Car will not start

[Guest]

do any states have lemon laws that past the first 12-18 months?

I was part of a lemon law case a few years ago. What my attorney told me was that showing the vehicle was out of service for a certain period of time within the first 18 months would automatically qualify it for lemon status, and that anything beyond that it was up to the judge to determine, assuming it went to trial. Still being under factory warranty would, I think, help bolster that argument, that the manufacturer should be able to fix the vehicle and return it to full functionality.

I would think that Ford, faced with a formal request from an attorney asking for a buyout, would cut their losses and move on. Certainly would be worth a call to somebody who knows better.

BTW, I live in California. And, I still getting letters from lemon law attorneys who somehow know I owned the vehicle that I lemoned asking me if I'm having troubles with it, and if so, to contact them for possible legal action. And, the vehicle was built in 2004.

Keith

Since my car was used I only had a 90 day lemon law timeframe for the issue to have started. (NY) Unfortunately, I missed that date by about 28 days. Thats why ford denied my buyback. Even though the car was at the dealer for major repairs to the front end within a month of buying it, that does not qualify because it was not this particular issue that is currently the problem. If my car was a normal car, Im sure the dealer would have offered up a replacement vehicle. But since it is a 2013 and an ffe there just are no suitable replacements to be had in my region. I would not accept an ice vehicle, if offered, either as I only bought this car for the EV benefits, not because I needed to be making payments on an ice used vehicle. But yes, I agree that via Magnuson Moss or something of that nature, a lemon law attorney would probably be able to get a settlement. My fear would be that since it was not a cut and dry lemon law case, they might not make ford pay the attorney fees and it might cut into my settlement. I am getting closer to doing this though, as its just getting out of hand. Today the dealer told me that ford is replacing the harness again as the connector on the one put on the car 5 months ago is obsolete and has caused issues in other cars. ????? I feel that even an obsolete part would solve the problem even though it might fail years down the road. It failed the day after it was installed so I dont see this as being a fix. Its just ford dragging its feet, clutching at straws. Trying anything to avoid replacing the battery. I mean, why would the battery be the problem if the error was for the Hybrid battery isolation circuit fault? Ford is dumb.

 

[campfamily]

do any states have lemon laws that past the first 12-18 months?

I was part of a lemon law case a few years ago. What my attorney told me was that showing the vehicle was out of service for a certain period of time within the first 18 months would automatically qualify it for lemon status, and that anything beyond that it was up to the judge to determine, assuming it went to trial. Still being under factory warranty would, I think, help bolster that argument, that the manufacturer should be able to fix the vehicle and return it to full functionality.

I would think that Ford, faced with a formal request from an attorney asking for a buyout, would cut their losses and move on. Certainly would be worth a call to somebody who knows better.

BTW, I live in California. And, I still getting letters from lemon law attorneys who somehow know I owned the vehicle that I lemoned asking me if I'm having troubles with it, and if so, to contact them for possible legal action. And, the vehicle was built in 2004.

Keith

Since my car was used I only had a 90 day lemon law timeframe for the issue to have started. (NY) Unfortunately, I missed that date by about 28 days. Thats why ford denied my buyback. Even though the car was at the dealer for major repairs to the front end within a month of buying it, that does not qualify because it was not this particular issue that is currently the problem. If my car was a normal car, Im sure the dealer would have offered up a replacement vehicle. But since it is a 2013 and an ffe there just are no suitable replacements to be had in my region. I would not accept an ice vehicle, if offered, either as I only bought this car for the EV benefits, not because I needed to be making payments on an ice used vehicle. But yes, I agree that via Magnuson Moss or something of that nature, a lemon law attorney would probably be able to get a settlement. My fear would be that since it was not a cut and dry lemon law case, they might not make ford pay the attorney fees and it might cut into my settlement. I am getting closer to doing this though, as its just getting out of hand. Today the dealer told me that ford is replacing the harness again as the connector on the one put on the car 5 months ago is obsolete and has caused issues in other cars. ????? I feel that even an obsolete part would solve the problem even though it might fail years down the road. It failed the day after it was installed so I dont see this as being a fix. Its just ford dragging its feet, clutching at straws. Trying anything to avoid replacing the battery. I mean, why would the battery be the problem if the error was for the Hybrid battery isolation circuit fault? Ford is dumb.

I would think that by now, Ford would have been ahead of the game if they had either offered to just give you all of your money back, letting you decide what to buy to replace the car (maybe another FFE, maybe not), or replacing it with a vehicle with similar miles, even if it wasn't a 2013. Then, they could have taken your car and turned it into a lab rat, hopefully to help somebody in the future.

Keith

 

[Guest]

Keith[/quote]

I would think that by now, Ford would have been ahead of the game if they had either offered to just give you all of your money back, letting you decide what to buy to replace the car (maybe another FFE, maybe not), or replacing it with a vehicle with similar miles, even if it wasn't a 2013. Then, they could have taken your car and turned it into a lab rat, hopefully to help somebody in the future.

Keith[/quote]


Well they are definitely losing lots of money on this car and losing a customer for life. Ive said it to the CS girl a hundred times about how much they will save by just refunding me. They are around 30k into just the repairs with another harness to add and then a battery to boot maybe? Its crazy.

 

[triangles]

So out of curiosity I scrolled back to the beginning. You first took it to the dealer Jan 13th 2018... :shock: Over 6 months and counting... At least you got to drive it for a few months before it became Ford's science experiment.

 

[Guest]

Yes and that does not count the approximate 3 weeks added days that they had it for multiple other issues in the time before Jan 13. They have had the car almost twice as long as I did. My 1 year bumper to bumper warranty is slowly fading into the distance as we speak. But when I asked the ford cs about this I was told no, ford does not extend warranties.

 

[triangles]

Well if anything goes wrong within in 6 mo or so after the warranty expires I'd think you'd have a pretty water tight case to make them fix it for free. I wonder what NY's lemon laws are on used cars. That might be worth exploring too.

 

[Guest]

NY lemon law on used cars is either 30, 60 or 90 days, depending on mileage of the car. The problem has to start within that period. My car only had 10k on it so I had the 90 days. This particular issue that cant be fixed started 28 days after the 90 days so ford basically said FU to my request for a buy back. Ford wont listen to anything or anyone once youre out of the lemon law period. Even if they are totally in the wrong, their policy is tough crap, go get a lawyer. That is why they are wasting tons of money not fixing my car. The field rep who actually talks to Ford corporate was told to tell Ford about my position and to recommend not wasting any more time with the car and to issue a refund to just cut their losses. We are waiting to see what response he gets from Dearborn. In the meantime. The brand new harness that they installed today to replace the one they replaced in January because they broke the connector clips off of it. Well, they broke all the clips off of this one too. What a joke. The tech claims that he does not need the clips to continue troubleshooting the problem but Ford wont let him. Theyre mentioning the B word again (battery, lol) but testing has stopped until the harness issue gets fixed. Its a circus.

 

[triangles]

As much as I hate lawyers it might be worth consulting one about possibly suing Ford for breach of warranty under the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
https://www.carlemon.com/magnuson-moss-warranty-act-federal-lemon-law.html

 

[Guest]

As much as I hate lawyers it might be worth consulting one about possibly suing Ford for breach of warranty under the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
https://www.carlemon.com/magnuson-moss-warranty-act-federal-lemon-law.html

Yes, if the Ford CS girl had a nickel for every time I quoted Magnuson-Moss, she wouldnt need that job anymore. LOL. It very clearly states that something with a full warranty must be fixed in a timely manner or refunded or replaced. Its quite simple. But since Im not a lawyer, they dont seem to care.

 

[campfamily]

As much as I hate lawyers it might be worth consulting one about possibly suing Ford for breach of warranty under the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
https://www.carlemon.com/magnuson-moss-warranty-act-federal-lemon-law.html

Yes, if the Ford CS girl had a nickel for every time I quoted Magnuson-Moss, she wouldnt need that job anymore. LOL. It very clearly states that something with a full warranty must be fixed in a timely manner or refunded or replaced. Its quite simple. But since Im not a lawyer, they dont seem to care.

This is exactly why you should have a lawyer. I'm telling you, the first demand letter that they (Ford) get from a lawyer quoting legal statutes and legal precedence and possible damages (here in California, damages can be up to 3 times the original cost of the car), and they'll reconsider their position. So long as you have realistic expectations for the outcome (refund of your purchase price minus a reasonable cost for mileage since the purchase), you should come out good. Just make sure you don't pay any lawyers fees up front. And trust me, if the lawyer doesn't think they have an extremely high probability of prevailing, they won't take your case.

It's worth a call just to find out where you stand from a real professional, rather than an Internet pundit!!

 

[kinshi]

UPDATE:

Just renewed my loaner for the THIRD time now (3rd 28-day loaner period), I find out that Ford is making the dealer jump through all sorts of hoops, despite the fact the tech knows its the TCM, so they made them swap out a wire harness, that failed, then Ford made them swap out the PCM, they did, and that failed to fix it as well, so now its been a week and a half since that result was recorded and Ford cannot be bothered to review the dealer findings and call them back (still waiting on Ford to review the latest round of findings and approve the TCM replacement, and of course all the time it will take to ship all that, install, and test...and that is of course contingent on the parts availibility, as I have a hard time imagining Ford has a lot of spares lying around for such small vehicle production runs.)

The service manager is now engaging the Ford regional service manager to see if they can prod Ford into responding.

I am amazed at how unresponsive Ford is being, now I have the dealer whining a bit about how this warranty service is now costing them money too. (Ford made them eat the cost of the PCM since that is not under the factory 8 year/100k miles warranty for the "hybrid" parts, so the dealer had to pick that up under their own power train warranty. (despite the fact the tech knew the PCM was not going to fix the problem, but Ford forced it on them anyway in order to proceed with their warranty parts approvals)

I am thinking if I get the car back by Fall it will be a miracle. In the meantime, I keep racking up massive miles on the loaners they keep putting me in.

The upside is at least I am still driving a Ford Focus (the loaner), so I can sorta pretend I am driving my actual car and the MPG is decent (in a 2018 Focus gas now, last loaner was a 2017 Focus)...but man, the gas versions are gutless going up hills compared to the EV

 

[Guest]

Ah, 3 months in. I remember those times, full of optimism, interested in what was happening to my car. I had the same problem with ford not seeming like they were interested in fixing my car. Ah, the regional field rep, the hotline, communicating with "Dearborn". What a thrill it is. :roll: They have wasted over $30k in parts and labor not-fixing my car. :lol: Its like they have Larry, Moe, and Curley working on it. And the field rep is Shemp. And customer service is useless too. Maybe they will escalate your case. Oooh, sounds sexy. Well it aint and it accomplishes nothing. Just remember, those rental cars will keep ford from refunding you any payments in the end. So, take it out and beat it to death. :mrgreen: I hate Ford. So does my dealer, he even told me so.

 

[carbuff]

So, Im back after my account mysteriously being deleted. Yikes, must be the russian (ford) hackers at it again. My car is still at the dealer. After finally installing a new harness and not breaking the retaining tabs, (3rd times the charm), They are trying to justify replacing the battery. Dearborn sent the engineer with a special machine to hook up to the car to monitor the battery or something. They are in the process of driving it around to try and get a red ssn triangle. The yellow wrench light is on constantly (the same hybrid battery isolation circuit fault) But ford actually gave them permission to order the battery if they could get it to ssn. I would be surprized if it did, as it only ever did it when I went to start it, not while I was actually driving. I think though that ignoring the yellow wrench for a long time might trigger the ssn. There is also the chance that ford might ok the battery after reviewing all the info that the machine gathers from the car. I hope to find out more this week.

 

[carbuff]

UPDATE:

Just renewed my loaner for the THIRD time now (3rd 28-day loaner period), I find out that Ford is making the dealer jump through all sorts of hoops, despite the fact the tech knows its the TCM, so they made them swap out a wire harness, that failed, then Ford made them swap out the PCM, they did, and that failed to fix it as well, so now its been a week and a half since that result was recorded and Ford cannot be bothered to review the dealer findings and call them back (still waiting on Ford to review the latest round of findings and approve the TCM replacement, and of course all the time it will take to ship all that, install, and test...and that is of course contingent on the parts availibility, as I have a hard time imagining Ford has a lot of spares lying around for such small vehicle production runs.)

The service manager is now engaging the Ford regional service manager to see if they can prod Ford into responding.

I am amazed at how unresponsive Ford is being, now I have the dealer whining a bit about how this warranty service is now costing them money too. (Ford made them eat the cost of the PCM since that is not under the factory 8 year/100k miles warranty for the "hybrid" parts, so the dealer had to pick that up under their own power train warranty. (despite the fact the tech knew the PCM was not going to fix the problem, but Ford forced it on them anyway in order to proceed with their warranty parts approvals)

I am thinking if I get the car back by Fall it will be a miracle. In the meantime, I keep racking up massive miles on the loaners they keep putting me in.

The upside is at least I am still driving a Ford Focus (the loaner), so I can sorta pretend I am driving my actual car and the MPG is decent (in a 2018 Focus gas now, last loaner was a 2017 Focus)...but man, the gas versions are gutless going up hills compared to the EV

So,any progress on this? When they replaced my tcm, I was shocked at how fast it got to the dealer, just a few days. It was the month to install it that was the problem. :lol: And of course it ended up not being the problem but a $15k wild goose chase. They should have taken that money and bought me an off-lease 2017.

 

[carbuff]

So, it looks a though the special machine sent from Dearborn to diagnose my problem is turning out to be another willd goose chase. Shocking!!! My car will give them the wrench light indicating the fault every time they drive it but ford wants to see an ssn before they will replace the battery. So, its obvious that the car is broken and they cant return it to me but they cant fix it or wont fix it either. Hmm, what a conundrum. They need to buy it back, what a great idea. Maybe Ill mention that to them again. For the millionth time. LOL. No, but Ford really does suck.

 

[carbuff]

So, yesterday I spoke to the president of Sayville Ford, aka the Ford Giant, one of the largest volume Ford dealers in NY. She told me that I needed to get a lawyer and that Ford was not going to do anything for me. Imagine that, The president of one of the largest dealers in NY has no faith in the company she represents. What a sad state of affairs it is over at Ford when their own dealerships, representatives of their company, have no faith in them. Pathetic.

 

[tinilk]

Did *she* say the word "lawyer" with no prompting (or screaming fit) from you? If so that's kind of unbelievable.

Before this whole fiasco, I naively thought "under warranty" was sort of like insurance, meaning they'll fix your car back to its original condition reasonably quickly, at no cost to you. But in practice it means that Ford Corporate drags things out as long as they can and micromanages the dealership's every move by dictating exactly what will or won't be reimbursed. The strategy seems to be to keep this up until your car is no longer "under warranty" and then you're welcome to spend as much money as you like, having the dealership try replacing this $3500 part or replacing that $5000 part.

 

[virulent]

It makes me sad there are cases like yours that leave a dead FFE at the dealer for months and months.

My 2017 FFE died the first day I picked it up with 430 km on the odo. Week 1, the dealer was able to diagnose dead motor. New motor in shipment from Ford. Week 2, received new motor from Ford and swapped it. Car has been error-free since then. The report I received afterwards was shocking because of the amount of errors the car was throwing and that the dealer was able to so quickly triage the issue and obtain a replacement motor. Then I see the amount of crap people go through on here and the FB groups and understand I had a pretty unique experience with Ford

I hope they finally just replace the battery for you.. It seems like all of the "waited months" issues end up with a new 33.5 kWh battery at the end of it all, which might be a plus..

 

[carbuff]

Did *she* say the word "lawyer" with no prompting (or screaming fit) from you? If so that's kind of unbelievable.

Before this whole fiasco, I naively thought "under warranty" was sort of like insurance, meaning they'll fix your car back to its original condition reasonably quickly, at no cost to you. But in practice it means that Ford Corporate drags things out as long as they can and micromanages the dealership's every move by dictating exactly what will or won't be reimbursed. The strategy seems to be to keep this up until your car is no longer "under warranty" and then you're welcome to spend as much money as you like, having the dealership try replacing this $3500 part or replacing that $5000 part.

Yes, she did. She knows the deal I guess. But stay tuned, there appears to be a deal in the works. No thanks to Ford btw, all through the good graces of the Dealership. I will update this soon. And yes your assessment of the warranty situation with these cars is correct. It wont nickel and dime you after warranty. It will plain bankrupt you in one shot. LOL.

 

[triangles]

Carbuff IANAL but it sure sounds like you have a water tight case for breach of warranty. If successful I would think that means you get lawyer fees from ford, plus punitive damages then you can take all that money and put it toward a Tesla Model 3. Be finally done with Ford.