Car will not start

[carbuff]

Carbuff IANAL but it sure sounds like you have a water tight case for breach of warranty. If successful I would think that means you get lawyer fees from ford, plus punitive damages then you can take all that money and put it toward a Tesla Model 3. Be finally done with Ford.

Actually, someone local on craigslist is selling a leaf for fairly cheap. Seems like a shame to let my 30 amp charger go to waste. LOL.

 

[tinilk]

I called the dealer for an update on my car, which isn't any deep mystery like Carbuff's - I know what's wrong just can't get them to fix it properly. They fiddled around with the HV battery connectors, got the SSN to go away, drove it around a little and are calling it good to go. I asked again if they can do any of the work described in the "expired" 16B02 bulletin to refurbish the corroded connector and re-seal it to keep water from getting in. His reply is, if it's not an active recall then Ford won't let them do it. It doesn't make any sense to me that a field service action or bulletin would have an expiration date when the car is still under warranty. But whatever.

He's going to see if they can install the plastic shield that's called out in the bulletin, to protect the connectors from water or slush getting kicked up from underneath. I guess I'll take the car back if they at least do that much and see if it's enough to protect it from water spray. I don't expect that to be enough to make it through another New England winter.

 

[tinilk]

Actually, someone local on craigslist is selling a leaf for fairly cheap. Seems like a shame to let my 30 amp charger go to waste. LOL.

No matter how cheap used Leafs are I don't think I'd buy one...the styling is just too, you know, and I'd be constantly worrying about battery fade. I'm very happy with the Volt we're leasing, 3000 EV miles so far. The deals for buying or leasing new EVs in MA are very good. I probably won't buy it out at the end of the 3 years but who knows.

 

[carbuff]

Actually, someone local on craigslist is selling a leaf for fairly cheap. Seems like a shame to let my 30 amp charger go to waste. LOL.

No matter how cheap used Leafs are I don't think I'd buy one...the styling is just too, you know, and I'd be constantly worrying about battery fade. I'm very happy with the Volt we're leasing, 3000 EV miles so far. The deals for buying or leasing new EVs in MA are very good. I probably won't buy it out at the end of the 3 years but who knows.

Yeah, they are a bit too fugly for me too. I dont want to be that guy with the weenie mobile. LOL. I dont know what nissan did about the battery problem, if they upped the warranty or anything like they did with their cvt transmission problems on other cars. Id only buy one if it was older and very cheap. I dont drive very far. But, its official. I am no longer a FFE owner. I got my check today, cleared out my stuff from the car, and was on my way. It was sad to see my car with half the interior missing. LOL. I got most of my payments back and most of my downpayment. I figured that between not having legal fees, driving the car for 3 months and having a new loaner for 8 months, I did ok. Much better than what Ford was offering......which was nothing. LOL. So, its time to mothball my 30 amp home evse, maybe Ill get a plug in something, some day. Im sure by that time it will be wireless charging, like cell phones. I will still monitor all this stuff and add my 2 cents now and then. I figure Ive had all the well known problems so I can probably help someone else out. And Good luck to all those with similar problems like I had. I hope your cars get fixed!!

 

[triangles]

Keep your old vin. Maybe we'll see it pop up on an auction site somewhere... It would be interesting to learn the eventual fate of your old FFE.

 

[carbuff]

Keep your old vin. Maybe we'll see it pop up on an auction site somewhere... It would be interesting to learn the eventual fate of your old FFE.

Yup, Im betting on the middle east.

 

[triangles]

You can always buy a beater and put an order in for a TM3 or wait for the e-Plus Leaf. There's always the Bolt you could get now.

 

[jmueller065]

You can always buy a beater and put an order in for a TM3 or wait for the e-Plus Leaf. There's always the Bolt you could get now.

If you go for the Bolt get a 2019: For 2019 they added "Target Charge Level" (e.g. how much you want to charge the battery to):
https://youtu.be/t1wIowLKrfs?t=149

(I'm hoping they offer this feature to "older" ! LOL Bolt owners. My 2018 Bolt only has Full or "Hilltop Reserve" which charges it to 88%).

 

[carbuff]

You can always buy a beater and put an order in for a TM3 or wait for the e-Plus Leaf. There's always the Bolt you could get now.

Oh, I picked up a beater a few weeks ago when I felt a quick end might be in sight. Ive now got a 07 V8 jeep commander. 12 mpg, 4wd goodness. LOL. The polar opposite of my EV. Didnt chevy make some other little electric car other than the volt and bolt?

 

[jmueller065]

You can always buy a beater and put an order in for a TM3 or wait for the e-Plus Leaf. There's always the Bolt you could get now.

Oh, I picked up a beater a few weeks ago when I felt a quick end might be in sight. Ive now got a 07 V8 jeep commander. 12 mpg, 4wd goodness. LOL. The polar opposite of my EV. Didnt chevy make some other little electric car other than the volt and bolt?

Yes: The Spark.
https://www.carmax.com/cars/chevrolet/spark-ev

 

[kinshi]

So here it is, nearly October, and I am still without my Focus...

Ford finally responded to the dealer, and approved the TCM replacement (not cheap either, that is setting them back $11 grand since the TCM is actually upside the motor, as such the entire motor has to be replaced). So I was actually, foolishly thinking this ordeal was nearly at its end when the dealer told me the TCM.motor had arrived and that wit would take about a week to get it installed, and put back together...that was 3 weeks ago...

See, Ford tossed in another surprise, the car needed another firmware update, and then Ford sat there unresponsive for 2+ weeks, not communicating back to the dealer, not providing the update, then finally the responded that they will not allow the dealer to install this firmware update themselves, no a Ford engineer is going to have to fly out from Michigan to install it themselves.

So now we are in a holding pattern waiting on the Ford engineer to be dispatched to the dealer, and Ford is naturally being uncommunicative on when this will actually occur. In the mean time I am now on my FIFTH loaner car, and we have reached the end of what Ford is willing to pay for rentals, so now the dealer is providing me with a service loaner instead. The dealer is in a state of pure lament over this car, as they have long since lost any money they made selling it to me just on the shop time alone, not counting on the parts Ford would not cover but demanded they replace before allowing the troubleshooting process to proceed) and now they are losing even more money having to provide me with the service loaner now instead of Ford.

The car has been with them since May 29th this year, and that was my third time bringing it in for the same issue and when Ford finally started agreeing to replace parts rather than try software updates alone. It had been in the shop for a month previous, and I had only had it back 2 days when the problem started again. All told, I have not been able to drive this car this car since March, and we are on track for (3) full calendar seasons to have passed.

..and almost ALL the delay is Ford themselves being unresponsive and obstinate at every step. The service tech at the dealer had correctly determined at the onset of the 3rd visit that the TCM needed to be replaced, but Ford would not even talk about that until the PCM had been replaced, and some wiring harness had been replaced, and a bunch of firmware updates were installed until finally we got to the TCM.

I had realized the other day I needed to go back and get my Winter coat out of the trunk, as that is how long this damn car has been un-driveable!

I also strongly suspect that the delay this time is the Ford engineer is still actually coding the firmware update for my car, and his trip to the dealer is because this is gonna be some custom kludge Ford is writing on the fly and its going to take the engineer who wrote the code to kludge it into the car and we are still waiting on him to finish. (and this is prolly where I will find he has been on sabbatical)

Its gotten to the point where EVERYONE working for the dealer knows about my car. Its no longer just a Focus EV...its THE Focus EV, and is a topic of angst at every service dep. management meeting they have now. My car has become part of this dealer group's folklore.

Any bets on if I get the car back before the first snowfall of Winter?

I know at this stage, I am prepared to scare up a lawyer and take a hard look at lemon law statutes if there is not positive moment very soon. This situation is beyond absurb,

Only reason I have not yet, is I actually like(d) the damn car!

 

[triangles]

:shock: wait when did your car first go in?

 

[carbuff]

Your situation sounds just like mine was. I went through 7+ months of that crap. Same stuff. Ford taking forever to make any little decision on the car. They replaced 3 harnesses (same one, 3 times), the sobdm, the tcm, and were in the process of looking into replacing the battery. My car was "The" focus ev. It was the bane of everyones existence who knew about it. It was finally causing major problems between the dealer and Fords whole "team". Thats why the dealer finally bought it back from me. Its too bad, because I, too, liked the car. I just removed my 30 amp GE watt station from the house today. It still pisses me off. I hope they end up fixing your car, but I have no faith in the "team" from Michigan. They suck. LOL.

 

[kinshi]

:shock: wait when did your car first go in?

The first service visit for this problem would have been in March this year (it feels likes its been an eternity). Still in the same situation as my last post, nothing new from Ford yet as to when then Ford engineer is going to show up yet. In the mean time my car is simply sitting at the dealer collecting dust since they have done all they can do at this stage of this process.

 

[carbuff]

Update! That right. An update on a situation that was supposedly over. I do not own the car any more. Ford should know this, right? Nope. I was just contacted by Ford Corporate. They have agreed to buy back my car as the engineering Dept has basically given up trying to fix it. But wait, the dealer already bought it back from me weeks ago. Granted, I lost a significant amount of money on that deal but it was the only course I could take at the time. I let her explain the whole process and approximate amount I would be getting just because Im a glutton for punishment. She had the nerve to cite lemon law guidelines that would determine the amount based on mileage and such. This, when they had used lemon law guidelines to deny my "good faith review" aka buyback request, months ago. Needless to say I would have made out much better with the Ford buyback. Nice timing, Ford. Also it was good to know that they were offering the buyback not because they cared about the customer but because they had given up on fixing the car. When I explained about how the dealership now owned the car and all, and what could ford do for me about the loss I took on the car, she started sounding like the CS dept. She was sorry, etc. Ford cant do that, etc. So anyway for those people looking for a way past the wall of CS people. I give you this. I hope it helps.

Lynn Arledge

Ford Executive Offices

Ford Motor Company

(313) 845-5808

Email: [email protected]

 

[kinshi]

Update! That right. An update on a situation that was supposedly over. I do not own the car any more. Ford should know this, right? Nope. I was just contacted by Ford Corporate. They have agreed to buy back my car as the engineering Dept has basically given up trying to fix it. But wait, the dealer already bought it back from me weeks ago. Granted, I lost a significant amount of money on that deal but it was the only course I could take at the time. I let her explain the whole process and approximate amount I would be getting just because Im a glutton for punishment. She had the nerve to cite lemon law guidelines that would determine the amount based on mileage and such. This, when they had used lemon law guidelines to deny my "good faith review" aka buyback request, months ago. Needless to say I would have made out much better with the Ford buyback. Nice timing, Ford. Also it was good to know that they were offering the buyback not because they cared about the customer but because they had given up on fixing the car. When I explained about how the dealership now owned the car and all, and what could ford do for me about the loss I took on the car, she started sounding like the CS dept. She was sorry, etc. Ford cant do that, etc. So anyway for those people looking for a way past the wall of CS people. I give you this. I hope it helps.

Lynn Arledge

Ford Executive Offices

Ford Motor Company

(313) 845-5808

Email: [email protected]

Thank you for that contact info, I think I will be making use of it...


So, its been a month since the last update, and they only now have finally got a Ford engineer scheduled to come out within the next two weeks to apply whatever update they say only a Ford engineer can do. Maybe a faint glimmer of hope of having the car before Halloween? (my bet is no earlier than Thankgiving instead, given the pace so far)

I know the dealer would be happier if Ford bought the car and got rid of it and me finally, but dammit, I want to hold Ford's feet to the fire and get them to fix the damn car. The fact they are actually giving up on repairs is quite disheartening after this long ordeal. I am still holding out hope the car actually gets fixed after the Ford engineering visit, but then again not holding by breath anymore either.

In the mean time I found there is a recall/service bulletin on the charger for the car too lol (somehow that got missed in the CarFax too).

The dealer has been cool about service loaners through all this. I was in a Ford-sponsored loaner for most of this, but Ford finally decided their rental limit had been reached, so now I am in a service loaner owner by the dealer. (changed loaners 5 times now since this started).

I really need the Focus to work, as I am a really tall guy, and the Focus is a rare one I can fit into comfortably. I had already tried all the Toyota hybrids, and all of them were cramped, and the Leaf is pretty spartan compared to how my Focus is equipped. A Bolt may be an option some day, but those are way out of my price range for now.

Anyway...keeping on keeping on...

 

[carbuff]

I know exactly how you feel. I was in denial about losing my car right up until the check was given to me. I really wanted it to be fixed as it was the perfect car for me. For many of the same reasons you posted. I hope the software update fixes your issue.

 

[tinilk]

Kinshi, I'm still in the same boat as you. I got my car back for 3 days, it rained the 2nd & 3rd day and sure enough, driving through puddles triggered the SSN again. It's now been back at the dealer for a month for its 3rd visit. I haven't heard ANYTHING since it was towed back to them, except some email request a couple days ago to fill out an online review and rate their job on my "recent service"??? I DON'T HAVE MY CAR BACK YET, why would I post a review. I might just wait to see if they've completely forgotten that my car is there.

I miss driving it. We leased a Volt mostly so I don't have to deal with switching between gas-guzzling loaners every time. Very happy with the Volt, it's a nice car but I like the FFE's handling better. Now I'm paying for two cars but only have one. Like you, I just wish they would fix it. However with the 5-year warranty expiring next year I'm now leery of owning the car if they do finally fix it. Even with the 8-year EV components warranty, it seems there are lots of expensive things that wouldn't be covered. And even if under warranty obviously Ford is in no hurry to fix "special EV components".

 

[kinshi]

My saga is at its end at long last!

I talked to the service assistant today, and the work is finally done. The engineer from Ford was here for 2-3 days, after a good 2 weeks before of solid prep work, and he did some custom programming at the dealer, and the car passed all the tests finally, and the road tests. I pick it up tomorrow morning, and drop of the loaner.

So, the final warranty bill to Ford for this saga is over $33k...you read right. Half of that is shop labor alone.

Parts replaced

Module Engine Control EEC p/n FV6Z12A650AD
Motor Assembly p/n H1FZ14B280B (this was around $13k, motor replacement)
CR2032 p/n 715120232

Other work included;

Wiring assembly p/n CM5Z14A318D
Oil compressor p/n YN32
2x Bearing transfer shaft p/n's CM5Z7H338A & B
Flush/fill antifreeze
Collection of nuts, blots, seals, retainers, clips, silcone sealant

They also wound up bleeding and recharging the A/C system


In the end it required the Ford field engineer to reprogram the new TCM. They tried to do a reset using Ford firmware version 111.03 but it it kept failing, they then went to 110.06 (custom version now it seems), and everything started working. Field engineer had to do the reprogramming as it access code only accessible at the factory.

It would seem my Focus has been the Ford engineering guinea pig for a fix that is very likely going to be applied to other Focus with the same issues and for now appears the only one of its kind on the planet with this programming for now. I strongly suspect Ford invested this much in my case because they may have finally had a reliably, reproducible test case to create a proper fix that can be rolled out to other vehicles with the same problem, and its likely that this code is also shared among other Ford hybrid vehicles as well.

You have no idea how thrilled the entire dealer group is to see this done. This car has been the primary topic of every service meeting they have had for months now. The entire place recognizes me and the car now and they are terrified of seeing another one of these cars come in now lol. The good news for them though is they are going to be sending a whopping bill to Ford for the warranty labor along with the loaner car bill.

The SRO paper work stack is literally an inch and a half thick, and it is now the biggest, longest running SRO in the history of this dealer group by a huge margin. They have done 18k other service jobs since my car came in. It appear now that Ford back in Michigan is now very aware of my existence and my car and is now keeping a close eye on what happens next.

Of course I am still not quite believing it is actually done LOL..but I am picking it up tomorrow morning never the less, and driving to work, and we shall see! In previous cases, it took less than a week of both using my home charger and public chargers for the no start issue to manifest itself again. I will update again to let all know if the car is still running, and update periodically if it is still running.

Any Ford really has wound up investing a ton into my car and researching this issue and I pray that what they learned from my car will get passed on to all you others who have had to deal with this.

 

[carbuff]

My saga is at its end at long last!

I talked to the service assistant today, and the work is finally done. The engineer from Ford was here for 2-3 days, after a good 2 weeks before of solid prep work, and he did some custom programming at the dealer, and the car passed all the tests finally, and the road tests. I pick it up tomorrow morning, and drop of the loaner.

So, the final warranty bill to Ford for this saga is over $33k...you read right. Half of that is shop labor alone.

Parts replaced

Module Engine Control EEC p/n FV6Z12A650AD
Motor Assembly p/n H1FZ14B280B (this was around $13k, motor replacement)
CR2032 p/n 715120232

Other work included;

Wiring assembly p/n CM5Z14A318D
Oil compressor p/n YN32
2x Bearing transfer shaft p/n's CM5Z7H338A & B
Flush/fill antifreeze
Collection of nuts, blots, seals, retainers, clips, silcone sealant

They also wound up bleeding and recharging the A/C system


In the end it required the Ford field engineer to reprogram the new TCM. They tried to do a reset using Ford firmware version 111.03 but it it kept failing, they then went to 110.06 (custom version now it seems), and everything started working. Field engineer had to do the reprogramming as it access code only accessible at the factory.

It would seem my Focus has been the Ford engineering guinea pig for a fix that is very likely going to be applied to other Focus with the same issues and for now appears the only one of its kind on the planet with this programming for now. I strongly suspect Ford invested this much in my case because they may have finally had a reliably, reproducible test case to create a proper fix that can be rolled out to other vehicles with the same problem, and its likely that this code is also shared among other Ford hybrid vehicles as well.

You have no idea how thrilled the entire dealer group is to see this done. This car has been the primary topic of every service meeting they have had for months now. The entire place recognizes me and the car now and they are terrified of seeing another one of these cars come in now lol. The good news for them though is they are going to be sending a whopping bill to Ford for the warranty labor along with the loaner car bill.

The SRO paper work stack is literally an inch and a half thick, and it is now the biggest, longest running SRO in the history of this dealer group by a huge margin. They have done 18k other service jobs since my car came in. It appear now that Ford back in Michigan is now very aware of my existence and my car and is now keeping a close eye on what happens next.

Of course I am still not quite believing it is actually done LOL..but I am picking it up tomorrow morning never the less, and driving to work, and we shall see! In previous cases, it took less than a week of both using my home charger and public chargers for the no start issue to manifest itself again. I will update again to let all know if the car is still running, and update periodically if it is still running.

Any Ford really has wound up investing a ton into my car and researching this issue and I pray that what they learned from my car will get passed on to all you others who have had to deal with this.

Yeah, ford had at least that into my car too, but with no success. The custom firmware probably just masks a problem so the ssn does not appear. Thats what chevy did when all their older volts kept coming in with the same battery isolation problem. They just changed the firmware to raise the threshold that would cause the ssn to appear. Not really fixing the issue but leaving the car driveable for the owner. My car just barely crossed the threshold for hybrid battery isolation voltage so a similar thing would have "fixed" my car too. Glad and jealous that you got your car back. I hope it stays fixed!!!!!