Car will not start

[Guest]

Yay you get a new battery! :roll:

I dont know what Im getting. They tested the car and it failed the test. This test was ordered by the ford field engineer. The 350v system is bleeding into the 12v system. There is a certain amount of bleed allowable until it trips the wrench light. then eventually, the ssn triangle. Well, my car is bleeding too much. LOL. Hopefully they decide the problem is inside the battery. They expect to have a decision from ford within the next couple of days. Oh, and they said it was unsafe to drive the car, which was unexpected, so Im driving a 2014 fusion, identical to my wifes car except for color. So, in a way Im back where I started, but theres really only one more component to replace (battery) so they should have a solution soon. Right.

 

[kalel14]

Ask if they could delivery the battery wrapped in a 2018 FFE.

 

[tinilk]

"Bleeding" what the heck does that mean. I think in electrical engineering the technical term is "insufficient insulation".

I went ahead and leased a Volt last week. We've been thinking about a longer-range 2nd car for awhile. After seeing the yellow wrench, just the thought of driving another rental gasser for months made me realize it's time.

 

[tinilk]

I finally got Forscan installed and connected. There are only 2 codes present during the scan, P0A0A and P2601.
(There are also 8 previously set DTCs which don't look like they're related -- ABS & TCU modules reporting low battery voltage and such.)

===BECM DTC P0A0A:00-8B===
Code: P0A0A - High Voltage System Inter-lock Circuit

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is On for this DTC

Module: Battery Energy Control Module
===END BECM===

===PCM DTC P2601:00-8F===
Code: P2601 - Coolant Pump Control Circuit Range/Performance

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is On for this DTC

Module: Powertrain Control Module
===END PCM===

 

[triangles]

Carbuff, sounds like a DC-DC converter failing maybe? Hopefully I'm wrong and it's the HV battery

 

[Guest]

Carbuff, sounds like a DC-DC converter failing maybe? Hopefully I'm wrong and it's the HV battery

Well, would the dc-dc converter be located in either the tcm (whole motor assembly too) or the sobdm? Both were replaced already.

 

[Guest]

I finally got Forscan installed and connected. There are only 2 codes present during the scan, P0A0A and P2601.
(There are also 8 previously set DTCs which don't look like they're related -- ABS & TCU modules reporting low battery voltage and such.)

===BECM DTC P0A0A:00-8B===
Code: P0A0A - High Voltage System Inter-lock Circuit

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is On for this DTC

Module: Battery Energy Control Module
===END BECM===

===PCM DTC P2601:00-8F===
Code: P2601 - Coolant Pump Control Circuit Range/Performance

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is On for this DTC

Module: Powertrain Control Module
===END PCM===

Well, if those 2 codes are present at the time that ford puts their scan tool on the car, it should be fairly easy for them to diagnose the problem. I would think. But maybe I should just stop doing that. LOL. I used the term bleeding as a layman's term. I think he said theres a floating ground between the 2 systems and the resistance between the 2 systems can only be 97k ohms or something like that, or it triggers the light, and his readings were way below that. So, it fails the engineers test.

 

[Guest]

"Bleeding" what the heck does that mean. I think in electrical engineering the technical term is "insufficient insulation".

I went ahead and leased a Volt last week. We've been thinking about a longer-range 2nd car for awhile. After seeing the yellow wrench, just the thought of driving another rental gasser for months made me realize it's time.

Funny you should mention the volt. In researching my problem I came across a bunch of stuff in the volt forum from a few years ago. This hybrid battery isolation circuit problem is common among many BEV type vehicles, volt, prius, etc. As Volts were getting older many owners were getting this code. Chevy's answer was to reprogram the software to change the threshold that turned the light on. Give that engineer a raise. LOL. Kind of like putting black tape over the dashboard light to fix the issue.

 

[tinilk]

As Volts were getting older many owners were getting this code. Chevy's answer was to reprogram the software to change the threshold that turned the light on. Give that engineer a raise. LOL. Kind of like putting black tape over the dashboard light to fix the issue.

At least their service bulletin didn't just say "pull fuse #59, return to customer." The thing that bugs me is EVs can be simple. (PHEVs maybe not so much.) There's no need for all these feedback loops, DTCs and computer modules all over the car. You should be able to buy an EV that's just a motor, motor controller, battery and a 12v converter to run everything else. Fix it yourself with a multimeter and some duct tape like the old VW Beetles could be fixed with a socket wrench and some baling wire.

 

[triangles]

The thing that bugs me is EVs can be simple. (PHEVs maybe not so much.) There's no need for all these feedback loops, DTCs and computer modules all over the car. You should be able to buy an EV that's just a motor, motor controller, battery and a 12v converter to run everything else. Fix it yourself with a multimeter and some duct tape like the old VW Beetles could be fixed with a socket wrench and some baling wire.

My FFE may become like that some day if it starts crapping out after the warranty. Especially if I decide to upgrade the battery at some point in the future.

 

[kinshi]

Well looks I just joined this illustrious group of "Stop Safely Now" people. I bought a used FFE 2013 w/ 35k miles on it from a local deal about 2 months ago, and it has already spent a month back at the dealer. So far they have not actually "fixed" a thing other than replace its original battery, and keep claiming they cannot reproduce the problem once it has been in the shop for a while (they confirm the fault once it is there, but then it goes away and they seem helpless to troubleshoot past that point).

My symptoms did not start with the SSN, it was simply I would get in the car, press the brake down, push the button, but no green "ready to drive light". They have re-flashed the cars software 3 times now, but the issue keeps coming back but for the first time now I am seeing the "Stop Safely Now" error on some attempts to start the car (never seen ti while driving)

I looked around under the hood, and under the car, and do not see any evidence of the fixes I have seen under the recall (this car was not from the areas listed). The dealer was under the impression this car has no recalls, but I see plenty here to say that is (and like others I have found the Ford dealer to be virtually clueless as to this car, their troubleshooting techniques thus far have no even been slightly out of the box, I even told them about this forums, but I get a sense they did not look).

Oddly enough, so far this issue only comes up for me after it has been plugged in at home using the L1 charger that came with it (plugged into a 110v outlet in my garage). At the dealer, they are always using a L2 charger, and whenever I made long trips with it, I was also stopping at L2 charge stations and charging up for 20 mins or so.

So this last time I got the car back from the dealer, I drove it home the ran some errands, then the next day drove it to work and back, then I was on the ferry dock in Seattle, and "eek no green light" but after letting people go around me and doing the open/closer door dance, I got it started, and then did not turn it off once on the ferry, but when I got home, turned it off, it would turn on again. Frustrated, I plugged it back into the charger at home, then went away for the weekend, and came back yesterday afternoon (car had now been on the charger for over 48 hours straight), I unplug, hop in, and it started right up, so I turn off again (not trusting that), and it started again, so I ran to the convenience store, came home, and all seemed well.

Note, when I came back from my trip, this was the first time I had ever seen the "Charge Complete" display show on the dash, and it showed 75 Mile range.

This morning, I hop in to try again, and nope, no start, and no "Charge Complete" display and the range sitting at 74 Miles this time (and the lights on the charger indicating no charging was taking place).

I then went ahead and disconnected the 12v battery, see if I could "reboot" the car, but that did not change anything, still no start after hooking it back up however I did measure the voltage on the 12v battery and it was showing just a hair above 12v with the car off, I have not tested with the car on, with accessories going, but I am suspecting based on others experiences that the 12v battery does not quite have enough juice to engage. (when I do try to start, I hear a loud whirr/humm but no start.)

Right now I have a charger on the 12v battery, it indicated that the 12v was at 90% charge when I started and am waiting on it to get to 100% then will try again.

I was wondering if my L1 charger is somehow simply not providing enough juice to replenish the main batteries, and the 12v battery (I got the impression from when I left it sit for the 48 hours on the charger, that it seemed like my 12v battery was not getting charged until the main battery was full.) I am going to get a L2 charger, as so far it has seemed when the car was on L2 chargers this simple was not happening.

Good news is the car is under warranty. I will update again once the 12v battery is topped off again. I am not quite ready to take it to the dealer again, as I also want to test my theory about the L1 home charger that the car came with vs a L2 charger/public charge station.

UPDATE:

Well the car is at the dealer for the THIRD time now, and they are finally replacing parts. According to the dealer tech, the motor is going to have to be replaced, as he identified some module up inside the motor that has to be replaced but its design such that only replacing the whole motor will do.

However, its been 28 days they have had the car so far, with at least another 3 weeks ahead, and the delay is all on Ford, as they keep requiring the dealer to jump though every intermediate troubleshooting step (aka all the cheaper for them potential fixes), despite the fact the dealer tech knows where the problem is. So, no choice but to wait on that process to wind its way through thanks to Ford bean counters insisting on following a checklist and ignoring the advice of both the dealer techs and their own engineers assisting the dealer techs. its really absurd.

I cannot help think if this is how Ford handles warranty problems with its passenger cars, its a good thing they are quitting the passenger car market.

I really do like the car (what little time I have gotten to spend behind the wheel)

The one upside in this 3rd service round, is I was able to force the car to star producing the error codes/Stop Safely Now warning all the time following my previous troubleshooting efforts (the service techs appear to be helpless w/o the codes, and given the nature of the Ford bean counters, they won't approve anything w/o being able to check the box that says "error code produced)

Anyway, if I am lucky, I will get to drive the car again in early August. In the mean time I have started with some calls into Ford to complain about this process, and maybe see about getting some compensation for car payments for a car that I have barely driven since I took possession. Who woulda thought that winding through the Tesla Model 3 wait list might have resulted in me having a drivrable EV car faster.

My saving grace here is I did not pay much for the Focus EV, and the dealer has me in a loaner Focus (gas), with unlimited milage for the duration (and oh yea i am racking the miles up on the loaner lol)

 

[Guest]

This is what they did to my car. The tcm was bad but its the whole motor assembly that gets replaced. News flash, it didnt fix my problem. I agree that the bigger problem is Fords inability to make any decisions in a timely manner. More than half of the down time is spent waiting on Ford corporate to make a decision. Its pathetic.

 

[scottt]

Just boggles my mind over the issues you guys are having with Ford. Mine was great. When I initially made the report, I was immediately offered a month's payment reimbursement. When it was found out that it would take 3 weeks to get a part, the payment was immediately increased. And so on from there. No hoops, no jumps required.

So very sorry that you guys aren't having the same experience.

 

[triangles]

Who woulda thought that winding through the Tesla Model 3 wait list might have resulted in me having a drivrable EV car faster.

My saving grace here is I did not pay much for the Focus EV, and the dealer has me in a loaner Focus (gas), with unlimited milage for the duration (and oh yea i am racking the miles up on the loaner lol)

You will love the TM3. It is a whole world of difference from the FFE. Getting in my FFE is kind of like the weird feeling you get when you drive an ICE car after having driven the FFE for a while. Not that the FFE is bad it's just different and a whole new level of awesomeness. Mostly the 99% one pedal driving. Unless you need to stop very fast you only ever hit the brake at single digit speeds to come to a complete stop. After 1,000 miles there still aren't hardly any marks on my brake rotors. The pleasant surprise I had was that Tesla gets your plates for you and you get them in the mail. That cost is included in the $1000 delivery fee! I didn't know this before picking my TM3 up and had been thinking about vanity plates. I guess that will have to wait till next year if I decide to get them. Getting back in my FFE does remind me where Ford did it right with the UI. I'm sorry but cramming everything into 1 touchscreen that you have to take your eyes off the road for is less than ideal. Also I hope Tesla improves the windshield wiper mechanism because the ones they're shipping now suck.

Are you keeping your FFE once you get your TM3? I kept mine since I still owe about what's I could get for it. I figure I have another 18 payments and I will still have a car that is still in like new condition as a spare. Plus we will use it to extend the life of my wife's car and use it for commuting / occasional errands.

 

[Guest]

So much for getting this solved before the weekend. I called the dealer after not hearing anything for a few days and sure enough ford is at it again with the slew of tests that have to be done, email results, wait for response, wash, rinse, repeat. They still have no explanation as to why the 2 codes for the headlight circuits always show up when theres the battery code. They never show up as present at time of scan but at this point Id think it might be related.

 

[Guest]

Ok, Im so done with this car. Theyre back to the usual random tests that have already been done ad-nauseum. Why they wont just buy the car back instead of sinking tens of thousands down this black hole, I dont know

 

[triangles]

Must be corp. policy to burn as many bridges with your customers as possible...

 

[campfamily]

Ok, Im so done with this car. Theyre back to the usual random tests that have already been done ad-nauseum. Why they wont just buy the car back instead of sinking tens of thousands down this black hole, I dont know

Lemon law attorney......

 

[triangles]

do any states have lemon laws that past the first 12-18 months?

 

[campfamily]

do any states have lemon laws that past the first 12-18 months?

I was part of a lemon law case a few years ago. What my attorney told me was that showing the vehicle was out of service for a certain period of time within the first 18 months would automatically qualify it for lemon status, and that anything beyond that it was up to the judge to determine, assuming it went to trial. Still being under factory warranty would, I think, help bolster that argument, that the manufacturer should be able to fix the vehicle and return it to full functionality.

I would think that Ford, faced with a formal request from an attorney asking for a buyout, would cut their losses and move on. Certainly would be worth a call to somebody who knows better.

BTW, I live in California. And, I still getting letters from lemon law attorneys who somehow know I owned the vehicle that I lemoned asking me if I'm having troubles with it, and if so, to contact them for possible legal action. And, the vehicle was built in 2004.

Keith