Stop Safely Now Warning

[Trielectric]

I live in Wilmington, NC. There is only 1 Ford dealer I can get to with my FFE,
Capital Ford of Wilmington. They are a branch of Capital Ford in Raleigh.
Per the County tax office I have the only FFE in our County.

 

[Elektra]

I live in Wilmington, NC. There is only 1 Ford dealer I can get to with my FFE,
Capital Ford of Wilmington. They are a branch of Capital Ford in Raleigh.
Per the County tax office I have the only FFE in our County.

http://www.ford.com/dealerships/locate/results/?gnav=footer-tools&zip=28403

There are 6 Ford dealers within 50 miles. If you're not happy with the one closest to you, take it to a different one.

 

[Trielectric]

Nice try.
I live in area code 28412.
I am 16 miles South, from the center, of area code 28403.
Jones Ford is almost 45 miles from my house, about 3/4
of which is 55 or 60 mph.
I haven't seen >69 miles of range from my car in more than a year
and I don't get that range on the 45-55mph roads around my house.
I'll repeat, the 36,000 mile warranty is up on my car.
What is covered in powertrain warranty of the FFE is pistons and camshafts and engines.
It does say the transmission in the book and the inverter is bolted to the top of the transmision and is in the transmission parts book. But the free ride on finding the problem is now my problem and expense until the fault can be found and agreed upon that it is covered by the weak powertrain warranty.

I am now at 15 SSN shutoff's in my FFE.

 

[brogult]

@Trielectric

The FFE will be the first car I've owned that I'll be getting a service contract on. Not necessarily because I won't be able to figure out a problem, but because the individual components are going to be expensive and rare. You won't be finding the drive inverter or battery management module at Autozone.

Do you want to try and figure it out on your own? I don't know what your comfort level is working on cars, but a cheap ELM327 USB/OBD2 interface and a download of ForScan (forscan.org, Windows beta) might do the trick. Actually, anything that can read a trouble code would get you started. I'd be happy to help and I have a service manual.

I've noticed that a lot of people with SSN recurrences say that the "fix" has been a new high voltage harness. I've worked at dealers (long ago) and replaced a few harnesses (not BEVs, obviously) myself. I've repaired many, many more. The usual reasons the factory wants a harness replacement are 1) they don't actually want to take the time to track down the exact problem or 2) they have a real quality issue--like the disintegrating engine harnesses on a whole slew of MBZ products. Even if that turns out the be the case, I'd be interested in knowing why--what faults lead to that.

 

[jmueller065]

What is covered in powertrain warranty of the FFE is pistons and camshafts and engines.
It does say the transmission in the book and the inverter is bolted to the top of the transmision and is in the transmission parts book. But the free ride on finding the problem is now my problem and expense until the fault can be found and agreed upon that it is covered by the weak powertrain warranty.

Are you sure about that? The FFE has an additional electric powertrain warranty for 100,000 miles:

Electric Component Warranty. Your vehicle’s unique electric components are covered
during the Electric Unique Component Coverage, which lasts for 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first.

I think you are still covered.

The above text comes from this brochure.

 

[brogult]

Are you sure about that? The FFE has an additional electric powertrain warranty for 100,000 miles:

My Warranty Guide (2014, p.11) lists the components included in the "Electric Unique Components Coverage" as:

high voltage battery packs, high voltage charger, DC-DC convertor, Electric Drive Module Assembly (includes electric motor and gearbox), trans range and charge cord.

There is a lot of stuff NOT included in that list. I'm not sure what a "trans range" is, but you'll see that there are essentially four components covered. It's not even completely clear that the "Electric Drive Module Assembly" includes the main power inverter, although I would hope that it would be included. Even more relevant to Trielectric's problem, diagnostics to determine the problem aren't going to be covered unless it ultimately turns out to be a failure of a covered component.

 

[NightHawk]

Are you sure about that? The FFE has an additional electric powertrain warranty for 100,000 miles:

My Warranty Guide (2014, p.11) lists the components included in the "Electric Unique Components Coverage" as:

high voltage battery packs, high voltage charger, DC-DC convertor, Electric Drive Module Assembly (includes electric motor and gearbox), trans range and charge cord.

There is a lot of stuff NOT included in that list. I'm not sure what a "trans range" is, but you'll see that there are essentially four components covered. It's not even completely clear that the "Electric Drive Module Assembly" includes the main power inverter, although I would hope that it would be included. Even more relevant to Trielectric's problem, diagnostics to determine the problem aren't going to be covered unless it ultimately turns out to be a failure of a covered component.

How about the wiring harness? That seems to be the item the Ford dealers tend to always replace for an SSN issue.
If they are going to do that, I would hope the wiring harness is covered by the 100,000mile/8year unique electric components coverage!

 

[brogult]

If they are going to do that, I would hope the wiring harness is covered by the 100,000mile/8year unique electric components coverage!

Hope if you wish, but it isn't on the list.....

We should all be prepared for these cars to become "abandonware". I doubt Ford is going to be terribly concerned with our post-warranty satisfaction, at least not the the point of spending lots of money and making sure dealers are well trained and equipped to repair these things efficiently and economically.

While it is in warranty, it is cheaper to throw money (in the form of expensive parts and harnesses) at occasional problems rather than develop some significant technical expertise. Out of warranty, it is even cheaper (for them) to throw YOUR money at the problems.

 

[WattsUp]

What is the best extended warranty to buy for the FFE then?

Anybody have any recommendation, or actual experience with one (with their FFE)?

 

[NightHawk]

Is there enough data on FFEs to determine if the wiring harness failure causing SSN errors always happens within the first year or so?
Would feel better if we knew that if an FFE doesn't get SSN errors within the initial 3 year full warranty, that the chance is near zero it will happen after that...

 

[mr23]

I would guess that one or more connections in the harness, or connection point(s) to components is oxidizing/corroding, and someone will need to dig in and test or inspect connections prior to removal, and or internals to the harness to determine a repair regimen. Could just be a clean and reassemble with noalox or similar.

Are there any components within the harness?

 

[steviet]

Has anyone experienced the SSN problem on a 2015 FFE?

Yes I just did this morning....

http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2766

 

[sefs]

What they're trying to fix with the harness replacement is the failure of the High Voltage Interlock pins in the main battery feed connector. There is really nothing wrong with the harness, but the little shorting pins are breaking their connections and causing the car to think you unplugged a high voltage connector. There are two HVIL circuits in the car. One is in the battery module. The other is in the TCM and is under the hood. The focus of the harness replacement is to try and correct the issue of the HVIL opening up. The HVIL is made up of one continuous circuit completed by pins in all of the high voltage connectors and the lid to the TCM. Should one of these pins not sit right, or develop some corrosion, the circuit will intermittently open and then cause the car to shut down. The reason it always comes right back after a reboot is that the car now sees the HVIL is closed and you're good to go. This doesn't set a persistent code. I've attached a photo of inside of the TCM. The green wires are the HVIL circuit. Note they go to all the connectors that are on the TCM. Note how small they are, and how they didn't even give enough slack for these not to be strained. So, unless there is a resistance to frame or line to line fault being caused (most likely not, or you wouldn't be able to restart your cars), they are replacing a $1k+ harness for $0.02 of shorting pins... TE connectivity (the manufacturer of these big orange connectors) doesn't even make this particular type any more except for Ford. It's an old model, and there are better ones out there now. TSB 15-0031 addresses cleaning these pins. I would have the dealer try that if you're having SSN issues.

 

[NightHawk]

What they're trying to fix with the harness replacement is the failure of the High Voltage Interlock pins in the main battery feed connector. There is really nothing wrong with the harness, but the little shorting pins are breaking their connections and causing the car to think you unplugged a high voltage connector. There are two HVIL circuits in the car. One is in the battery module. The other is in the TCM and is under the hood. The focus of the harness replacement is to try and correct the issue of the HVIL opening up. The HVIL is made up of one continuous circuit completed by pins in all of the high voltage connectors and the lid to the TCM. Should one of these pins not sit right, or develop some corrosion, the circuit will intermittently open and then cause the car to shut down. The reason it always comes right back after a reboot is that the car now sees the HVIL is closed and you're good to go. This doesn't set a persistent code. I've attached a photo of inside of the TCM. The green wires are the HVIL circuit. Note they go to all the connectors that are on the TCM. Note how small they are, and how they didn't even give enough slack for these not to be strained. So, unless there is a resistance to frame or line to line fault being caused (most likely not, or you wouldn't be able to restart your cars), they are replacing a $1k+ harness for $0.02 of shorting pins... TE connectivity (the manufacturer of these big orange connectors) doesn't even make this particular type any more except for Ford. It's an old model, and there are better ones out there now. TSB 15-0031 addresses cleaning these pins. I would have the dealer try that if you're having SSN issues.

Since this issue apparently has been going on for 3 years now, why hasn't Ford addressed it with a permanent solution like using the newer improved model shorting pins, giving more slack in the green wires, etc?
Replacing the expensive wiring harness seems like a bandaid not the real solution and soon many FFEs will be coming off the 3 year warranty and would become an expensive service cost if they keep doing that!
I would want Ford to have a real permanent solution to the SSN issue before I would buy the FFE for the long term, after my current 3 year lease ends.

 

[mr23]

What they're trying to fix with the harness replacement is...

sefs: thank you for this posting.

 

[JTCalif]

What they're trying to fix with the harness replacement is...

sefs: thank you for this posting.

sefs: I thank you too, for your time and insight.
My experience as an electrical engineer (retired) was in other types of equipment, and I am glad to learn.
To date, no SSN in our 3-year old car so am following this topic "just in case."

 

[sefs]

No problem guys. I just wish Ford would have provided better training for dealers and provide better tools to diagnose and fix the cars. The problems aren't earth shattering, but with no help from Ford, what can they do but try things here and there. Most dealers outside of Southern California will only see one of these cars, so they never really get good at fixing them. I too have not had a SSN on the road and I'm now up to 23.7k miles on the car.

 

[steviet]

No problem guys. I just wish Ford would have provided better training for dealers and provide better tools to diagnose and fix the cars. The problems aren't earth shattering, but with no help from Ford, what can they do but try things here and there. Most dealers outside of Southern California will only see one of these cars, so they never really get good at fixing them. I too have not had a SSN on the road and I'm now up to 23.7k miles on the car.

Being from Massachusetts, my optimism that they will find what caused my SSN is waning based on the number of vehicles they have actually had to diagnose and work on, as you pointed out. Thanks for your posts, I'm armed with more knowledge than before. The fact it doesn't log a persistent code is strange to me, when a check engine light comes on a code is logged.

 

[steviet]

To follow up on my SSN on the 2015 FFE, the dealership was very quick but thorough with the diagnosis and apparent resolution. They found a ground cable not tightened properly from the factory. I believe they were able to replicatie it cause I got a warning notification. Not entirely sure if they replicated it or the fault was created because of something the did in order to work on it safely. They have assured me that this was the problem. I'll pick up the car this eve and see how things go.

Steve

 

[Trielectric]

Are you sure about that? The FFE has an additional electric powertrain warranty for 100,000 miles:

My Warranty Guide (2014, p.11) lists the components included in the "Electric Unique Components Coverage" as:

high voltage battery packs, high voltage charger, DC-DC convertor, Electric Drive Module Assembly (includes electric motor and gearbox), trans range and charge cord.

There is a lot of stuff NOT included in that list. I'm not sure what a "trans range" is, but you'll see that there are essentially four components covered. It's not even completely clear that the "Electric Drive Module Assembly" includes the main power inverter, although I would hope that it would be included. Even more relevant to Trielectric's problem, diagnostics to determine the problem aren't going to be covered unless it ultimately turns out to be a failure of a covered component.

I found the 2014 Warranty Guide online. Big difference to us unlucky 2012 owners. Thanks.
Here is the 2012 Warranty Guide.
• The following Focus Electric parts are covered during this extended
coverage period: battery packs; high-voltage battery conditioning
pump, hoses, valves; charger and charge cord.
I had my last SSN event on 5/12/2015(17 total). No more since then!?
For info, a normal Emissions scan tool will not read our FFE on either of the 2 scan ports located under the FFE dash.