we see from ICE, they will always be incredibly inefficient, and will always pollute on the street 100 yards from your home.

My children will see the end of gas powered vehicles. And it can't come too soon.

 

[v_traveller]

A manufacturer pushes sales because they want to make money. (Nissan) An automaker pushes sales when they expect to establish themselves as a leader in a certain segment.

Agreed. Clearly, they are not looking to make money through volume sales of the FFE, nor do they seem to want to be a leader in the BEV market. From what I can see, for now Ford is pushing Energi models; not sure if they are striving to be leaders in PHEV but they certainly seem interested in making money at it, judging by the advertising effort. But that doesn't mean that they don't care about the FFE or BEVs. It seems to me that they look at BEVs as a host to develop and improve a core technology that is essential to PHEV and HEV development. After all, at the heart of every PHEV and HEV is a BEV.

Simply saying Ford doesn't expect any significant FFE sales, as Ford has done, doesn't give them a pass as to why they don't TRY to sell the FFE.

A pass on what? What is the pass/fail criteria? I sure didn't mean to imply that I was giving them a pass/fail on any criteria put forth. I'm just communicating my thoughts on their published information. That being said, putting myself in their shoes, I don't think I'd do things much differently. Where Tesla needs BEVs to catch on for their survival, Ford merely needs to make sure they aren't left behind when the EV market takes off and really starts cutting into ICE sales, PHEVs and HEVs included. I think their diversified approach is the safest approach for a huge ICE vehicle manufacturer.

Ford will continue to sell BEVs, but they will never be a "core product".

Never say never. I suppose in the short term, Ford doesn't have plans for a BEV slate of vehicles, but given the alternatives, especially in California, EVs will become the rule, not the exception.

You're right, I should say "may", not "will", since it is just my opinion. I'll change my tune when I see Ford's published strategy change to emphasize BEVs. Until then, I'll continue to vote with my $$$ by continuing to favor BEVs over anything else when my current leases are up, in hopes that perhaps my purchase will combine with other BEV patrons to steer the corporation toward offering more sub-$40K BEV choices.

 

[pjam3]

Ford is not pushing sales of the FFE anywhere, and why should they? They've said a number of times last year that the FFE is selling as well as expected.

A manufacturer pushes sales because they want to make money. (Nissan) An automaker pushes sales when they expect to establish themselves as a leader in a certain segment. (Nissan) In the case of Ford, many have speculated as to why the Focus Electric is neither a "compliance car" or a nationwide seller. Simply saying Ford doesn't expect any significant FFE sales, as Ford has done, doesn't give them a pass as to why they don't TRY to sell the FFE. I have speculated that Ford isn't interested in the FFE because Ford didn't design or build the powertrain. I also have guessed that Ford doesn't make much or any money on each sale, so Ford just doesn't care to push the car. I have suggested that Ford doesn't want to irritate its dealerships because an electric doesn't drive the service department sales and that is the bread and butter of any dealership. But what I won't do is give Ford a pass because Ford is happy with its sales meeting quota.

- Ford will continue to sell BEVs, but they will never be a "core product".

Never say never. I suppose in the short term, Ford doesn't have plans for a BEV slate of vehicles, but given the alternatives, especially in California, EVs will become the rule, not the exception.

Within ten years, there will be a significant percentage of EVs on the road. Within twenty years, most cars sold will be EVs. This is rather easy to forecast because no matter what gains we see from ICE, they will always be incredibly inefficient, and will always pollute on the street 100 yards from your home.

My children will see the end of gas powered vehicles. And it can't come too soon.

I hope this is the case, but I doubt it. It's easy to keep things cheap when the big bad Oil & electric companies keep things cheap. But the same big bad oil companies are also the ones investing in alternative energy. They've also raised rates in some areas. And in most places where I'm at, there is no such thing as "free charging stations." They used to be free a few years ago, but now 99+ percent of those stations have started charging. It's cheaper than gas at $1-2 per hour, but who knows where this will go as Blink already went bankrupt. What happens when everybody has an electric car instead of 1 percent? Electric companies aren't just going to keep things the same as they are as they've already been looking at these issues.

Nothing happens overnight. The Electric market is less than 1 percent. And most of us have gotten huge rebates. I got a $10K rebate on my FFE. If they take that away, I wouldn't have bought it. And we've already seen the fed and state governments looking at stopping those rebates. Companies like Ford can issue some $6K rebate all they want, but if you only buy a car because you saved $10K, it's not really because you love the car.

To me the truth is in the math. Nobody gives a crap about rebates and credits when they buy a Tesla. It's pretty much a $100K car. They market it as $70K, but when I priced mine it was close to $100K, all the Teslas around me, and there are hundreds, are $100K, not the base model. When you love the car because you love the car, it doesn't really matter what it costs. How many people would still buy the FFE if it were $40K or more without all the credits, rebates, etc? I bet most people wouldn't have bought it. You see threads on here about $99-199 per month. When it's more about cost than the car, that tells you the market for that car. It's a cheap electric car. Nothing against that, but most of these companies aren't going to make a Model S like car for a market that really wants a $99 per month car. They'll get as close as they can get and that's where it'll end. People just don't want to accept that reality.

I like the FFE, but in all honesty, I'm probably going to buy the Model X next year as it's a far more useful car.

 

[pjam3]

And the other reality is if I only had a FFE, I'd be screwed most of the time because it can't handle real life scenarios for people with kids. . .

Yeah the less than 80 miles per day is a good metric to go on if you just go to work and come back home and live relatively close to work. It's a terrible metric for people with kids who actually do things besides play video games.

Not every parent with an EV lets their kids sit on the couch and play video games. There are lots of LEAFs at the soccer fields, tennis courts, school parking lots, etc. around here.

I know a young couple with two kids that are active in sports and other after school activities. They own a LEAF. They love their car. It serves their needs very well. When I told them I was interested in buying an FFE, they were excited to tell me at length everything that they loved about their car and to encourage me to buy one.

Their situation is different from yours, pjam3, in one critically important way. They live in a house that has a garage where they have installed their very own EVSE where they charge their car at home overnight.

People are different. Not everyone's situation is the same. EVs fit some people's needs perfectly; however, EVs are not for everybody. If an EV doesn't match your family configuration, lifestyle, or driving needs, don't make yourself miserable trying to drive one. Buy a car that meets your needs and enjoy it.

Don't blame the FFE if it doesn't do what you need it to do. That's like blaming a hammer for being a lousy screwdriver. If you need a screwdriver, don't pick up a hammer. Pick up a screwdriver. A car is a tool. Pick the right tool for the right job.

This is why I don't believe half the stories people tell. People who actually take their kids to these events will have far different stories. Yes, if you drop off your kid at the local park down the street from your house and some other parent drives the kids, it would work.

I find your defense of these theories to be a lie. I have kids. I work. And the FFE can't charge in 30 minutes.
So explain to me how a car that gets about 80 miles max can go back/forth to work at say 40-50 miles per day(and lets be real, most companies don't have charging stations at this point, and I live in California where there are far more companies who do, but still, most don't)? I mean 25 miles one way isn't all that far to get to work in many places across the US.

So you work 8-5, but don't get home to charge as you have to pick up your Daughter from school and take her to practice. That's only about 5 miles from her school, but after that you have to go pick up your son who plays soccer and take him to the practice field. That's only another 5 miles. But neither are down the street from one another. So now you are talking at least 10+ miles more. But it's not over as your spouse tells you that you need to pick up milk or diapers or whatever. No issue, that's only another 5 miles or something.

But the point is, all those miles start adding up when you have a max of 80. And god forbid if you have a kid on some traveling team where 50+ miles one way could be the norm during many game days. Or if you have a talented kid who needs to get to Los Angeles from San diego for events. Yeah that's not happening.


So yeah it works great if everything is in some perfect world where your house, your work, your kids schools, and all your kids activities are all within some 20 mile radius. But for most people, that isn't close to the real world.