OBDII data for HVB

[jmueller065]

Are you also tracking what the car reports for HVB temp & Abs SOC?

No I'm not being that thorough. Just check FORScan and make note of the ETE number and turn it off.

 

[hybridbear]

Are you also tracking what the car reports for HVB temp & Abs SOC?

No I'm not being that thorough. Just check FORScan and make note of the ETE number and turn it off.

It would be helpful to have that data too because ETE is affected by HVB temp.

 

[hybridbear]

This morning I'm volunteering at the Special Olympics with work. It was a 33 mile drive to get here. The ETE decreased by 9160 Wh but the trip log showed 8.2 kWh used. I made a note of ETE to see how it changes while the car is off.

 

[michael]

Same idea as I saw. 9 kWh consumed, ETE dropped 10.6. This is a typical pattern for me

 

[hybridbear]

When I arrived at the Special Olympics the ETE was about 10.2 kWh. Before leaving I remote started the car for about 10 minutes with the AC set to Auto at 62 F. Even with that electricity consumption the ETE showed about 10.85 kWh when I started the car to leave. I drove to work and used about 5.8 kWh based on the drop in ETE but the trip log showed just 5.2 kWh used.

 

[hybridbear]

From OASIS for the Fusion Energi:

Normal Operation and Fault Conditions

With the ignition in the ON position and the engine running or OFF, the BECM monitors and maintains the High Voltage Battery temperature within a specific range. The High Voltage Battery has an external fan that circulates air within the High Voltage Battery so a specific temperature range is maintained. A thermistor is mounted to the battery case which monitors inlet air temperature along with 16 thermistors inside the High Voltage Battery which all monitor High Voltage Battery temperature. The ideal High Voltage Battery temperature is 25°C (77°F) with a desired range of 20°C (68°F) to 30°C (86°F). The BECM will shut the vehicle down and the powertrain malfunction (wrench) warning indicator will illuminate when the fault condition is present.

I find it interesting that the Focus Electric allows the HVB to get up to 98 F before it stops the HVB from getting any warmer... The Energi really tries hard to keep the HVB from getting warmer than 90 F.

 

[michael]

I wish it would keep it cooler as well, but I can see the rationale for letting it get that hot...

1. More energy available...better EPA range
2. Less energy used in cooling during charging...better EPA MPGe
3. Battery won't last as long...not Ford's problem

 

[jmueller065]

This morning: 19172; slightly colder out so the precondition heated the cabin using slightly more battery.
Battery current temp 82, internal cabin temp 77, batt display 100%, H_BATT_CHAR 90.78%.

Do you guys leave the OBD-II dongle plugged in all the time, or just plug it in when you want to record data?

 

[hybridbear]

This morning: 19172; slightly colder out so the precondition heated the cabin using slightly more battery.
Battery current temp 82, internal cabin temp 77, batt display 100%, H_BATT_CHAR 90.78%.

Do you guys leave the OBD-II dongle plugged in all the time, or just plug it in when you want to record data?

I leave it plugged in all the time.

 

[jmueller065]

Interesting: This morning (Saturday) I didn't get in the car until 8am or so and it didn't precondition. My ETE was 18902, Temp was 81, Batt display % was 99.5, H_BATT_CHAR was 89.8%.

This was a good 3 hours after the car had completed charging. As I sat there with the car started but doing nothing I could watch the ETE slowly drop: 18902, 18901, 18900, etc. (Yeah I'm aware the car was started and thus the DC-DC converter was running powering the 12V systems.)

This leads me to an observation, and question? Is it possible that the ETE will slowly drop after a full charge; even if the car is just sitting there doing nothing or running the TMS.

Thus if your car has sat all day fully charged (which finished sometime overnight) your ETE may be substantially lower later in the day than it was immediately after charging??

 

[damania]

I would expect energy use even if the car is not moving because the computers and sensors are on. Plus there's brake lights. Also mechanical things like the coolant pumps may be engaged.

But my biggest curiosity is how much energy just it lose just sitting in the garage after a full charge after 1 day? I've noticed it lose charge after a few days after a full charge because the blue battery has part of its top empty as soon as I drive a mile.

 

[hybridbear]

Interesting: This morning (Saturday) I didn't get in the car until 8am or so and it didn't precondition. My ETE was 18902, Temp was 81, Batt display % was 99.5, H_BATT_CHAR was 89.8%.

This was a good 3 hours after the car had completed charging. As I sat there with the car started but doing nothing I could watch the ETE slowly drop: 18902, 18901, 18900, etc. (Yeah I'm aware the car was started and thus the DC-DC converter was running powering the 12V systems.)

This leads me to an observation, and question? Is it possible that the ETE will slowly drop after a full charge; even if the car is just sitting there doing nothing or running the TMS.

Thus if your car has sat all day fully charged (which finished sometime overnight) your ETE may be substantially lower later in the day than it was immediately after charging??

There seems to be quite a bit of variation in ETE with a full charge. Sometimes we see as high as 19.7 kWh and sometimes as low as 19.1 kWh. I think this just shows how much ETE is an estimate and not a real number. The Fusion Energi usually has less ETE variation, but it also has a smaller battery. Its ETE with a full charge usually shows 7.05 - 7.12 kWh.

I would expect energy use even if the car is not moving because the computers and sensors are on. Plus there's brake lights. Also mechanical things like the coolant pumps may be engaged.

But my biggest curiosity is how much energy just it lose just sitting in the garage after a full charge after 1 day? I've noticed it lose charge after a few days after a full charge because the blue battery has part of its top empty as soon as I drive a mile.

When the car is off the HVB should not be powering anything. The 12V battery is used to power the electronics and lights at that time. As soon as the car is turned on the HVB will be discharging to power everything through the DCDC converter. In the Fusion Energi our DCDC converter power is usually 200-400 W with lights off. The headlights add about 400 W of power draw. I have not yet taken enough measurements with the Focus Electric to check its DCDC power consumption in various scenarios. I just posted some DCDC converter observations in the 12V battery thread.

 

[hybridbear]

Tonight we went for a walk at a State Park nearby which has a L2 EVSE. When we arrived the HVB temp was 86 and the outside temp was about 84. The car charged for about 45 minutes while we walked along the river. About 10 minutes before we got back to the car I remote started it so the AC would run and cool the cabin. When we got back to the car we had dispensed 5.1 kWh according to ChargePoint and the HVB temp had risen to 97 F. The TMS did not engage to cool the HVB while we were driving. The Focus is sitting unplugged overnight tonight because the Fusion Energi battery is depleted and needs to be charged for tomorrow morning since we need both cars. I'm interested to see how much the HVB will cool overnight. This time of year the ambient temp in our underground garage is usually around 75-78 F.

This morning when we started with a full charge the HVB temp was 74 F. Throughout the day of driving (we had used about 70% of the battery between the morning and getting to the state park & plugging in) the temp rose from 74 to 86.

 

[jmueller065]

Damania: the noisy clunk you hear from the car when you open the door or a few minutes after you shut it off and walk away are contactors connecting and disconnecting the HVB.

When the car is off and just sitting there the HVB is completely disconnected.

 

[hybridbear]

The HVB cooled from 97 to 84 while parked overnight unplugged. I plugged the car in now & it's charging. FORScan currently shows the charger output is 15.9 amps @ 332.5 volts (5.29 kW). It shows that the input voltage from our L2 EVSE is 205 volts. It also shows that the desired charging amps is 18 & desired volts is 360 (6.48 kW).

The temperature sensors for the internal charging system all started at 81 F but are quickly rising. The car has only been plugged in ~3 mins and already the internal charging temp sensors range from 93-102 and the temps are still rising. Update: a few more minutes have passed & now the temps are 100-122 F. Update 2: now the peak temp is 133 F.

The PCM shows that the battery coolant is circulating, but at a low speed. The pump speed currently shows 36%. The motor electronics coolant pump is also running, at 40%. I'm thinking that the MEC pump cools the power electronics. The HVB coolant temp has risen from 81 to 90 F, update: now it's up to 91. There is no fan running. The battery coolant pump is going on & off. It will periodically turn off for 3-4 seconds & then it goes back to 36% again. Considering that the HVB coolant temp is hotter than the HVB it must be cooling the charging system components that are now up over 100 F.

I popped the hood now & can hear very faint noises of water circulating. It sounds like it's coming from the area behind the 12V battery.

 

[jmueller065]

Considering that the HVB coolant temp is hotter than the HVB it must be cooling the charging system components that are now up over 100 F.

That makes sense to me: The charging system is doing a lot of work converting the AC to DC and stuffing all that current into the battery especially at those power levels. This tells me they did a really good job considering that they thought enough to also cool the charging electronics as well as the battery.

Note that the FFE has 3 cooling loops as part of the cooling system; all described here:
Lesson 3 Cooling System(pdf)

 

[hybridbear]

As the pack voltage has risen the charging voltage has changed. The SOBDM now shows 207 volts from our EVSE & 15.87 amps @ 336.8 volts (5.345 kW) going to the HVB. The BECM shows the HVB activity as -15.62 amps @ 336.43 volts (5.255 kW) actually going into the HVB.

The HVB temp is now up to 88 F.

 

[hybridbear]

Note that the FFE has 3 cooling loops as part of the cooling system; all described here:
Lesson 3 Cooling System(pdf)

Does the FFE have the ability to only cool the charging components in a scenario like now where the coolant is hotter than the HVB? I'm just on my iPhone so I can't open the PDF now to see the 3 coolant loops, although I do vaguely remember reading about them before.

 

[jmueller065]

Looks like the 3 loops are: Motor, Battery, and Cabin.

The Motor loop covers the motor and the DCDC converter (167F upper limit).
Battery covers both HVB's and the charging circuitry (no mention of upper limit but it does say "Batteries are most efficient at 50-95F").
Finally, cabin covers, well, the cabin (PTC loop 179F upper limit?).

I'm guessing that those upper limits are coolant temps.

 

[jmueller065]

This morning, back to the normal time and preconditioning: ETE back up to 19376, batt temp 81, H_BATT_CHARGE 91%, BAT_CHA_DISPL 100%.

This behavior also sparks another possible reason, which seems more plausible than my last one (about the HVB discharging over time).
Since the FFE does have a bit of "spare space" in the battery with respect to charge (since it only tops off around 90% actual). What if, during the precondition cycle, the HVAC and other cooling systems don't use all the juice the EVSE is providing. The car would have to put that extra juice somewhere so into the battery it goes. Thus at the end of a precondition in moderate temps (I have the precondition temp set to 72F) the HVB has slightly more charge in it than as a normal charge.

I find this more plausible because in the depths of winter I've found the opposite to be true: The precondition uses more power than the EVSE can provide and thus when I drive away in the morning the car is showing 96% charge on the dash.