Its starting to get cold outside. How's your range doing

[lmlaster]

I sent a PM to a few, but though a new topic is a better idea.

I live in Chesterton, IN just outside Chicago. It is down in the 40's F now and I am starting to worry, I may not be able to drive this car for my normal commute all winter.

I have a 23.5 mile 1 way commute to work. When I bought my FFe in June, I would arrive at work with 70% remaining battery. Going straight home, same roads, I would typically arrive with 45% remaining.

Today was 46F in the morning. I arrived with 65% remaining battery. I suspect I will arrive home with about 40%. I am not using heat except to briefly defrost the windows. I have changed my timed charging to start at 3:30 am and finish at 6:00 (free for me), hoping the batter will still be a little warmer.

I'm concerned when it gets to 30F, I won't make the 48 mile round trip. My old Th!nk did it without problem every day of the year.

Those of you in the Midwest, what's your experience? I've old owned my FFE since June.

White Lightning NWI

 

[jmueller065]

A 50 mile round trip during winter is doable: I have a coworker who does that.

My round trip is 30 miles, a bit easier to do in the colder months.

A few tips:

• Dress warm!
• Set up a Go time for 80F (the max temp)
• Dress warm!
• Drive slow
• Crack the drivers window about 1/2" or so to keep the windows from fogging
• Find a route that uses side streets (e.g. much slower than the freeway), sometimes this route is shorter too

The go time for 80F is essential for those really cold morning commutes (e.g. <0F).

Note that my coworker has purchased a 12V heated blanket, and a separate 12V defroster to use when its really cold.

 

[hybridbear]

We use the 85F Go Time setting all winter. We can drive a long ways without needing to turn on the heat in the car then. This also ensures that you get the coolant up to max temp before leaving home. This means that the car has to do less to heat the coolant when you're driving.

I'm not sure about the driving slow theory. Remember that the heat pulls a certain number of kW over time. A 30 minute drive with heat on will use less power for heat than a 45 minute drive with heat on. The 45 minute drive would use less energy for driving due to the lower speed, but would use more energy for heating.

Anytime you briefly turn on the defrost the car is going to maximum heat. This means 5+ kW of power to the heating element plus around 1-2 kW for the air conditioning compressor. Running defrost on the lowest fan speed at the LO temp setting will ensure that you only get the AC compressor electrical load.

 

[jmueller065]

I'm not sure about the driving slow theory.

If you precondition to 85F and crack the window you don't need to run the heat and thus going slower uses less juice simply because the drive motor is the only thing using any appreciable juice.

If you have to turn the heat on, then yes it is best to minimize your commute time vs commute consumption as the heater sucks juice in greater quantities than the drive motor.

 

[Tim Jodice]

My experience is that 50-55 is the where the best efficiency is. It is well known what happens when you go faster so I won't go there. Going slower than 50 on my route does not help with range. This is with the climate control on 72 auto.

 

[triangles]

lmlaster
As long as your commute doesn't involve driving down the interstate at 75mph and you sparingly use the heat just to keep the windows fog free you should be fine. As jmueller065 pointed out Preheating while plugged in using the go time will make at least the ride in more comfortable and give you a few extra miles of range. Also I crack my window about 1/4" or so when they start to fog and it clears them up. Alternately you could turn your climate control to "A/C OFF" and the floor vent with temp to "LO" and fan speed on low. This will bring in outside air without running the heat or AC, just the juice to turn the fan. The first day I got my FFE last winter it was 6F in the am with a high of 13F. I drove it all around using the heat sparingly and arrived home after going 48 miles(about 1/2 freeway 65-70mph) with 4 miles left on the GOM. You'll likely be in single digits left when you get home. If this worries you, see if there is 120V outlet you can plug into to gain a few extra miles during the day. If you go out for lunch or use the heater to keep you toasty warm, you'll likely run into problems.

I have a cheap 12v "heater" that plugs into the cigarette lighter outlet. I'll see how well it works sitting on the dash to keep my windows from fogging. I bought it years ago with the intent to use it to keep the windows clear in my '68 VW beetle that lacked heat. I found it again this summer while cleaning so I didn't get to try it last winter.

When the highs are below 50 is when you'll really see your range start to drop off. The battery TMS 3kW battery heaters will try to keep the battery temp above 50F.

EDIT: I forgot to ask: What kind of speeds do you travel at on your commute and how long is your commute. If you travel at high speed a lot or sit forever in a traffic jam and you have to keep running the climate control to keep your windows clear, that could be a problem.

 

[breeves002]

One thought is if you can find somewhere to charge L1 when at your destination. Would solve your problem. I can make a 46 mile round trip commute just fine so far but it hasn't been below freezing yet. I charge L1 or L2 at work depending how much I get to work with based on errands or charging overnight or not. Its slightly easier to charge L1.

 

[qflyer]

My wife's daily commute is 50 miles as well. Assuming the battery is about 18 kwh, that means she could go as high as 360 wh/mi. During spring/summer/fall she averages 250 wh/mi. That leaves an extra 110 wh/mi (5.5 kwh) for running the heat. Her round trip is 1 hour, so even on the coldest days (north Alabama, rarely below 15-20 F) she can keep the cabin set to 75 with no problem. On a more typical day, say in the 40s, that same 75 degree cabin only pulls about 2 kwh, so she gets home with closer to 10 miles remaining vs 1-2 miles on the coldest days.

Probably by next winter with some capacity loss, she'll have to adjust her cabin temps to make the trip. Hopefully by winter of 2017 we'll have a Chevy Bolt or Tesla 3 (please don't make it ugly like the Bolt, Tesla!) so we won't have to worry about this nonsense. It's absurd that people have to use heating blankets in a $30K car!

 

[eaglelaker]

I have a 66 mi round trip se wi to nothern il. I pre heat @ 72 with morning temps in the 30's 40's. I have 2 charging stations within a mile of work which i have not needed yet. My drive is 1/2 city/country. I leave home with the range around 90 mi. and by the time I get to work it's around 50mi. When I get home it's at 15 to 20mi. Very cold days will be a challenge.

 

[triangles]

I have a 66 mi round trip se wi to nothern il. I pre heat @ 72 with morning temps in the 30's 40's. I have 2 charging stations within a mile of work which i have not needed yet.

You will need those charge stations when it gets colder especially when the high is below freezing. Your commute is at least 10 if not 15 miles over max. winter range. If you do manage to do the 66 mi trip when it's below freezing I'd like to hear about it.

 

[eaglelaker]

OK! A good test yesterday with temps in the 30's & 40's cloudy and cold winds all day. Started out with 82mi. got to work with 42mi. got home with 10mi left. Interesting that I was only able to charge to 82mi/100% in a garage overnight. Does preheating take away from range?

 

[triangles]

It does if you're not plugged in or only plugged into L1. If you're plugged into L2 that has a high enough current rating it won't use the battery. What "high enough" is I don't know. I've seen it posted elsewhere on here that it will pull from the battery if the L2 can't provide enough current. I've never seen mine draw more than 29A from my 32A EVSE although I've never looked to see how much it's drawing while preheating... I think I'll do that tomorrow if I remember.

 

[jmueller065]

Interesting that I was only able to charge to 82mi/100% in a garage overnight.

You charged to 100% just fine; you didn't lose anything.

Its a common misconception that the displayed range in miles actually means something. The value is calculated by your most recent trips and thus as the weather turns colder you'll start using more Wh/mile which will affect the calculation (that value/meter is commonly referred to as the Guess-O-Meter because its the cars best guess at the range given your most recent driving habits).

If you want a higher value for the Guess-O-Meter just drive 25 mph for an entire charge..suddenly you'll find all kinds of range you never knew you had!

 

[eaglelaker]

(Its a common misconception that the displayed range in miles actually means something.)
That makes sense as I have used the nav to show my distance to home and work and it is way more accurate!

 

[Rogerschro]

Last winter my FFE averaged 55-60 range when it was highs in the 30-40s. Most times when I went that far, I still had 10-20 left estimate. I charge the car in a barely heated garage, about 40-50 degrees, and do not precondition. My car is set at 65-68 degrees, (74 when my girlfriend drives it.)

 

[michael]

This morning my displayed ETE at full charge was down to 17.2 kWh, and my actual usable energy (per dash consumption display) was down to 15.9. This is pretty much the lowest I've seen yet.

 

[hybridbear]

This morning my displayed ETE at full charge was down to 17.2 kWh, and my actual usable energy (per dash consumption display) was down to 15.9. This is pretty much the lowest I've seen yet.

Was your HVB temp significantly lower today than previous days?

 

[michael]

Not significantly...mid 80's when starting out, mid 90's on arrival

 

[michael]

Today was a little colder

Battery temp was 72 at startup. ETE showed 17.0

Upon arrival, battery temp was 84. 11.4 used (per dash display) ETE 3.73. Best estimate of actual available was approximately 15.2 kWh (sum of used + ETE)

 

[WattsUp]

After my FFE has sat around for a while (overnight) doing nothing (not even charging) the HV battery temp always seems to end up within a few degrees of the ambient temp.

Is that what everyone sees?

I suppose that would make sense. Given enough time, all parts of the car should settle at the ambient temp (assuming covered in a garage).